How have we taken a step back?

[Marcus92]

Marquette has lost 4 in a row for the first time since Wojo's inaugural season. We're 3 games below .500 in conference play for the first time since this same week two years ago. What happened?

Experience
Last year, MU was led by 3 seniors (JaJuan Johnson, Katin Reinhardt, Luke Fischer) and a redshirt junior (Duane Wilson). Plus a junior in Andrew Rowsey. Not the most experienced team in college basketball, by any means. But a good core.

With the graduation of 3 seniors, and the transfers of Wilson and Haanif Cheatham, this team starts 4 sophomores, plays 3 freshmen off the bench, and has a grand total of 2 upper classmen (including our sole senior Rowsey). Right now we're seeing an inexperienced team.

Backcourt
Last season, the roster gave Wojo a lot of versatility at the 1, 2 and 3 spot. Markus, JJJ, Rowsey, Katin and Haanif all averaged 20+ minutes, with Duane just behind (16.4 mpg). Three of those players (JJJ, Duane and Haanif) were among our best defenders.

This year we're essentially a player short in the backcourt. Only 4 players average 20+ minutes (Markus, Rowsey, Sacar and Greg), with Jamal seeing more limited time (16.7 mpg). That gives Wojo fewer options to capitalize on matchups or make defensive substitutions. Plus, this backcourt is younger and less experienced.

Frontcourt
While Luke's defensive limitations were clear, he was still a very good shot blocker (Top 100 with a 7.2 Blk% last season). And he was nearly automatic when he got the ball inside, hitting an incredible 64.7% of his shots. That meant he often drew an extra defender, which opened up things for Markus, JJJ, Andrew, Katin, Sam, etc. Luke was also an elite offensive rebounder (48th in the country at 13.3%) and posted a career-high 16.3 DR%.

Harry Froling is an improvement on the defensive rebounding front (21.8 DR%) and he's a very good offensive rebounder (11.6 OR%). But the 3-headed monster of Harry, Theo and Matt doesn't yet measure up. Blocks are down, so is scoring. Without a consistent inside threat to worry about, opposing defenses can focus on stopping Markus, Andrew and Sam.

So what?
After somehow finding a way to get last year's schizophrenic team (Top 10 offense nationally, worst defensive team in the Big East) to the NCAA tournament, I don't question Wojo's coaching ability. That was a tremendous accomplishment in my book. Your results may vary.

I still believe he's building something here (despite the frustrations this season). Wojo is trying to raise the talent level, player by player, year by year. But bringing in the next Katin, year after year, to give us a one-year shot in the arm is a nearly impossible task. And transfers (Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, Sandy Cohen, Traci Carter, Duane Wilson, Haanif Cheatham) have hurt the team's on-court performance in the short term.

But the goal is that the new players coming in will be even better in the long term. They just need time to gain experience and develop their skills.

Anybody who says Wojo can't develop players must not be watching the same team. Remember when Sam averaged 8.8 ppg? Oh yeah, that was less than a year ago. Or when Theo fouled out in his first 3 games? He hasn't fouled out in his last 16 games. Markus has cut down on turnovers, Greg's become more efficient on offense, etc.

I'm as impatient as anyone to see a return to MU basketball's glory days. There's no way around the fact that they past four losses have taken the air out of the season. That's no reason to give up on Wojo or the program.

[tower912]

MU traded Luke, Katin, JjJ, Duane, and Haanif for Harry, Theo, Sacar, Greg, and Jamal.      A lot of experience, a lot of scoring, for a lot of youth and potential and more size.         

I really admire your measured reasoning in this post. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

What happened is we've played X and Nova 4 times.

Replace the 2nd Nova and X games with Depaul and St. Johns and we're probably 6-5, but we'd have 2 pretty much surefire losses still on the schedule. 

Perspective is always important.  But it doesn't make last weeks 2 losses any less painful.

[jesmu84]

MU traded Luke, Katin, JjJ, Duane, and Haanif for Harry, Theo, Sacar, Greg, and Jamal.      A lot of experience, a lot of scoring, for a lot of youth and potential and more size.         

I really admire your measured reasoning in this post.

That clearly isn't tolerated here.

#firewojo

[Its DJOver]

A lot of good things here, but I don't think the development has been as strong as you suggest.  Sams numbers were going to increase with a higher usage.  He was so efficient as a Freshman, that I think he is on a good trajectory to being a Senior stud.  Markus has cut down on the turnovers, but his scoring has been widely inconsistent, and his defense has arguably gotten worse.  I know you can't teach size, but he should still be better than he is. Theo and Greg have improved greatly during the season with the game slowing down for them, but many were saying similar things about Sandy/Haanifs Freshman year.  I have yet to see consistent year to year improvement by Wojo's players.  I want Wojo to do well, and still think the tournament this year is doable, but player development has not been his forte.

[GGGG]

A lot of good things here, but I don't think the development has been as strong as you suggest.  Sams numbers were going to increase with a higher usage. 

Sam's stats have improved regardless of usage.

[Its DJOver]

Sam's stats have improved regardless of usage.

Sam's stats may have increased, but you have to look at all of Wojo's players.
2014 Class:  Carlino wasn't around long enough for Wojo to have too  much of an effect on him, we knew he was gonna be a chucker and he was.  Sandy had a decent Freshman year but Wojo was never able to develop him into anything more than a Horizon League player.

2015 Class:  Henry,  see Carlino above.  Haanif, good Freshman year, Wojo didn't develop him.  Traci, good Freshman year, but wasn't able to develop, partly because Markus was taking his minutes, but still only a mid major player.  Matt, never going to be anything more than we though he was,  most of his improvement is on Todd Smith, not Wojo.  Sacar, has shown flashes, but with the minutes he gets, you would expect a red shirt sophomore to average more than 6 points.

2016 Class:  KR, see Carlino and Henry.  Markus and Sam have improved, shows hope for the future, but two out of eight isn't anything to write home about

2017 Class: We cannot yet say how Wojo develops this class until he gets another full summer with them, but I would say that the development of this class will save/ cost Wojo his job.  If they develop like Sandy and Haanif, then we will underachieve the next two years and Wojo will be gone.  If they develop, He'll be fine.  How will the be with another summer lifting and improving, IDk, but Wojo's track record has me nervous.

The only way that we would be experienced this year is if players didn't transfer.  Duane and Haanif would have helped this team defensively, but our record would be at most 1-2 games better right now.  Sandy and Traci would have no effect other than eating scholly's.

[jesmu84]

Sam's stats may have increased, but you have to look at all of Wojo's players.
2014 Class:  Carlino wasn't around long enough for Wojo to have too  much of an effect on him, we knew he was gonna be a chucker and he was.  Sandy had a decent Freshman year but Wojo was never able to develop him into anything more than a Horizon League player.

2015 Class:  Henry,  see Carlino above.  Haanif, good Freshman year, Wojo didn't develop him.  Traci, good Freshman year, but wasn't able to develop, partly because Markus was taking his minutes, but still only a mid major player.  Matt, never going to be anything more than we though he was,  most of his improvement is on Todd Smith, not Wojo.  Sacar, has shown flashes, but with the minutes he gets, you would expect a red shirt sophomore to average more than 6 points.

2016 Class:  KR, see Carlino and Henry.  Markus and Sam have improved, shows hope for the future, but two out of eight isn't anything to write home about

2017 Class: We cannot yet say how Wojo develops this class until he gets another full summer with them, but I would say that the development of this class will save/ cost Wojo his job.  If they develop like Sandy and Haanif, then we will underachieve the next two years and Wojo will be gone.  If they develop, He'll be fine.  How will the be with another summer lifting and improving, IDk, but Wojo's track record has me nervous.

The only way that we would be experienced this year is if players didn't transfer.  Duane and Haanif would have helped this team defensively, but our record would be at most 1-2 games better right now.  Sandy and Traci would have no effect other than eating scholly's.

"I don't care that I was wrong. And that you proved me wrong. Here's a bunch more information to support my original point that has nothing to do with what you said or what I said wrong."

[Stretchdeltsig]

We are young because Wojo is recruiting over, each year.  This discourages existing players, so they transfer out.  If Wojo continues this recruiting trend we will be perpetually young.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

We are young because Wojo is recruiting over, each year.  This discourages existing players, so they transfer out.  If Wojo continues this recruiting trend we will be perpetually young.

Lol, every team does this. Do you want him to stop recruiting players? 

[Its DJOver]

"I don't care that I was wrong. And that you proved me wrong. Here's a bunch more information to support my original point that has nothing to do with what you said or what I said wrong."

I admitted that I was wrong that Sam hasn't improved.  My point still stands that Wojo's player development track record leaves much to be desired.

[mug644]

...

2015 Class:  Henry,  see Carlino above.  Haanif, good Freshman year, Wojo didn't develop him.  Traci, good Freshman year, but wasn't able to develop, partly because Markus was taking his minutes, but still only a mid major player.  Matt, never going to be anything more than we though he was,  most of his improvement is on Todd Smith, not Wojo.  Sacar, has shown flashes, but with the minutes he gets, you would expect a red shirt sophomore to average more than 6 points.

...

I disagree with the bit about Matt. Yes, he has a relatively low ceiling, but I would argue that he's a pretty good example of Wojo being able to develop a big man. His footwork and positioning are so much better than freshman year; he's better with soft shots around the rim; and he doesn't foul nearly as much.

Again, he's no superstar but he has undoubtedly improved, and I give Wojo some credit for that.

[MerrittsMustache]

Lol, every team does this. Do you want him to stop recruiting players?

He doesn't need to stop recruiting players! He needs to stop recruiting good players. That's the only way to get average players the playing time they so rightly deserve!

[Its DJOver]

I disagree with the bit about Matt. Yes, he has a relatively low ceiling, but I would argue that he's a pretty good example of Wojo being able to develop a big man. His footwork and positioning are so much better than freshman year; he's better with soft shots around the rim; and he doesn't foul nearly as much.

Again, he's no superstar but he has undoubtedly improved, and I give Wojo some credit for that.

Even if you give Matt's improvement to Wojo, the sucess rate of players improving under Wojo is low.
Markus, Sam, Matt, JJJ all improved, kudos to Wojo.
Luke, Sandy, Duane, Traci, Haanif, and Sacar have not.
Rowseys points and assists have increased, but his shooting % and three point shooting % have both decreases, so I'll put him in the middle, with Carlino, Henry, and KR.
4 players have improved.
4 have either not had enough time with Wojo or have spun their wheels so can be considered mulligans.
6 have either not improved, or regressed, not including Wally who I don't think falls under any category.
I still think Wojo can get us there, but saying that we will for sure be better solely because of Freshman improvement is giving Wojo more credit than he deserves.

[mug644]

Even if you give Matt's improvement to Wojo, the sucess rate of players improving under Wojo is low.
Markus, Sam, Matt, JJJ all improved, kudos to Wojo.
Luke, Sandy, Duane, Traci, Haanif, and Sacar have not.
Rowseys points and assists have increased, but his shooting % and three point shooting % have both decreases, so I'll put him in the middle, with Carlino, Henry, and KR.
4 players have improved.
4 have either not had enough time with Wojo or have spun their wheels so can be considered mulligans.
6 have either not improved, or regressed, not including Wally who I don't think falls under any category.
I still think Wojo can get us there, but saying that we will for sure be better solely because of Freshman improvement is giving Wojo more credit than he deserves.

I'm guessing that you won't give up your position, but I simply disagree. Luke certainly improved. Sacar is much improved, having benefited from a red shirt year. Duane, while needing accept a smaller role, improved his defense and his efficiency.

Just because Sandy, Traci and Haanif (and Duane to some degree) saw that their role was going to be less than hoped for, and so they left does not immediately mean that they did not improve under Wojo. That said, I'll very much agree with you that Sandy and Haanif did not improve in ways that most had hoped.

[GooooMarquette]

Kinda hard to say Traci Carter didn't improve.  After his freshman season, a couple of pretty good guards named Rowsey and Howard showed up...so while Carter's stats went down slightly, it's hard to know how much was lack of improvement, and how much was an upgrade in surrounding players.  And he only played 8 games as a sophomore, then sat out the last two before break because of a sore knee. 

Not sure how you gauge improvement based on 8 games with different surrounding players....

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I actually wonder if lack of 'development' is really a recruiting miss....Woj has had his fair share.

To me that is a bigger driver of perpetually being young vs. development....that and making choices as well (Chief over Burton | Rowsey over Du | MH over Traci...there are more that have led to roster churn)

[Its DJOver]

Luke's numbers were  pretty consistent across his three years, they just came in higher than I think anyone anticipated.  Traci arrived the same time Andrew did and had a year to play against him in practice before any one us saw Andrew so he saw that Andrew was ahead of him and he was not developing fast enough to change that.  He did also transfer to a mid-major.  If Sacar has improved it has only been slightly.  I would expect a red-shirt sophomore guard getting 25 minutes to average more than 6 points, while shooting 60% from the line and 15% from threes.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in the fire Wojo camp. I think he is an above average recruiter.  I think he has shown improvement in his game development, both prep and in-game.  I just think his year to year player development is the weakest facet of his coaching ability.  I would love nothing more than for him along with Theo, Sacar, Jamal and Greg to prove me wrong.

[GGGG]

Luke improved across the board in almost every statistical category.  EFG, TR%, A%, OR, TO etc.

Sacar sees the floor.  Which means he is much better than he was two years ago.

Sandy and Haanif left after three semesters.  Traci left after one.  Pretty hard to blame Wojo for non-improvement there. 

[jaygall31]

Play Defense!

[Its DJOver]

Luke improved across the board in almost every statistical category.  EFG, TR%, A%, OR, TO etc.

Sacar sees the floor.  Which means he is much better than he was two years ago.

Sandy and Haanif left after three semesters.  Traci left after one.  Pretty hard to blame Wojo for non-improvement there. 

If Luke was so much better, his minutes wouldn't have dropped.  Sandy, Haanif and Traci were all here for three semesters, plus summer school before their Freshman year.  If they can't show improvement in their first two offseasons with the team, I'm not very optimistic that they would have made a huge jump with one or two more.  As for Sacar, I guess 6ppg is better than 0 so you're right there, but that's not the level of improvement I think we should expect after three years with the team.  Once again not saying Wojo is bad, just that this is his most inconsistent and weakest area.

[Galway Eagle]

If Luke was so much better, his minutes wouldn't have dropped.  Sandy, Haanif and Traci were all here for three semesters, plus summer school before their Freshman year.  If they can't show improvement in their first two offseasons with the team, I'm not very optimistic that they would have made a huge jump with one or two more.  As for Sacar, I guess 6ppg is better than 0 so you're right there, but that's not the level of improvement I think we should expect after three years with the team.  Once again not saying Wojo is bad, just that this is his most inconsistent and weakest area.

Sacar is at best option 4 maybe 5. There's not exactly loads of room for him to contribute on Offense

[Its DJOver]

Sacar is at best option 4 maybe 5. There's not exactly loads of room for him to contribute on Offense

Considering one of Markus and Andrew is almost always in foul trouble that moves him up one spot.  Also before hitting a 3 against PC and one in garbage time against BU he would not shoot outside the arc under any circumstance, and he has still only hit three on the year (I believe he hit one in Maui). He was getting the Derrick treatment on D, which also hurt his ability to drive further hindering his offensive abilities.  If he can develop an outside shot I think it would open up so much more for him.  IMHO the best thing for him to do this offseason if go to Arizona with Markus and Jordan and do whatever Desmond has them do, because with the overall level of D improving, if he can't score more consistently his minutes will drop.   

[lurch91]

We are young because Wojo is recruiting over, each year.  This discourages existing players, so they transfer out.  If Wojo continues this recruiting trend we will be perpetually young.

Is the answer to recruit progressively worse players to make sure your upper classman play.....?

[jesmu84]

Considering one of Markus and Andrew is almost always in foul trouble that moves him up one spot.  Also before hitting a 3 against PC and one in garbage time against BU he would not shoot outside the arc under any circumstance, and he has still only hit three on the year (I believe he hit one in Maui). He was getting the Derrick treatment on D, which also hurt his ability to drive further hindering his offensive abilities.  If he can develop an outside shot I think it would open up so much more for him.  IMHO the best thing for him to do this offseason if go to Arizona with Markus and Jordan and do whatever Desmond has them do, because with the overall level of D improving, if he can't score more consistently his minutes will drop.

...Ners...? Is that you?