Depaul thoughts

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not a ton of comments on the Wintrust but all seem generally favorable. I was so-so on the arena.

First, an improvement over Allstate in that was built for basketball.

However, the concession layout (despite way understaffed) was very Allstate-ish. Certainly not club level.  All concessions were out in the hall, with no TVs.

The Blue Demon room reminded me of a grade school cafeteria. 

I didn't like the Uppers including the student porch.  They felt set too far back, more built for concerts.

The Lowers and Sky Boxes were great for hoops though. Great bathrooms. 

Was entry slow or parking bad?  I was at pregame and ingress was great via sky bridge. MU fans were late filling in.

All in all, meh. Mostly pluses but if our new arena is like this, we won't be pleased.

[Herman Cain]

Totally agree.  I think everyone is frustated by the loss.  I too was there and we had an outstanding MU home crowd.  Lately, Wojo has been the target of peoples frustration and i think at times well deserved.  Today i really dont believe so. 
First half if we simply rebound the ball and dont turn it over we are up 15+.  Now Wojo is ultimately in charge butmany of those turnovers were simply unforced and many if the rebounds were thru our hands. Wojo didnt tell them to fumble rebounds or too throw the ball away on half of our firt half breaks.
Second half Rowsey was terrible, wojo has stressed Rowsey as a pass first PG.  16 assists in our two wins, 1 today and many many stupid im going to put the team on my back shots.  Howard too, great shooter last year within the offense, this year a hero ball chucker. 
Whats Wojo gonna do bench them both?  And play whom?  Elliott and Cain?  They are Freshman matching up against bigger strionger upper classmen and struggled today.  No one clicked.  Wojo kept trying different things.  Went big, went small, tried zone, the zone didnt werk either.  Man defense was sufficient but could finish the possesions with boards.
We struggled offensively an howard and especially Rowsey decided to shoot us out of it. 
Alot of credit goes to Depaul, they had 6" and 20lbs and at least two yrs of experience on their matchup across the board today, on top of it and most importantly they played smarter than  us.  In a year or two sam, jamal, theo, joey, cain, morrow etc will all be older, stronger and smarter. 
I understand No one wants to give depaul any credit and the only reason we could have lost is because Wojo sucks.  But depaul does have BE players n they out played us today with physical n mental maturity. Coaches lose gamrs but not this one.

Glad you supported the program and went to the game.  Key point , the competition in our league  is worthy. Every possession is a battle. Our guys simply lost too many of the micro battles. Need to regroup and beat Georgetown now.

[Herman Cain]

Not a ton of comments on the Wintrust but all seem generally favorable. I was so-so on the arena.

First, an improvement over Allstate in that was built for basketball.

However, the concession layout (despite way understaffed) was very Allstate-ish. Certainly not club level.  All concessions were out in the hall, with no TVs.

The Blue Demon room reminded me of a grade school cafeteria. 

I didn't like the Uppers including the student porch.  They felt set too far back, more built for concerts.

The Lowers and Sky Boxes were great for hoops though. Great bathrooms. 

Was entry slow or parking bad?  I was at pregame and ingress was great via sky bridge. MU fans were late filling in.

All in all, meh. Mostly pluses but if our new arena is like this, we won't be pleased.

Thanks for the report. Over time I think this facility is a solid asset for DePaul.

[skianth16]

Thanks for the report. Over time I think this facility is a solid asset for DePaul.

From what I could tell, it's a decent arena when it's half full. Anything more than that makes it a pain to attend. Walkways outside the seating areas are small and crowded, and there isn't much room at the few concession areas, which makes it nearly impossible to get a beer or a hot dog. Any stadium that takes 20 minutes to work through the beer line is not going to make fans happy.

Kind of awful sound system too. Everything sounded tinny and way too loud coming out of those speakers. Jumbotron camera guy had a lot of weird, sorta creepy zoom ins on fans that weren't paying attention too. In general, it wasn't a great environment, in my opinion. Great area for an arena, but execution once you get through the doors was less than stellar.

[tower912]

They weren't prepared for the size of crowd that showed up.  Everyone tried to enter at the Indiana Cermak corner and there was a huge back up.  Finally, personnel started announcing you could go over to the hotel and enter via the sky walk.   Parking issues were exacerbated by two large events going on at McCormick place.

[MUfan12]

Thought the layout was garbage. There was enough room for 1.5 people to get through behind the concession lines. Sightlines seemed fine. Also, what is the point of having concourses above the seating area if you curtain them off during play? Sure hope they don't do that at the new arena.

[IrwinFletcher]

Marquette was up 35-28 early in the 2nd half.  Sam Hauser, the #2 3-point shooter in NCAA had a wide open look for a 3.

And missed.

DePaul went on a huge run after that to win the game.

If that shot goes in, maybe things turn out different.  Sometimes shots go in, sometimes they don't.

[tower912]

The freshmen played like freshmen in a conference road game.  Cain taking off on a turnover and nearly getting hit in the back by a pass from Theo.   Elliott falling over while dribbling. 
      Markus was clearly still limited.  Rowsey getting two fouls in the first 90 seconds forced him MH into too many minutes.

    Thick bodies going through thin, small bodies for rebounds.

  Sacar having a lead pass for a layup on a breakaway go off his fingers like a Lions wide receiver.
    MU will lose every game where they shoot that poorly.

[brewcity77]

In the second half against Creighton, the game against St John's, and the first half against DePaul, we went 1 midget and were the better team. In the second half against DePaul, we tried Rowsey and Howard together again and got decimated.

This was probably the most concerning game for me in the Wojo tenure, because he went away from what's been working and it cost us. Defensively, we got killed on the glass while our best rebounder sat. Maybe Froling wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know. Maybe giving Howard some rest and going with a longer lineup wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know. Maybe driving inside and not settling for threes wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know.

This wasn't just bad luck, this was going away from what's been working. Worse, it was going back to the tendencies that led to us losing games previously. My concern is that Wojo can't help himself from trying to make Howard and Rowsey work together when it hasn't been a recipe for success all season.

[Its DJOver]

In the second half against Creighton, the game against St John's, and the first half against DePaul, we went 1 midget and were the better team. In the second half against DePaul, we tried Rowsey and Howard together again and got decimated.

This was probably the most concerning game for me in the Wojo tenure, because he went away from what's been working and it cost us. Defensively, we got killed on the glass while our best rebounder sat. Maybe Froling wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know. Maybe giving Howard some rest and going with a longer lineup wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know. Maybe driving inside and not settling for threes wouldn't have helped, but we'll never know.

This wasn't just bad luck, this was going away from what's been working. Worse, it was going back to the tendencies that led to us losing games previously. My concern is that Wojo can't help himself from trying to make Howard and Rowsey work together when it hasn't been a recipe for success all season.

Normally id agree that the AR Markus line up is a concern, but the way DePaul was missing shots I can't fault wojo for rolling the dice and going with both at the same time. They're too good offensively, especially with Sam. Against DePaul betting that our best offensive lineup will just be able to outscore them is one if the safer bets. Unfortunately no bet is guaranteed.

[NickelDimer]

Normally id agree that the AR Markus line up is a concern, but the way DePaul was missing shots I can't fault wojo for rolling the dice and going with both at the same time. They're too good offensively, especially with Sam. Against DePaul betting that our best offensive lineup will just be able to outscore them is one if the safer bets. Unfortunately no bet is guaranteed.

I don't know how you can defend that decision. Inexcusable that Wojo reverted to his "comfort zone" lineup yesterday. He built a lead in the first half with only Howard on the floor and never went back to it in the second. Just a really poor job of coaching yesterday

[Its DJOver]

I don't know how you can defend that decision. Inexcusable that Wojo reverted to his "comfort zone" lineup yesterday. He built a lead in the first half with only Howard on the floor and never went back to it in the second. Just a really poor job of coaching yesterday

How many games have we had this year where Markus Andrew and Sam are all cold shooting? Our rebounding definently suffered by having both of them out there but betting on one of them getting got enough to carry us to a W is a pretty safe bet. Unfortunately it didn't happen.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

For all the idiots gnashing their teeth about markus and Rowsey playing together yesterday.  I am pretty certain they played leas than 10 minutes together. 
Again, frustarting to lose but most if the panic and babble has been inaccurate.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Wojo has now lost three games against DePaul in four seasons.  Buzz, in six seasons and nine games, lost only once.  Crean, in nine seasons and fifteen games, lost four times. 

Regardless of how any of us want to characterize the current state of the program (one more year, fire everyone, still rebuilding, staff learning, etc.), there needs to be a serious step back and look at the fact that we now have three losses to a program that has a conference winning percentage in the past thirteen years of .155%.  This is a serious red flag in my eyes.  DePaul's current team, as well as past teams, are both horrendous.

[brewcity77]

For all the idiots gnashing their teeth about markus and Rowsey playing together yesterday.  I am pretty certain they played leas than 10 minutes together. 
Again, frustarting to lose but most if the panic and babble has been inaccurate.

Markus played 16 first half minutes, 1 with Rowsey, who played 4 first half minutes.

Markus played 15 second half minutes, Rowsey played 19. So that's at least 14 minutes of second half overlap when it all went to hell.

Considering how we found success in the previous 4 halves of basketball, I just find that utterly confounding.

[T-Bone]

Hated Wintrust.
Have a second entrance, exit.
More concessions. People were still waiting 10 minutes into second half.
Bathrooms are half the size of Allstate.
Sight lines are much better.
Design seemed weird, why the breaks in the upper deck.

From what I heard, this wasn't yesterday where the lines were bad.

[WarriorDad]

Wojo has now lost three games against DePaul in four seasons.  Buzz, in six seasons and nine games, lost only once.  Crean, in nine seasons and fifteen games, lost four times. 

Regardless of how any of us want to characterize the current state of the program (one more year, fire everyone, still rebuilding, staff learning, etc.), there needs to be a serious step back and look at the fact that we now have three losses to a program that has a conference winning percentage in the past thirteen years of .155%.  This is a serious red flag in my eyes.  DePaul's current team, as well as past teams, are both horrendous.

Deeply flawed take, it actually matters if the opponent changes or not, how good they are, how good we are (rebuilds, etc).  Your analysis suggests Depaul is the same during that duration, which is crazy.  As an example, Depaul in three years of the Buzz era went 0-18, 1-17, 1-17 in the Big East and we still lost a game.

Let us look at the Ken Pom ratings since 2002 (first available) as our data source.

Crean Era (9-3 vs DP) = avg DePaul Ken Pom rating was 87.6.    (made NCAA tournament once, two losing conference seasons, rated between 50th and 170th.)
Williams Era (8-1 vs DP) = avg DePaul Ken Pom rating was 180  (0-18, twice at 1-17 in Big East, 10 conference wins total in 6 seasons, rated between 150th and 206th)
Wojo Era (5-3 vs DP) = avg DePaul Ken Pom rating is 154. (15 conference wins in 4 seasons, rated between 100th and 183rd)

Where I would agree with you is that Wojo needs to be doing better against DePaul, especially with an average rating of 154, but DePaul has not been the same team in each of these eras.


Updated with data

[GoldenWarrior11]

Deeply flawed take, it actually matters if the opponent changes or not, how good they are.  Your analysis suggests Depaul is the same during that duration, which is crazy.  As an example, back to back years Depaul went 1-17 in the Big East with Ken Pom ratings approaching 200's during some of those coaches you mention, and we still lost a game.

Let's take the New Big East only.  How many of those seasons did DePaul finish 9th or 10th, including this season?  If you go back to 2009, DePaul has had only one season where it did not finish either last place or second to last place. 

But let's continue to disregard the facts.  Crossing my fingers in hopes we don't lose to both the 9th (DePaul) and 10th (St. Johns) place teams again next year.

[WarriorDad]

Let's take the New Big East only.  How many of those seasons did DePaul finish 9th or 10th, including this season?  If you go back to 2009, DePaul has had only one season where it did not finish either last place or second to last place. 

But let's continue to disregard the facts.  Crossing my fingers in hopes we don't lose to both the 9th (DePaul) and 10th (St. Johns) place teams again next year.

Data updated above.  We have to do better, but I'd rather use Ken Pom data.  A 10th place finish one year might mean you are terrible, another year might mean you are mediocre and play in a difficult conference.  The Ken Pom data looks at complete picture for that season.

[GoldenDieners32]

Hate to say it but the season is over, no dancing for us this year unfortunately. Can't win games when your starting PG gets 2 fouls in the first 1:30 of the game. Can't rebound to save our lives. Embarrassing to lose to depaul

[WarriorDad]

Hate to say it but the season is over, no dancing for us this year unfortunately. Can't win games when your starting PG gets 2 fouls in the first 1:30 of the game. Can't rebound to save our lives. Embarrassing to lose to depaul

We will go to the NIT, gain additional experience and learn to play in a win or go home environment. 

[Lennys Tap]

We will go to the NIT, gain additional experience and learn to play in a win or go home environment.

#Crapshoot

[wadesworld]

I guess people will continue to ignore that Wojo started the second half with the lineup people are crying about him going away from and the fact that DePaul went on a run against that lineup.  Which is fine and fairly expected here.

[bilsu]

I came to the conclusion that MU players just are not tough. Much easier to throw up a three than to run offense. The team took the easy road and lost because of it.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Wojo has now lost three games against DePaul in four seasons.  Buzz, in six seasons and nine games, lost only once.  Crean, in nine seasons and fifteen games, lost four times. 

Regardless of how any of us want to characterize the current state of the program (one more year, fire everyone, still rebuilding, staff learning, etc.), there needs to be a serious step back and look at the fact that we now have three losses to a program that has a conference winning percentage in the past thirteen years of .155%.  This is a serious red flag in my eyes.  DePaul's current team, as well as past teams, are both horrendous.

Wojo can't get the team up for DePaul.  Why?  He seems to be lacking as a coach that he can't motivate the team or get them to play up.  Shame on Wojo.