Wojo to this point....

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

There seems to be alot of complaints and angst towards Wojo.  I dont think they are completely unwarranted considered it is year 4.
However, in his defense year 4 sounds longer than it is given his particular situation.
In year 1, Wojo was truly left with nothing.  This situation was no way similar to the hand Buzz was dealt in year 1.

Then Wojo basically lost a year in what has occurred with his class that would be juniors this year.  I firmly believe if we had tracy Carter and Cheatam on this team that we would be in the NCaas.  Not only would they have brought maturity they would gave brought better perimeter defense which was our achilles heel.
Whether Wojo deserves a pass for basically losing the entire junior class or not i dont know. But his roster is not what he or anyone would hope for in year 4. The whole Elkenson issue was a mess n i dont even follow the guy.  Additionally he wouldnt be here any way so thats a non issue.  Nevertheless, if we were a little older with carter n cheatum i think the results are different.
So the real qwestion is was this just really bad luck or is Wojo the type of coach that cant keep players around? 
For a school like MU to be truly good we need to get old n stay old.  If Wojo is going to lose 3/4 of classes this is going to be impossible to do. 
So i will give Wojo a pass to this point, however his ability to recruit and keep talent will determine how his story at MU ends.  Collections of freshman and sophomores playing in Power 6 conferences with next to no junior or senior classes play innthe NIT or no tourney whatsoever (Unless ur Duke,UK, etc).  Thats just the way it is.  Get old n stay old Wojo, or hit the road.  I hope he is incredibly successful in doing this.

[#UnleashSean]

Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.

[Pakuni]

Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.

About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.

[Timber1]

The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.

Why?  Because some Australian blogger said he may leave?  Froling may transfer or he may go back to Australia, but there is no real indication that is going to happen other than pure speculation. 

He did play in the Depaul game at MSG, which I don't believe he would have if Wojo knew he was gone.

[Its DJOver]

About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.

I truly believe that this follows a cycle at most programs.  Because Sandy, Traci, and Hanni never finished their Junior year, minutes became available to the current Freshman.  Because they got a lot of minutes as Freshman, they (in theory) develop faster.  Thus, when they are Juniors and Seniors, there will be far fewer minutes for Freshman 2-3 years from now, they will get unhappy and be more likely to transfer.

How many programs other than the Dukes and Kentucky's of the world can say that they had 2 true freshman average 15+ minutes, another true freshman average 10+ minutes, and a redshirt sophomore average 25+ minutes.  Of those 4, only Sacar's minutes have a chance of going down, and even though I expect Matt will still start next year.  Theo should be getting 20+ minutes in 18-19.  This creates fewer minutes for next years incoming class, and the followings years.  Being able to convince young players that they will develop into starters/studs when they're upper classmen is an area that is underestimated in coaching.  This was probably the first time in Greg and Jamals life that they weren't head and shoulders above everyone athletically. 

EDIT: I expect Joey to be good enough to get minutes, I just don't see Brendan or Ike getting on the court unless they're playing with Cam in garbage time, same can be said for any 19-20 non PG.

[Loose Cannon]

Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.

With this, do you see him getting playing time during the NIT.

[connie]

The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.

It pretty well represents mine.  What, pray tell, do you think the MU BB Community thinks, and who makes up this community that I am apparently so far removed from?

[#UnleashSean]

Why?  Because some Australian blogger said he may leave?  Froling may transfer or he may go back to Australia, but there is no real indication that is going to happen other than pure speculation. 

He did play in the Depaul game at MSG, which I don't believe he would have if Wojo knew he was gone.

In the last 7 games hes achieved 3 DNP's and 18 total minutes. He has a Junior (Who I believe he is far better then) and a Freshman center in front of him, along with 2 more players who can play the exact same position as him coming in next year. He's not going to stay.

[#UnleashSean]

The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.

From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.

[Disco Hippie]

There seems to be alot of complaints and angst towards Wojo.  I dont think they are completely unwarranted considered it is year 4.
However, in his defense year 4 sounds longer than it is given his particular situation.
In year 1, Wojo was truly left with nothing.  This situation was no way similar to the hand Buzz was dealt in year 1.

Agreed!  Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.

Also agree about the importance of growing old.  I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop.  If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about.   I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season.  Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer.   If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.

[Its DJOver]

Agreed!  Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.

Also agree about the importance of growing old.  I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop.  If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about.   I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season.  Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer.   If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.

I was thinking that Sacar should head out West to the Desmond Howard training camp and be on his regiment. I've heard that he only accepts 2 applicants every year, but Sacar might know someone that could get him in.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.

Omg
I hope this whole post does not devolve along this moot point!!😡.  Clearly the issue as i stated was him losing 75%!!, had he lost only the one player, as was also clearly stated, i think we would be in the tourney. 
Mind boggling
If Wojo can bring 4 players in each year and we can lose 40% or less of them we can get old n stay old.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

In the last 7 games hes achieved 3 DNP's and 18 total minutes. He has a Junior (Who I believe he is far better then) and a Freshman center in front of him, along with 2 more players who can play the exact same position as him coming in next year. He's not going to stay.

Awfully confident statement.  If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave.  I am not quite as convinced.  Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman.  Big men take time to develop.  He could still carve out a role.  But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway.  But I am far from convinced that is the case. 

Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does.  This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him. 

[The Lens]

From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.

I'm on 3 different text strings about MU hoops. In total 11 different MU grads from the 90's & 00's.  All are very frustrated and none are yet sold on Wojo. Of them 7 are season ticket holders.  A handful of them have attended multiple B&G auctions / tip-off luncheons / private STH practices etc (ie engaged fans).

I tend to find scoop a haven for positive thought compared to my conversations with my "real world" friends.  I don't know about you but I don't come across nearly the amount of optimism  in real life as I do here.  It's one of the reasons I keep coming back to scoop.  It provides me some hope.

[Its DJOver]

Awfully confident statement.  If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave.  I am not quite as convinced.  Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman.  Big men take time to develop.  He could still carve out a role.  But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway.  But I am far from convinced that is the case. 

Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does.  This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him.

Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA.  Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO.  There are certainly still big minutes to be won.  We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.

[skianth16]

About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.

Does this change based on the size/caliber of program? I can see why guys would want to leave for greener pastures, like Rowsey did, but I doubt as many guys are leaving power 6 schools.

[skianth16]

Awfully confident statement.  If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave.  I am not quite as convinced.  Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman.  Big men take time to develop.  He could still carve out a role.  But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway.  But I am far from convinced that is the case. 

Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does.  This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him.

What was the context of him talking about playing pro? I feel like most players, especially younger guys, talk about wanting to play in the league, even if they don't have much of a chance. I guess I just don't think that a guy saying he wants to be in the NBA carries much weight.

[Hubert Davis]

Wojo must go. He is simply not getting it done.

Fire Wojo!!!!

Make Marquette basketball great again!

[Pakuni]

Does this change based on the size/caliber of program? I can see why guys would want to leave for greener pastures, like Rowsey did, but I doubt as many guys are leaving power 6 schools.

Power 6 programs that had multiple players transfer last year:
Duke
Pitt (wonder why?)
Virginia
Providence
St. John's
Maryland
Nebraska
Penn State
Rutgers
Oklahoma
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Utah
Alabama
Missouri
Mississippi
Texas A&M

25 other Power 6 programs had one transfer.
So, of 76 P6 programs, 25 percent had multiple transfers and 58 percent had at least one kid leave.

[Timber1]

From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.

I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.

[#UnleashSean]

I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.

I must have forgotten that no one who goes to Marquette games ever sets foot in a bar. 

[skianth16]

Power 6 programs that had multiple players transfer last year:
Duke
Pitt (wonder why?)
Virginia
Providence
St. John's
Maryland
Nebraska
Penn State
Rutgers
Oklahoma
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Utah
Alabama
Missouri
Mississippi
Texas A&M

Since there are only 19 teams listed here out of the 74 total, I would take that to show that power 6 schools are less affected by transfers since the national average is roughly 2 per team.

[TheREALwrk]

Agreed!  Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.

Also agree about the importance of growing old.  I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop.  If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about.   I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season.  Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer.   If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.

One of the most, if not the most, absurd statements I've ever read on Scoop.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

What was the context of him talking about playing pro? I feel like most players, especially younger guys, talk about wanting to play in the league, even if they don't have much of a chance. I guess I just don't think that a guy saying he wants to be in the NBA carries much weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ

This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark).  I've heard him mention it other places as well.

I agree - most guys who play high major D1 hopes have NBA aspirations.  The vast majority of them will never play a minute in the NBA.  But Harry has already sort of backed himself in a corner with a mid year transfer.  He cannot transfer again without burning another full year of eligibility, and leaving to go back to Australia would pretty much kill any chances he has of ever making the NBA (and forfeit a free education).  I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he left, but I think he'll stay. I also think he could be a pretty good player for us as a senior.