What a night!

[jesmu84]

My post title is in reference to the absolute garbage threads that have been started. Wojo made NCAA last year. May miss this year. But continues to trend up from where he started. And continues to recruit at an elite level.

I'm 100% on board for the long haul

[GooooMarquette]

I'm all in too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm in until next season. If we aren't comfortably in the tournament next year than Wojo will have not met my personal expectations...and the expectations that I believe he sold the university on in his 5 year plan. If he doesn't make expectations, he will probably get the sixth year to rectify, but it his butt will be pretty toasty.

[skianth16]

My post title is in reference to the absolute garbage threads that have been started. Wojo made NCAA last year. May miss this year. But continues to trend up from where he started. And continues to recruit at an elite level.

I'm 100% on board for the long haul

Well, Wojo didn't exactly start in a competitive environment. Getting the program to a winning record isn't exactly the bar we want to set. Trending upward isn't much of an accomplishment from his starting point.

2 weeks ago, we looked to be a lock for a tourney bid; now we're in a really bad spot. Wojo has had flashes where he's been good, but he's tripped up a lot in his first 4 years. We can't even pull out a must-win game at home. We just aren't the same caliber program we were prior to his arrival. That sucks for the fans. Period.

[D'Lo Brown]

I'm in until next season. If we aren't comfortably in the tournament next year than Wojo will have not met my personal expectations...and the expectations that I believe he sold the university on in his 5 year plan. If he doesn't make expectations, he will probably get the sixth year to rectify, but it his butt will be pretty toasty.

You are very reasoned... I haven't really ever stopped to wonder where I stand on it, but I trust your knowledge/judgment. I hope the university also takes a reasoned approach...

Also, it's hard to agree with someone that from the beginning wanted Wojo fired, and only seem to crop up when we lose or mistakes occur. You can't just lie and wait for things that only support your "argument" and ignore all else.

[curbina]

I don't think that Marquette Basketball is trending up, more like a major pullback that is needs to be shorted!

[jesmu84]

We just aren't the same caliber program we were prior to his arrival. That sucks for the fans. Period.

Really? Are we remembering Buzz's last year differently?

[NickelDimer]

Really? Are we remembering Buzz's last year differently?

Nothing like using the exception and painting it the rule

[wadesworld]

Nothing like using the exception and painting it the rule

I mean, MU was 17-15 the year before Wojo got the job.  You can't really hold Wojo to some standard and then ignore what he was given to start at.

[NickelDimer]

I mean, MU was 17-15 the year before Wojo got the job.  You can't really hold Wojo to some standard and then ignore what he was given to start at.

That's beside the point though. No one can say we're at the caliber under Wojo that we were before Wojo. Lots of reasons(excuses?) for that but the point remains

[wadesworld]

That's beside the point though. No one can say we're at the caliber under Wojo that we were before Wojo. Lots of reasons(excuses?) for that but the point remains

Then we also weren't at the caliber that we were before Wojo...well, before Wojo.

If people can't see that Wojo took over a roster that had 0 high major caliber contributors in year one and look at the roster that is set to be here next season and see the progress being made by Wojo then there's nothing worth debating.

Thankfully the people in charge of making important decisions at Marquette do see the progress being made.

[NickelDimer]

Then we also weren't at the caliber that we were before Wojo...well, before Wojo

huh?

[wadesworld]

huh?

Exactly. Before Wojo we were 17-15. So if that's not what we were "before Wojo" then neither was whatever we were "before Wojo."

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

huh?

Buzz packed it in mid season and left us with Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson and an undeveloped JJJ to leave the charge.

Without Car3no (A Wojo recruit) that team doesn't win double digit games. Same thing next year, Wojo had nothing because Hill and Shayok bailed but still got Hank.

Last year, we saw a ridiculously improved JJJ while starting two freshman and made he NCAA. This year is bad, but if you're going to rip Wojo a new one this year, you have to give him credit for last season.

[TheyWereCones]

I'm in until next season. If we aren't comfortably in the tournament next year than Wojo will have not met my personal expectations...and the expectations that I believe he sold the university on in his 5 year plan. If he doesn't make expectations, he will probably get the sixth year to rectify, but it his butt will be pretty toasty.

I agree with this 100%. I have zero issues with the players he's brought in (although I think there is a glaring PG hole right now). I have many other concerns about his actual coaching ability. Next year will be all his players (again) but with a roster that on paper should be a tournament lock.

[NickelDimer]

Exactly. Before Wojo we were 17-15. So if that's not what we were "before Wojo" then neither was whatever we were "before Wojo."

Buzz's entire tenure is what we were "before Wojo" and he hasn't come close to that standard. Buzz's one poor season doesn't define the level of our program reached under him

[muwarrior69]

I'm in until next season. If we aren't comfortably in the tournament next year than Wojo will have not met my personal expectations...and the expectations that I believe he sold the university on in his 5 year plan. If he doesn't make expectations, he will probably get the sixth year to rectify, but it his butt will be pretty toasty.

Do you think Haanif could have made a difference if he stayed? I mean we only lost by 2 today and the games against X and Nova at home were within 1 or two possessions. I think his defense could have made the difference in one or two games this season, but what do I know.

[GrimmReaper33]

Then we also weren't at the caliber that we were before Wojo...well, before Wojo.

If people can't see that Wojo took over a roster that had 0 high major caliber contributors in year one and look at the roster that is set to be here next season and see the progress being made by Wojo then there's nothing worth debating.

Thankfully the people in charge of making important decisions at Marquette do see the progress being made.

This is quite the exaggeration.  When Wojo took over he had a top 10 recruiting class that was entering their sophomore year.  Once Luke joined for the 2nd half of the season, that team had something like 6 or 7 top 100 recruits on that roster.  Wojo's 2nd year we had a 5 star one and done along with something like 6 top 100 recruits. 

How many top 100 recruits have come through Marquette in the last 4 seasons?  How many programs in the country have had more?  Maybe 10-15?  It looks like there's going to be one NCAA tourney game to show for it over 4 years.  IMO, each and every one of Wojo's teams have underachieved just based on the raw talent we've had.

Next year should be better, but a lot is going to depend on who they are able to land for another guard.  I see the possibility of another unbalanced roster.

[jesmu84]

So all of you arguing Buzz's last season was a one-off and not the beginning of a trend are confident to say if buzz would have stayed, that the next season he would have had that team in the NCAA?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do you think Haanif could have made a difference if he stayed? I mean we only lost by 2 today and the games against X and Nova at home were within 1 or two possessions. I think his defense could have made the difference in one or two games this season, but what do I know.

Personally I agree with you. While not a PG, he was a tall guard who could at least be counted on to help with the press. While not a lockdown defender, I think he was a the 3rd best defender on this team (not saying much) and could have been worth a few points in all of our games. He could have given us two or three more wins. Or might not of. All academic at this point

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So all of you arguing Buzz's last season was a one-off and not the beginning of a trend are confident to say if buzz would have stayed, that the next season he would have had that team in the NCAA?

I have wondered this often. What would have Buzz' next season have looked like if he stayed?

You keep the 2015 recruiting class, specifically Ahmed Hill and Marial Shayok who both ended up being nice players. I have heard from multiple people that JJJ and Teve were gone if Buzz stayed. Mayo would have still been given the boot. I think Deonte still leaves after his mother passes....not sure about Dawson. I think he thought a new coach would play him in front of Derrick and transferred when he realized that wasn't happening. If that's true, than he probably wouldn't stick around a second year knowing Buzz was going to start Derrick. Does Car3no still come here? My understanding is that it was more his family MU connection than specifically Wojo that got him to MU.


Lineup would have probably looked like:

PG: Derrick Wilson
SG: Car3no (no guarantee he still comes here but for this exercise let's say it was his family connection that got him here)
SF: Ahmed Hill
PF: Juan Anderson
C: Luke Fischer (no idea who would have started first semester)

Bench:
Duane Wilson (started Hill and Juan over him for size)
Marial Shayok
Sandy Cohen
Satchel Pierce

The roster seems too small, too shallow, and not talented enough to go dancing to me. But I have no idea if those four transfers would actually happen or not. No way of knowing. We also have no idea what (if any) grad transfers, late blooming freshmen, or jucos Buzz would have landed to replace JJJ and Teve's schollies.

I think this hypothetical Buzz squad would have definitely been better than Wojo's first squad....but I still think they miss the NCAA...probably the NIT too.

[muguru]

So all of you arguing Buzz's last season was a one-off and not the beginning of a trend are confident to say if buzz would have stayed, that the next season he would have had that team in the NCAA?

Is anyone going to argue that Buzz has done a better job at Va Tech in his time there, then Wojo has at MU in the same time frame?? Buzz didn't exactly have a who's who of talent at Va Tech when he took over either.

[Goose]

TAMU

You will be in the Wojo bandwagon twenty years from now. I have no problem with that, but you are a Wojo homer at the highest level.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

You will be in the Wojo bandwagon twenty years from now. I have no problem with that, but you are a Wojo homer at the highest level.

You have either mistaken me or are calling me a liar. The only way I am on the Wojo bandwagon in 20 years is if we have been enjoying two decades of elite level MU basketball and Wojo has somehow not been hired away in that time.

Let me be as clear as I can. My expectations for Wojo next season are that we are "comfortably" in the tournament. Let's call that a top 7 seed. If they do not achieve this, Wojo will not have met my expectations for the first season and I will be concerned.

My expectations for the following season is another "comfortably" in the tournament. If Wojo misses a second time I will be on the "fire Wojo" bandwagon.

The one exception I will make for this is if we have a devastating injury that turns a surefire tourney team into a bubble team or worse (think Edmond Sumner last season).

These have been my expectations from Day 1. I looked at what we had and saw a 5 year rebuild in order to get to a level of success that is appropriate for Marquette. You can back and check my posting history if you want. Feel free to bookmark this and remind me in two years if you don't think I am telling the truth.

If you like, I invite you to give your expectations and what it would take to get you "onto the Wojo bandwagon" as you put it.

[1SE]

You have either mistaken me or are calling me a liar. The only way I am on the Wojo bandwagon in 20 years is if we have been enjoying two decades of elite level MU basketball and Wojo has somehow not been hired away in that time.

Let me be as clear as I can. My expectations for Wojo next season are that we are "comfortably" in the tournament. Let's call that a top 7 seed. If they do not achieve this, Wojo will not have met my expectations for the first season and I will be concerned.

My expectations for the following season is another "comfortably" in the tournament. If Wojo misses a second time I will be on the "fire Wojo" bandwagon.

The one exception I will make for this is if we have a devastating injury that turns a surefire tourney team into a bubble team or worse (think Edmond Sumner last season).

These have been my expectations from Day 1. I looked at what we had and saw a 5 year rebuild in order to get to a level of success that is appropriate for Marquette. You can back and check my posting history if you want. Feel free to bookmark this and remind me in two years if you don't think I am telling the truth.

If you like, I invite you to give your expectations and what it would take to get you "onto the Wojo bandwagon" as you put it.

This is reasonable, but I'd just up the timeframe. Depending how the rest of this season and next season play out, I'd say he should be gone next year if we miss NCAA this year and next. I'd say that's a sufficient sample to see what he can do, and if he hasn't done it by then, I'd rather just get on with it than waste another year.