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Author Topic: Our zone defense????  (Read 4076 times)

94Warrior

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Our zone defense????
« on: February 18, 2018, 12:48:11 AM »
We were dead in the water until being forced into playing zone.  And, I still don't think our zone is very good, there were gaping holes in it.  Creighton could have thrown lob after lob from the free throw line to the alley for uncontested dunks.  But, they couldn't execute, and thankfully left Epperson on the bench.  We had no answer for him in the alley.

I am stunned by how bad Creighton was against the zone.  Thankful, but stunned.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 01:14:45 AM by 94Warrior »

GoldenZebra

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 12:53:46 AM »
What was that? 

We were dead in the water until being forced into playing zone.  And, I don't think our zone is very good, there were gaping holes in it.  Creighton could have thrown lob after lob from the free throw line to the alley for uncontested dunks.  But, they couldn't execute, and thankfully left Epperson on the bench.  We had no answer for him in the alley.

I am stunned by how bad Creighton was against the zone.  Thankful, but stunned.

It will be interesting what happens in MKE...a team like Creighton isnt gonna be fooled twice. First time these two teams met I feel like we had some luck on our side. MU played very well down the stretch, showed some incredible fortitude. Hopefully it is enough to win out.

marquette09

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 01:07:53 AM »
The zone defense at St. John's was terrible last week.   I don't know what they did to fix it, but it was fantastic tonight!

94Warrior

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 01:14:06 AM »
The zone defense at St. John's was terrible last week.   I don't know what they did to fix it, but it was fantastic tonight!

I hope you are right, but somehow I feel like tonight was more about Creighton's lack of execution.

Regardless, I'll take the win. 

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 01:24:06 AM »
The zone defense at St. John's was terrible last week.   I don't know what they did to fix it, but it was fantastic tonight!

Dont feel that way, thought we should have stuck with it.  Was it great?, of course not, but it was far better than our man to man.  We have a good offense, if our defense is any better than utterly horrible we will probably win.  If we can keep teams in the 80s we will most likely win.  Not the 70s or 60s , but simply the 80s
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GGGG

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 08:01:54 AM »
I hope you are right, but somehow I feel like tonight was more about Creighton's lack of execution.

Regardless, I'll take the win. 


Two things.  The zone is helped tremendously when you have Sacar up top and either Jamal or Greg on the wing. 

Creighton's execution of the zone was poor.  No attempt at penetration by the dribble.  Only the pass.

So I think it was a combination of factors that lead to it working very well last night.

Warrior1969

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 08:15:03 AM »
Hmmm if the zone is even 10% better then man then go with the ZONE!

This is the first time they have really played zone for an extended period.....go back to practice and fix a few things and get better at it.

Most teams just do not like playing against the zone and are not used to it.

DCHoopster

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 08:26:06 AM »
I was out and did not see the first half.  I just laughed to myself saying again, Wojo must be to stubborn to play zone, they scored 53 points in the first half.  As I started watching the second half, the zone came into play.  Creighton started taking long threes and bad shots, which helped MU get back in the game.  The zone
was working, they were rebounding.  Hauser was getting a majority of them.  Cain was making some plays on the D end.  Sure there was some mistakes from Theo,
but Matt was much more active in the zone and it showed, his experience.  Then I saw Sacar doing something the other teams normally do, take advantage of a weaker defender and he schooled the kid, over and over again.  Nice to see.  Rowsey played like a point, Cain and Elliott made plays on the O end, big play under
2 minutes by Elliott and the 3 and tip in by Cain.  Overall, a nice victory.

Then there is Sam, steady Eddie.  Always there, made big plays on both ends.  His improvement from his freshman year to now has been really good.  As a freshman,
barely could dribble much less post a smaller player.  He did yesterday, and brought MU back into the game, nice job.

CreightonWarrior

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 09:06:22 AM »
The zone defense at St. John's was terrible last week.   I don't know what they did to fix it, but it was fantastic tonight!
I honestly have no idea why the zone isn’t put on Creighton every damn game. Mac is absolutely clueless on how to break it. It’s a very serious concern that is held by a lot of the Creighton fan base. Smart move by Wojo last night.

TheGym

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 09:37:01 AM »
Hmmm if the zone is even 10% better then man then go with the ZONE!

This is the first time they have really played zone for an extended period.....go back to practice and fix a few things and get better at it.

Most teams just do not like playing against the zone and are not used to it.

I agree, however the zone with two 5'10" guys at the top does not work.  Need some length to disrupt. 

It will be interesting against St. John's.  They are big and really should not have too much trouble with the zone.

DCHoopster

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 09:48:12 AM »
The zone is great if the team is not hitting there 3's.  Then MU was able to run a little and get some easier baskets.  But seeing teams get lay-up after lay-up, rather
see them lose from behind the line.  St. Johns is a bad match-up, but again rather see them lose from outside.  I would play some man but not much as Ponds ate
them up.  I think this is the hardest game left on the schedule.  DePaul MU matches up well, and last night as well.  GTown looks to be improving, but get them down
a little and they will fold, and does not handle pressure really well.  But very athletic.  It least now the games mean something.  If they had lost to Creighton, the
tournament was the only chance, and small chance at that.  Beat Creighton twice and Hall twice already, I would say they would get in.  All 3 teams have to start
winning, Creighton has Butley and Villy next, could be tied with MU with the same record, 8-8.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 10:17:23 AM »
Thank god Ronnie Harrell can't hit a 10 foot jumper,  he had that all game and missed 5 of them I think. Foster was also hungover last night, nothing good was happening for him
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Lighthouse 84

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 10:22:30 AM »
Thank god Ronnie Harrell can't hit a 10 foot jumper,  he had that all game and missed 5 of them I think. Foster was also hungover last night, nothing good was happening for him
True dat.  Heldt, or whoever is was guarding him at the time, laid off him and gave him that shot all game. He was hesitant to shoot and when he did, the shot looked hesitant as well. 
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Floorslapper

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 10:32:55 AM »

Two things.  The zone is helped tremendously when you have Sacar up top and either Jamal or Greg on the wing.

Creighton's execution of the zone was poor.  No attempt at penetration by the dribble.  Only the pass.

So I think it was a combination of factors that lead to it working very well last night.

This.  Jamal's length really shut down a lot of the activity on the right side of the floor for Creighton. 

The injury to Markus sucks, but I think it is a blessing in disguise (for the remainder of this year) as it forced Wojo into NOT playing Howard and Rowsey together.  Furthermore, Markus could get quite shot happy and his teammates weren't very involved offensively.  Thought the ball sharing was much better with NOT having both Rowsey and Howard on floor together.


GGGG

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:34:23 AM »
This.  Jamal's length really shut down a lot of the activity on the right side of the floor for Creighton. 

The injury to Markus sucks, but I think it is a blessing in disguise (for the remainder of this year) as it forced Wojo into NOT playing Howard and Rowsey together.  Furthermore, Markus could get quite shot happy and his teammates weren't very involved offensively.  Thought the ball sharing was much better with NOT having both Rowsey and Howard on floor together.


I think MU had just shy of 1.6 ppp in the second half.  Really helps that Sacar gives you another offensive threat.  Also helps with rebounding.

Floorslapper

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 10:37:36 AM »

I think MU had just shy of 1.6 ppp in the second half.  Really helps that Sacar gives you another offensive threat.  Also helps with rebounding.

For sure.

Also felt Sam Hauser got more sets designed for him to get ball in post, than was the norm with both Markus and Rowsey in game together.  Was good coaching move on Wojo's part to get Sam posted up frequently in second half.

MarquetteDano

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 10:39:46 AM »
The zone defense at St. John's was terrible last week.   I don't know what they did to fix it, but it was fantastic tonight!

Saint John's scored 8 points on nine possessions.  It was not that bad.  I am not sure if we played it the entire game it would have been as effective but it was no worse than our man.

Floorslapper

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 10:45:52 AM »
The zone is great if the team is not hitting there 3's.  Then MU was able to run a little and get some easier baskets. But seeing teams get lay-up after lay-up, rather
see them lose from behind the line.
  St. Johns is a bad match-up, but again rather see them lose from outside.  I would play some man but not much as Ponds ate
them up.  I think this is the hardest game left on the schedule.  DePaul MU matches up well, and last night as well.  GTown looks to be improving, but get them down
a little and they will fold, and does not handle pressure really well.  But very athletic.  It least now the games mean something.  If they had lost to Creighton, the
tournament was the only chance, and small chance at that.  Beat Creighton twice and Hall twice already, I would say they would get in.  All 3 teams have to start
winning, Creighton has Butley and Villy next, could be tied with MU with the same record, 8-8.

The constant lay up line run against Marquette's man to man defense has been beyond tiresome to watch for a whole season.  We are 322 in the country on 2pt FG defense.  Very simple defensive improvement for this team would be to just go zone ALL the time, and make teams beat you from the 3.  Live and die with teams beating you from behind the line, but you simply cannot let a team  shot 55% from 2pt FG all season long and expect to win games.

Zone also conserves energy, which helps all of our guys on the offensive end.  Rowsey played all 20 of the 2nd half, and was lively as ever right to the final buzzer.  If he's chasing his guy through ball screens and getting the crap knocked out of him on picks (as we saw against St. Johns), it affects your offensive game.

#zonefromhereonout

GGGG

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 10:50:34 AM »
I'm willing to give it a whirl.  Nothing to lose really.  Especially if they are going to have to go the rest of the way with only 8 players, two of whom can play nowhere else but the post.  Saves energy and fouls.

jsglow

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 11:42:02 AM »
Here's my thought on it.  If our zone defense only grades out at a D+ that'll be an improvement over the D- our man has been against anything other than a low block (Seton Hall) offense.  Our offense improves when we're not taking the ball out of the net on nearly every possession.  We employed it back in the early Wojo days with a team that was much, much weaker.  It wasn't perfect last night and our opponent will hit shots but at the margin I think it represents an improvement.

forgetful

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 11:53:03 AM »
Thank god Ronnie Harrell can't hit a 10 foot jumper,  he had that all game and missed 5 of them I think. Foster was also hungover last night, nothing good was happening for him

We played phenomenal to win last night, but your points here are spot on.  Our zone wasn't great, it was passable.  It worked because Foster couldn't make a 3 to save his life, and neither could anyone else besides Thomas. 

They got the same open 3's against the zone that they did against our M2M.  They just missed them. 

The zone did stop the 2-man game with Hegner/Epperson that killed us in the first half, but only because they didn't have to guard Harrell.  They left him open and defended the post/baseline and gave him 10-ft shots...he couldn't make them to save his life. 

Harrell makes a couple 10-footers, and/or Foster hits wide open 3's and the board is screaming fire Wojo.  But they missed them, and Wojo's gamble was brilliant (gutsy, smart).  Take the win, practice the zone and win out.

MU82

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 03:37:18 PM »
Most teams just do not like playing against the zone and are not used to it.

Either this isn't true ... or most coaches in the country are too stupid/stubborn to play zone.

It has to be one or the other, no?

I'm also in the "what have we got to lose because mtm isn't getting it done" camp. In addition, I am in the "our zone is better if we don't have both midgets in the game" camp.

However, if we play it Wed (with or without Markus) and fall behind by 20 because St. John's is driving the gaps in the zone, kicking out and hitting wide-open 3s, it will be interesting to see how many say how stupid we are for sticking with the zone.
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burger

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 03:47:52 PM »
When they are playing with the 2 small guards......

They should play a 3 2 instead of a 2 3......

Get some size at the top......2 3 with small guards leaves that top of the key 3 wide open......

That is the easiest shot on my estimation and shooter knows neither Rowsey or Howard would be able to effect the shot.....

I actually think a triangle and 2 with the two small guys trapping would "hide" them a bit......

Might as well try everything.....Our man has the opponents with a 60% EFG.....

That is not winnable basketball.....

tower912

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 04:21:39 PM »
Please list the teams currently playing a 3-2 so that I can watch and learn.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Our zone defense????
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 05:33:14 PM »
I am excited about the win and glad the zone worked. Am definitely open to trying it the rest of the way.

But...a quick history lesson.

We switched to the same zone against Villanova last season and it won us the game. We then went zone as our primary defense in the next 5 games....and went 1-4 during that stretch. We were also only playing 1 midget at a time most games. Then we played Xavier with Rowsey and Howard playing together most of the game in a man defense and we went 4-1 the rest of the way.

Now that doesn't mean that switching Markus and Rowsey and playing zone isn't the right move this season. Just pointing out that a strategy being successful in one game does not necessarily mean we will be successful going forward. Sometimes new things are successful because the other team doesn't scout or prepare for it.
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