How many big east coachs would you trade for?

[Galway Eagle]

I have no idea if this has ANY merit whatsoever....so take with a large grain of salt.

But I've heard that McDermott may not be squeaky clean. My original reaction was "that's BS"...but this particular person who is fairly well connected has mentioned it to me multiple times.  Again...I have no idea if there is any merit, just thought I'd mention it.

From a connected MU source or CU source?

[drewm88]

Seeing an uncommon name at the start of a poll made me check him out.    Checking him out led me to a thread he posted in 11 years ago.    Reading through that thread, I saw that I had used nearly the same language in 2007 to defend Crean that I am now using to defend Wojo.     Conclusions:    I like keeping the coaches we have.    I really turned on Crean over the next year.    I need a bigger vocabulary.

Followed that rabbit hole. What happened to Spiral?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

From a connected MU source or CU source?

Neither really.  A colleague that is best friends with a high major coach, and one that knows McDermott well.  The guy I know spends alot of time with this coach, and in doing is often exposed the talking head types, as well as other high major coaches. 

It very well may be nothing.  Just passing it along.  I think its BS, but McDermott did come from ISU.

[GGGG]

Neither really.  A colleague that is best friends with a high major coach, and one that knows McDermott well.  The guy I know spends alot of time with this coach, and in doing is often exposed the talking head types, as well as other high major coaches. 

It very well may be nothing.  Just passing it along.  I think its BS, but McDermott did come from ISU.

He was only at ISU for four years - and it was a pretty unsuccessful four years.  Pretty much a career outlier for him.

[skianth16]

For how good they are as coaches right now? Wright, Mack, Cooley, and McDermott.

For how good I think they can become in the future? Wright, Mack, Cooley.

I think Wojo will be a better coach than McD eventually. I think Wojo could match Cooley and possibly even Mack but will need to show a lot more to even to make that seem possible. Wright seems like a possible HOFer to me....and he's a classy motherFer.

Jordan has been impressive so far. I thought this Butler team would be a bubble team and finish 6th in the BEast and he has them playing at a higher level than that. I still think it's way too early to know for sure how he will end up. The Jordan Tucker kid is a nice mid-season pick up but the 2018 class is looking sparse. Let's see how he does over the next few years.

Ewing has done pretty well with a roster that most expected to only get 2 or 3 wins in the BEast. He only needs one more to surpass that and has kept in close in more games than I certainly thought they could. Still too early to tell how he will end up.

I think Wojo is already better than and will stay better than Willard, Leitao, and Mullen.

There a lot of posts about Wojo's potential to be good, but those posts don't really offer much in the way of specifics. From what I've seen, he's an above average recruiter, an inconsistent game-planner, a great offensive mind, and a terrible defensive teacher. To me, he seems like a pretty average coach that has the ability to get better than average players.

What about Wojo gives you the impression that he's got a high ceiling and is on track to be as good as proven coaches in (arguably) the most competitive basketball conference? Willard has done some good things at SH, even if it has been centered on a single recruiting class. He took a team to the tournament for the first time in 10+ years in 2015-16 and keeps going back now. McDermott is a very accomplished coach who has been to the tournament 7 times and has won a few conference championships and conference tournaments in his years as a head coach. I'd love for Wojo to get to this level, but the majority of NCAA coaches don't even come close to his resume.

Chris Mack might be the best coach in the conference, all due respect to Jay Wright. Mack has only missed the tournament once in his 8 years, and he's on track to play for a 1 seed this year. He's hit 20 wins in all but one season as well. His winning percentage is actually better than Wright's as well. The dude is impressive. To think Wojo can get to that level is hugely optimistic, not just for Wojo but for any coach. Chris Mack is elite. Wojo needs to do a whole heckuva lot more to be in the same conversation as Chris Mack. And that's no knock to Wojo; that's just how good Mack is.

[spiral97]

Followed that rabbit hole. What happened to Spiral?

Something happened to me? Why am I always the last to find these things out???

[brewcity77]

Wright, Mack, and Cooley to me look like the studs of the league. I think they have the stuff to win and win big. It wouldn't surprise me if Mack and Cooley managed to get to the Final Four or even cut down the nets once there in the next decade or so.

When it comes to Willard and McDermott, I think there's a ceiling. Willard will luck into a good class now and then, but I've seen nothing before this class and little to suggest after they are gone that he's anything but marginal. If he ever goes to the Final Four, I feel like it will be this year, and they would need an ideal draw to get there. McDermott is a very good coach, but doesn't seem to be able to get the type of players that can get you over the hump. He's been there the whole time and while both Xavier and Butler have landed some of those next level type guys (whether 3 or 4 stars) it seems like Creighton just keeps getting those guys in the middle.

Right now, Wojo is still a mystery. When you look at his ability to land players like Ellenson, Howard, the Hausers, and high-impact transfers to supplement the roster, I feel he can put the talent together to potentially win it all. I don't know that he can coach that well. The jury is out, but for me he's the guy who still has a high ceiling. If he can figure out the Xs and Os while putting the right system in placed, he might be able to take us to the next level. I'd take that over Willard or McDermott that I don't think have that potential.

[Herman Cain]

Mullin with wins over Duke and Nova......

[Galway Eagle]

Mullin with wins over Duke and Nova......

And losses to...

[jesmu84]

There a lot of posts about Wojo's potential to be good, but those posts don't really offer much in the way of specifics. From what I've seen, he's an above average recruiter, an inconsistent game-planner, a great offensive mind, and a terrible defensive teacher. To me, he seems like a pretty average coach that has the ability to get better than average players.

What about Wojo gives you the impression that he's got a high ceiling and is on track to be as good as proven coaches in (arguably) the most competitive basketball conference? Willard has done some good things at SH, even if it has been centered on a single recruiting class. He took a team to the tournament for the first time in 10+ years in 2015-16 and keeps going back now. McDermott is a very accomplished coach who has been to the tournament 7 times and has won a few conference championships and conference tournaments in his years as a head coach. I'd love for Wojo to get to this level, but the majority of NCAA coaches don't even come close to his resume.

Chris Mack might be the best coach in the conference, all due respect to Jay Wright. Mack has only missed the tournament once in his 8 years, and he's on track to play for a 1 seed this year. He's hit 20 wins in all but one season as well. His winning percentage is actually better than Wright's as well. The dude is impressive. To think Wojo can get to that level is hugely optimistic, not just for Wojo but for any coach. Chris Mack is elite. Wojo needs to do a whole heckuva lot more to be in the same conversation as Chris Mack. And that's no knock to Wojo; that's just how good Mack is.

So much wrong in this post, logic-wise, that I don't even know where to begin.

[skianth16]

So much wrong in this post, logic-wise, that I don't even know where to begin.

I'd be curious to see how you would begin to disagree with all the facts in there and the conclusions drawn from them.

[GB Warrior]

this poll assumes I wouldn't  trade him for most teams' assistant coaches

[drewm88]

Something happened to me? Why am I always the last to find these things out???

The reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated.

[jesmu84]

I'd be curious to see how you would begin to disagree with all the facts in there and the conclusions drawn from them.

For one, a coach's winning percentage and total wins is a big deal? Not saying wins aren't important, but then perhaps Wojo should schedule all cupcakes in the non-con. His wins and percentage would go up. Then you'd hold him in higher regard, according to what you posted.

[skianth16]

For one, a coach's winning percentage and total wins is a big deal? Not saying wins aren't important, but then perhaps Wojo should schedule all cupcakes in the non-con. His wins and percentage would go up. Then you'd hold him in higher regard, according to what you posted.

Given what we've seen from Xavier, I' pretty confident they're not cupcake-heavy. And neither is Nova. That's why I feel like it's not a crazy comparison between Mack and Wright. When you're comparing coaches in the same conference, especially coaches at top tier teams, it's a typically a pretty fair comparison. Maybe Mack loaded up on some bunnies that I'm not aware of, but I don't know X as a school that plays for total wins over SOS. I could be wrong. Until shown otherwise, I'll continue to think Mack has proven himself to be a top tier coach.

[jesmu84]

Given what we've seen from Xavier, I' pretty confident they're not cupcake-heavy. And neither is Nova. That's why I feel like it's not a crazy comparison between Mack and Wright. When you're comparing coaches in the same conference, especially coaches at top tier teams, it's a typically a pretty fair comparison. Maybe Mack loaded up on some bunnies that I'm not aware of, but I don't know X as a school that plays for total wins over SOS. I could be wrong. Until shown otherwise, I'll continue to think Mack has proven himself to be a top tier coach.

That's not what you said. You used total wins and percentage as marks for a coach being good.

Another one of your high standards is 1 NCAA appearance in 10 years

Quite the high bar to set.

Pretty sure wojo qualifies on your elite pantheon

[skianth16]

That's not what you said. You used total wins and percentage as marks for a coach being good.

Another one of your high standards is 1 NCAA appearance in 10 years

Quite the high bar to set.

Pretty sure wojo qualifies on your elite pantheon

I used wins/percentage for Chris Mack, whose body of work is known and well respected. If a coach in the SWAC had similar numbers, sure, different story. But with Mack it's a good barometer. And I used the first tournament appearance as a sign that Willard took a below average program and turned it into a competitive one. He'll likely have 3 in a row after this season, which I think is a pretty compelling argument that he's done some good things at Seton Hall.

If you want to completely ignore the context to make your point, that's your prerogative. It doesn't make your argument very strong, though.

[GGGG]

Willard has done some good things at Seton Hall.  But there is ZERO chance I trade Wojo for him.  A team with four seniors who play regularly, and a huge size advantage, looked near hopeless v. Marquette in two games this year. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

[Lennys Tap]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

Well put, Doc. Even handed description of where we stand and where we hope we're going.

[GGGG]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

Agreed.  Well stated all around.

[Galway Eagle]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

Did he actually promise a Big East title by year 5? Or is this something we've come to expect. Personally I'm fine if we have a season like X is having but end up second.

[MU82]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

Aside from also wondering if he really "promised" a Big East title as part of his "5-year plan," this is a very reasonable post. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

[Eldon]

We basically know the level of the experienced coaches at the top as they are what they are. We also know Leitao's level too. With Wojo, he is in HIS Year 2 of a rebuild as I have said (first two years were a transition which I maintain was mostly an opportunity of time missed). Next year will be the first year he will have balance AND experience, assuming no transfers out.

However, we have not seen the full potential or seen most of this balance even play at MU. It is ahead of us.  The Frosh and Harry have the chance to be good once they get more experience and the rust out. Ike, Bailey and Joey will have sat out long periods without playing. Morrow is good in practice we hear. A Graduate transfer PG to be named. Maybe three new starters in this bunch. 

More importantly, for the first time under Wojo, this actually looks more like a Big East roster.  But, there a lot of ifs yet in Year 5.

Matt Heldt will be the first Wojo high school recruit to graduate.

As a system coach, we know Wojo has a high powered offense and a low powered defense.

As a recruiter, it looks like he can recruit the Upper Midwest:  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Morrow is his first Illinois recruit.

Stan has brought in the West with Markus and Bailey.

He seems to have done well on the transfer wire.

He has swung and missed in the South and East with high schoolers (Traci and Haanf washed out).

Game prep seems so so. The second time through conference we seem to hit slumps. This will come with experience, including assistants. Not so sure strategy is his strength yet. Butler is a good example where MU has been ass whooped by similar talent.

In game, despite what others here feel, I think has been good. He is good out of time outs (except Providence). He has shown he will throw out game plans and adjust. He mixes up looks and uses his whole bench looking for the right combos. His first year may have been his best coaching job in this regard.

Program management.  Clean, on budget, decisive, achieving off the court, respects history and university, in line with administration, attendance up, new arena and practice facility. Communication is flat but improving. Occasionally, a bit hot headed which is good and bad. Maturing is a word to grade him here.

Results and ROI:  I would say a C in terms of achievement. Next year has to be the year where potential has to become real, which it seems it is headed. A ton of resources are being poured into this program and it's time for it to all come together in Year 5. His promise was a Big East title by next year. Excited to see the progress toward it.

He has everything at his disposal to hit the top tier of coaches, if not more resources. It is really all in on him to deliver. This is where excuses need to end--it is all there. He has the pedigree to do it.

Look at that post.  It's so bright, so beautiful. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]