9-9?

[jesmu84]

I was very adamant that 9-9 would be enough earlier in the year. I'm less confident now than I was. At the time, I thought beating Seton Hall would be enough of a "signature win" (they were #13 at the time) but they have since taken some major steps back. If we go 9-9, the numbers say we should be in compared to other teams. What I think is holding us back is that our Q1 wins (Hall x2, @Crei, @Prov) are not being seen as impressive enough. The bracket pundits seem to prefer some teams that have less but better Q1 wins.

2-1 with a loss to a 3 seed in the BET and I feel like there's a shot but will likely be NIT
3-1 with a win against SJU in the first round and a loss to Nova/X in the 2nd round and I feel a little better but may still be NIT
3-1 with a loss to Nova/X in our 2nd BET game and we're dancing

I'm confused. How are the 2nd/3rd scenarios different?

[79Warrior]

A lot of people, myself included, said this year would be a step back.  A lot of people, myself included, said NIT bid.

I expect significant improvement next year.  Top four in conference.  Around a five or six seen in NCAA.

Top 4 might be a stretch. Without a true PG this team will continue to struggle.

[GGGG]

Why do people keep saying our defense wasn't an issue?

Because they gave up an EFG of .398.  The second best percentage all year.  (Next to the first time they played DePaul.)

And they shot .474.  The third worst percentage all year.  (Next to Wichita and Georgia.)

I'm sure the reason they lost was OR%, but they have overcome that before with shooting.  Not today.

[GGGG]

When these are the expectations(regardless of circumstances), you know the program has taken a major nose dive. At Marquette, NIT appearances should be viewed as a major disappointment. Mike Deane once said that Marquette should be happy with NIT appearances, and that got him fired..Though back then, it was a different era for MU hoops, times HAD changed, until these last four years apparently...now we are back to the Mike Deane days, where NIT's should be celebrated. If you aren't in the NCAA's, the season was a disappointment, period. It's not like making the NCAA's is all that hard these days either. Not like it used to be anyway.

OK I get it.  You are just a better fan because you DEMAND MORE on a message board.  I EXPECT NOTHING SHORT OF A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR!!!!!

There.  Now I'm a good fan!!!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm confused. How are the 2nd/3rd scenarios different?

Ha, I didn't realize that they look like the same thing. I'll go back and specify. In the 3rd scenario I have us finishing with the 6 seed and beating the 3 seed.

[muguru]

OK I get it.  You are just a better fan because you DEMAND MORE on a message board.  I EXPECT NOTHING SHORT OF A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT YEAR!!!!!

There.  Now I'm a good fan!!!!

You never have been, nor will be a "good fan"...no matter what your expectations are. Don't worry, though I am only one voice, and one person, Bill Scholl knows my thoughts on it, and as a season ticket holder(and donor) for 14 years...I have told him losing is unacceptable. He may not care what I think(or if I pull my support), but it's not just message boards I demand more on..And if he hasn't paid attention to the poor student attendance the last couple of years, and the overall malaise from the fan base, the dropping of season tickets by many, he should, because there's only one reason for that...and even you should be able to figure out why that is Sultan.

[GGGG]

You never have been, nor will be a "good fan"...

I know.  I am so ashamed.

[muwarrior69]

Next year forward the expectation is NCAA Tournament every year. Of course there might be a one off year here or there, but we should be dancing just about every year and most years we should be doing so safely.

Next year specifically I expect top 4 in the BE and safely in the Tournament with a real chance to make the second weekend. Weird things happen so you never know, but we should have that potential and not just "our 3 shooters could all get red hot for 2 games," but more, "we're a top 20 team and if we play the way we have all year we could make a solid run."

The next year? Potential to be a top 10 team.

If we aren't anything making the Tournament the next two years it'll be time to move on as all that needs to be addressed is a single point guard and we should be where I think we can be.

I expect a Wojo to get it done.

I don't know. Even St. Johns, Georgetown and DePaul have bigger more athletic players. Adding Morrow, Joey and Bailey is not going to fix our defensive problems especially at guard.

[Herman Cain]

You never have been, nor will be a "good fan"...no matter what your expectations are. Don't worry, though I am only one voice, and one person, Bill Scholl knows my thoughts on it, and as a season ticket holder(and donor) for 14 years...I have told him losing is unacceptable. He may not care what I think(or if I pull my support), but it's not just message boards I demand more on..And if he hasn't paid attention to the poor student attendance the last couple of years, and the overall malaise from the fan base, the dropping of season tickets by many, he should, because there's only one reason for that...and even you should be able to figure out why that is Sultan.

Scholl is a good guy and very understanding of the nuances of college sports. He is also smart and knows his relative standing in the greater scheme of Marquette historically, President>Basketball Coach> AD. You should address your grievance to either Wojo or Lovell.

[Floorslapper]

Top 4 might be a stretch. Without a true PG this team will continue to struggle.

This will be the excuse used next year should we fail to be Top 4 BE, and solid 4-6 seed in NCAA. Yet we'll have Junior, Markus Howard who absolutely can be a great PG, so long as he figures out that fine line of being a shot first/pass second PG - that the shoot first mentality not get TOO out of balance.

[Jay Bee]

A lot of people, myself included, said this year would be a step back.  A lot of people, myself included, said NIT bid.

I expect significant improvement next year.  Top four in conference.  Around a five or six seen in NCAA.

Most reasonable post from you in a long time.  #SixSeen

[bilsu]

Why do people keep saying our defense wasn't an issue? We played DePaul. Defensive rebounding was atrocious (that's defense). Playing man without fouling was atrocious (that's defense). Obviously our offense was really bad but so was our d

Maybe it is the fact we only scored 62 points. DePaul only scored 70 points, which equaled the lowest amount of points we scored in the Big East this year up to today's game. We lost the game at the start of the second half when we settled for three point shots. We ran no real offense.

[wadesworld]

Maybe it is the fact we only scored 62 points. DePaul only scored 70 points, which equaled the lowest amount of points we scored in the Big East this year up to today's game. We lost the game at the start of the second half when we settled for three point shots. We ran no real offense.

Yup.

[Its DJOver]

If we don't extend the game, we give up less than 70.  If a poll were started 24 hours ago asking "If our D allows less than 70 do we win?" Can anyone honestly say that they think we lose?

[wadesworld]

If we don't extend the game, we give up less than 70.  If a poll were started 24 hours ago asking "If our D allows less than 70 do we win?" Can anyone honestly say that they think we lose?

Also yup.

The defense was certainly not the issue.

[NickelDimer]

And yet the defense was really bad. Rebounding. Defending without fouling etc. Bad. All bad

[Floorslapper]

Also yup.

The defense was certainly not the issue.

But we shot a better 2PT Fg and 3PT FG%, and our eFG% was better...and still lost.  Granted we weren't our prolific offensive juggernaut we usually are, but it would be nice to be able to win without the A+ Offensive game.

Our excessive fouling, borne out of the M2M midget defense, was a major factor in losing.  Just as was our inability to clear the defensive board.  Both of those components are part of playing defense.

[Lennys Tap]

A lot of people, myself included, said this year would be a step back.  A lot of people, myself included, said NIT bid.

I expect significant improvement next year.  Top four in conference.  Around a five or six seen in NCAA.

On October 5th in a thread titled "Expectations this year vs next" you wrote:

"I expect that we will struggle early, Scoop will melt down but that we will do well in the BE season and end up about where we were last year when all is said and done." Step back? NIT? Hmmm...appears instead that you were expecting a repeat of 2016-17 with a strong finish.

Regarding next year, you wrote:

"2018-19? Watch out..." Smaller nit to pick here, but for me anyway a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAA tournament is a little short of "watch out" territory.

[muguru]

On October 5th in a thread titled "Expectations this year vs next" you wrote:

"I expect that we will struggle early, Scoop will melt down but that we will do well in the BE season and end up about where we were last year when all is said and done." Step back? NIT? Hmmm...appears instead that you were expecting a repeat of 2016-17 with a strong finish.

Regarding next year, you wrote:

"2018-19? Watch out..." Smaller nit to pick here, but for me anyway a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAA tournament is a little short of "watch out" territory.

This is pure gold Lenny...Sultan=BUSTED

[wadesworld]

There is no metric that you will find that will suggest our defense was an issue today.

[auburnmarquette]

This will be the excuse used next year should we fail to be Top 4 BE, and solid 4-6 seed in NCAA. Yet we'll have Junior, Markus Howard who absolutely can be a great PG, so long as he figures out that fine line of being a shot first/pass second PG - that the shoot first mentality not get TOO out of balance.

Not just addressing this comment, but the whole "I'm not settling for losing" them some adopt.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2017/09/st-johns-most-likely-to-replace-mu-to.html

I picked us 72nd in the nation before this season, and even with today's loss, we are 53rd in kenpom. I don't see how you anyone would believe you improve or match a season in which you go from 6 to 2 upper classmen (though at the time of my projection we had Cheatham, so 3) - particularly losing Fischer inside (though the last several games of last year his shoulder seemed clearly an issue). I also don't see how anyone can believe going from 2 upper classman to 6 upper classmen next year does not make that the year.

This concept that fans "never settling for losing" somehow helps a team win seems like Alice and Wonderland to me. The more trashing of Crean, Buzz, Wojo, the students or whoever actually makes it more likely to fail to reach the next level because it creates a climate where the fans expectations are for Marquette to compete at the level of a Blue Blood program - and sorry we are not that. It seems to me some fans are still repeating 1991 when the young team was booed three years before delivering a Sweet 16 run.

We just came back from 16 down to win at Creighton, a place where Villanova lost today. Our incredibly young team has stumbled in some games but they also played as many regular season games against ranked teams (7) this season as Al McGuire faced in his first seven regular seasons combined (1 ranked team per season average) which includes the great NIT year in which Marquette didn't play a ranked team ever. (check me on the record book if I'm missing any).

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/recordbook_1011.pdf

I love Marquette's history so much I wrote a whole book covering every season, but this isn't the old days when an independent school could hide out and play one ranked team a season and have a great record every year. There are many more programs striving for the top and we are on a great path with a great coach, conference, TV coverage and fantastic recruiting outside of 5 stars which the recent FBI report makes clear have been very hard to get away from a few schools - so since the National Championships we have had to win without the Scooter and Rodney McCrays who were lured away.

Sure, maybe Al could have convinced top players like Ayton to come to Marquette and have his 28 points and 18 rebounds tonight for us instead, but it wasn't going to happen with another program talking about $100,000 payments.

Now I'm not saying young Wojo doesn't make mistakes.

Cheatham did not need to play, but that took care of itself.

Another post has well documented that the www.kenpom.com ratings with either Howard or Rowsey on the court and the other on the bench have Marquette in the top 10 in the country, but with both on the court, the defense suffers so much that we are just decent. That would be a huge problem if both were sophomores, but in the final few days of Rowsey's career having them rotate before Howard is the man next year should not be an issue and gives Marquette a chance in every game. But criticism like Marquette not getting big enough the day after a team overpowers us is not long-term planning, that's reacting to one game where a matchup mismatch didn't go our way and ignoring when matchups lead to the dominant shooting.

We hit only 8 of 27 three-pointers when our normal percentage would result in 11 of 27 and winning the game. It happens in basketball. Move on. NIT seems likely to me now unless we win these last two and then two in the Big East - unlikely with either Xavier or Villanova as the second game we'd need to win in the tournament, but if we fall a little short of that I believe the NIT would be a nice experience to get ready for what should be a nice NCAA team next year and if held together a fantastic 2020 much like 1994 was after 4 years of building.

Anyone who believes that by saying they don't settle for the NIT makes the team better in any way has a pretty glorified position of their words impact on the program.

Still reminds me of when Nick Saban came to Alabama's campus after a tough several years for the program and some of the "supporters who didn't settle for losing" came up to start to talk with him as he walked to practice and Saban said, "I don't have time for this ######" and walked to practice and basically kept the back seat drivers out while he ran the program and ti worked out quite well, unfortunately for me as an Auburn fan.

[GGGG]

On October 5th in a thread titled "Expectations this year vs next" you wrote:

"I expect that we will struggle early, Scoop will melt down but that we will do well in the BE season and end up about where we were last year when all is said and done." Step back? NIT? Hmmm...appears instead that you were expecting a repeat of 2016-17 with a strong finish.

Regarding next year, you wrote:

"2018-19? Watch out..." Smaller nit to pick here, but for me anyway a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAA tournament is a little short of "watch out" territory.

In the poll that was posted around that time, I voted NIT.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55000.msg967923#msg967923

And here is what I said after Lindenwood.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=post;msg=958051;topic=54746.75

Here is what I said after Purdue.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54299.msg930004#msg930004


So I guess you could blame me for being inconsistent.

[GGGG]

I have also change my signature and forum profile to make my expectations for next year very clear.  So that Lennys won't have to go through the effort of a search next year.

[tower912]

Not just addressing this comment, but the whole "I'm not settling for losing" them some adopt.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2017/09/st-johns-most-likely-to-replace-mu-to.html

I picked us 72nd in the nation before this season, and even with today's loss, we are 53rd in kenpom. I don't see how you anyone would believe you improve or match a season in which you go from 6 to 2 upper classmen (though at the time of my projection we had Cheatham, so 3) - particularly losing Fischer inside (though the last several games of last year his shoulder seemed clearly an issue). I also don't see how anyone can believe going from 2 upper classman to 6 upper classmen next year does not make that the year.

This concept that fans "never settling for losing" somehow helps a team win seems like Alice and Wonderland to me. The more trashing of Crean, Buzz, Wojo, the students or whoever actually makes it more likely to fail to reach the next level because it creates a climate where the fans expectations are for Marquette to compete at the level of a Blue Blood program - and sorry we are not that. It seems to me some fans are still repeating 1991 when the young team was booed three years before delivering a Sweet 16 run.

We just came back from 16 down to win at Creighton, a place where Villanova lost today. Our incredibly young team has stumbled in some games but they also played as many regular season games against ranked teams (7) this season as Al McGuire faced in his first seven regular seasons combined (1 ranked team per season average) which includes the great NIT year in which Marquette didn't play a ranked team ever. (check me on the record book if I'm missing any).

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/recordbook_1011.pdf

I love Marquette's history so much I wrote a whole book covering every season, but this isn't the old days when an independent school could hide out and play one ranked team a season and have a great record every year. There are many more programs striving for the top and we are on a great path with a great coach, conference, TV coverage and fantastic recruiting outside of 5 stars which the recent FBI report makes clear have been very hard to get away from a few schools - so since the National Championships we have had to win without the Scooter and Rodney McCrays who were lured away.

Sure, maybe Al could have convinced top players like Ayton to come to Marquette and have his 28 points and 18 rebounds tonight for us instead, but it wasn't going to happen with another program talking about $100,000 payments.

Now I'm not saying young Wojo doesn't make mistakes.

Cheatham did not need to play, but that took care of itself.

Another post has well documented that the www.kenpom.com ratings with either Howard or Rowsey on the court and the other on the bench have Marquette in the top 10 in the country, but with both on the court, the defense suffers so much that we are just decent. That would be a huge problem if both were sophomores, but in the final few days of Rowsey's career having them rotate before Howard is the man next year should not be an issue and gives Marquette a chance in every game. But criticism like Marquette not getting big enough the day after a team overpowers us is not long-term planning, that's reacting to one game where a matchup mismatch didn't go our way and ignoring when matchups lead to the dominant shooting.

We hit only 8 of 27 three-pointers when our normal percentage would result in 11 of 27 and winning the game. It happens in basketball. Move on. NIT seems likely to me now unless we win these last two and then two in the Big East - unlikely with either Xavier or Villanova as the second game we'd need to win in the tournament, but if we fall a little short of that I believe the NIT would be a nice experience to get ready for what should be a nice NCAA team next year and if held together a fantastic 2020 much like 1994 was after 4 years of building.

Anyone who believes that by saying they don't settle for the NIT makes the team better in any way has a pretty glorified position of their words impact on the program.

Still reminds me of when Nick Saban came to Alabama's campus after a tough several years for the program and some of the "supporters who didn't settle for losing" came up to start to talk with him as he walked to practice and Saban said, "I don't have time for this ######" and walked to practice and basically kept the back seat drivers out while he ran the program and ti worked out quite well, unfortunately for me as an Auburn fan.

An adult, mature, big picture perspective.

[Floorslapper]

There is no metric that you will find that will suggest our defense was an issue today.

33 FTs yielded. 19 offensive rebounds yielded. We won the eFG battle. 

FTs are yielded when a team is playing defense, correct?