2019 recruiting

[GooooMarquette]

This may be true from a defensive perspective, yet losing Rowsey will be a significant blow to the offense.  So, while we should be better defensively, I suspect we will regress offensively with Andrew gone. 

Having 3 elite shooters on the floor creates major problems for opposition defense.  Rowsey is absolutely elite.  Markus and Sam will find open looks even more difficult to come by.

We lose Rowsey, but I thought Joey was supposed to be an awfully good outside shooter.  I get that he'll be a frosh...but Markus and Sam were frosh last season and it didn't seem to hurt them....

[Charlotte Warrior]

Jalen Wilson and DJ Carton up to number 15 and 38 respectively in latest 247 rankings.Wow

But I thought rankings were completely useless, at least that's the message on why with 9 top 100 we still weren't very good last year.   I'm confused?

[Its DJOver]

But I thought rankings were completely useless, at least that's the message on why with 9 top 100 we still weren't very good last year.   I'm confused?

Rankings are generally pretty accurate through about the top 30, it varies year to year.  A lot of people only focus on the top 100 cutoff, but in reality there isn't much too much of a difference between being ranked 50 and 150.  50 would probably be a better player most of the time, but it certainly ins't unheard of for a kid outside the top 100 to be a quality player.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But I thought rankings were completely useless, at least that's the message on why with 9 top 100 we still weren't very good last year.   I'm confused?

Allow me to explain.

When a player is in high school, all most fans have to go on is their ranking on services like 247. Some like Freeport and JayBee are more connected to the high school basketball scene and have more information but most of us Average Joes can only get the rankings. Since that's the only information, it makes sense to get excited...even with the knowledge that rankings could be wrong.

Once a player gets to college and plays a season, we have a lot more data about the type of player they are. It no longer mattas what a player was ranked in high school, what mattas is what did they actually do on the court.

If you are making a hiring decision about kid who just graduated from college, do you look at their SAT/ACT scores and what percentile they ranked in their high school class? Or do you like at their grades and accomplishments from their college years?

In addition to the above, as DJOver said, rankings tend to be less and less accurate the further down you go. Top 5-10 are usually NBA caliber players. Top 25 are usually at least college studs. Top 40 are usually at least quality high major players. Beyond that, it's more of a crapshoot. There is usually a much bigger difference in the quality of player between #1 and #15 than there is between #40 and #100.

[DCHoopster]

I do find it a bit interesting that Wojo has been so against variations of zone defense.  Its obvious he much much prefers man to man, but what the heck....why not try a zone?  I love how he threw a 2/3 zone out with like 90 seconds left in the X game.  Why not try that sooner?

I have no doubt he understands his personnel far better than I, and obviously knows the game far better than I. But I just find it odd that he hasn't been willing to other defenses.

And I agree the pick and roll thing with our centers is just crazy.  Every game they're late recovering and every game they give uncontested dunk after dunk and dunk.

Some coaches are just to set in there ways to try something different, to stubborn.  This group can not play man, it is obvious.  2 pigmy guards, decent small forward,
but an undersized PF that is not quick off his feet or quick period, then centers that mostly can not move.  Spells for 21 lay-ups last game, and I am sure Brunson can
not wait to school our guards again.

[jesmu84]

But I thought rankings were completely useless, at least that's the message on why with 9 top 100 we still weren't very good last year.   I'm confused?

I love when people present this fake ignorance to a topic that has been explained countless time and doesn't require a whole lot of logic to understand.

[Stretchdeltsig]

We lose Rowsey, but I thought Joey was supposed to be an awfully good outside shooter.  I get that he'll be a frosh...but Markus and Sam were frosh last season and it didn't seem to hurt them....

Joey is a lights out shooter and capable of slashing.  Our future looks very bright!

[Stretchdeltsig]

And he is 6'9", which makes him tough to guard

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Here's to hoping all the stuff doing on at MSU helps us with guys like Rocket Watts and Isaiah Jackson

[MUDPT]

How quickly we forget. Wojo did try zone for an extended period last season. After beating Nova with the zone last year, Wojo decided to switch to playing zone as our base defense. The result was our 1-4 stretch with the 1 win being against DePaul. After getting beatdown at Georgetown Wojo switched back to man to man and we won 4/5 to get to the tourney.

Zone would improve our defense. It's a great way to improve mediocre defensive teams. But the improvement is minimal and doesn't make up for how much it damages our offense. We just have to accept it, our team sucks at defense but is elite at offense. That isn't going to change. Best way  for this team to win is to maximize our offense as much as possible.

What I would like to see more of is junk defenses. That's how we were so good against Seton Hall. Wojo threw junk defense after junk defense out there to keep the Pirates guessing and confused. They'd switch where the double team was coming from, sometimes they would double, sometimes they wouldn't, they ran at least four different kind of traps thorughout the game, there was even a few possessions of zone. It was a quantity over quality of defense. Haven't seen that as much since.

I've seen you post often that a zone would slow down our offense or damage our offense.  Is there any evidence that says that playing zone actually slows tempo? Just curious.  The obvious drawback of a zone is giving up offensive rebounds, which MU is so so at.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Here's to hoping all the stuff doing on at MSU helps us with guys like Rocket Watts and Isaiah Jackson

 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've seen you post often that a zone would slow down our offense or damage our offense.  Is there any evidence that says that playing zone actually slows tempo? Just curious.  The obvious drawback of a zone is giving up offensive rebounds, which MU is so so at.

Slowing down the tempo is one of the primary features of a zone defense. For evidence I'd point to Syracuse, king of zones, who are currently ranked 345th in tempo and end up around there almost every year. I'd also point out that Marquette was top 25 in tempo going into the Villanova game last season. Six games of zone later they had fallen all the way to 84th.

Offensive rebounding is one of but not the only weakness of zone. It also limits a team's ability to create turnovers leading to less possessions and less transition opportunities (where Marquette is at its best).

Paint Touches did an article on the downfalls of our zone last season: https://painttouches.com/2017/02/17/time-to-kill-the-zone/

[MarquetteDano]

Offensive rebounding is one of but not the only weakness of zone. It also limits a team's ability to create turnovers leading to less possessions and less transition opportunities (where Marquette is at its best).

I take some exception to zone not being able to create turnovers.  There are various zones such as the 1-3-1 which are quite strong in creating turnovers.

[MUDPT]

Slowing down the tempo is one of the primary features of a zone defense. For evidence I'd point to Syracuse, king of zones, who are currently ranked 345th in tempo and end up around there almost every year. I'd also point out that Marquette was top 25 in tempo going into the Villanova game last season. Six games of zone later they had fallen all the way to 84th.

Offensive rebounding is one of but not the only weakness of zone. It also limits a team's ability to create turnovers leading to less possessions and less transition opportunities (where Marquette is at its best).

Paint Touches did an article on the downfalls of our zone last season: https://painttouches.com/2017/02/17/time-to-kill-the-zone/

Not trying to argue, but Virginia is the slowest team in the country and they play man.  Just wondering if there is an actual study that says this.

[MU82]

Generally more difficult to rebound out of a zone.

That doesn't mean, "Don't play zone." It's just one of the potential negatives.

[DCHoopster]

Some coaches are just to set in there ways to try something different, to stubborn.  This group can not play man, it is obvious.  2 pigmy guards, decent small forward,
but an undersized PF that is not quick off his feet or quick period, then centers that mostly can not move.  Spells for 21 lay-ups last game, and I am sure Brunson can
not wait to school our guards again.

I wrote this a couple of days ago about Brunson.  Yes, he took over the game which I expected.  Wish I was wrong.  But I always remember Al saying take away the
head or best player and you have a chance to win.  Wojo does not get that.  Play a triangle and 2 on there 2 guards and let the other 3 players beat you.  Or do what
you do best, giving lay-ups to Villy.  Switching a center on there guards, seriously, a mismatch.  Guess they never taught D at Duke, because they never had to, always
had better talent, in the end, talent usually wins unless your a great defensive coach like Bennett at VA.  Maybe Wojo should watch some film about Virginia.

[wadesworld]

I wrote this a couple of days ago about Brunson.  Yes, he took over the game which I expected.  Wish I was wrong.  But I always remember Al saying take away the
head or best player and you have a chance to win.  Wojo does not get that.  Play a triangle and 2 on there 2 guards and let the other 3 players beat you.  Or do what
you do best, giving lay-ups to Villy.  Switching a center on there guards, seriously, a mismatch.  Guess they never taught D at Duke, because they never had to, always
had better talent, in the end, talent usually wins unless your a great defensive coach like Bennett at VA.  Maybe Wojo should watch some film about Virginia.

Let me know the next time you ever see a college team play a triangle and two.

[Newsdreams]

I wrote this a couple of days ago about Brunson.  Yes, he took over the game which I expected.  Wish I was wrong.  But I always remember Al saying take away the
head or best player and you have a chance to win.  Wojo does not get that.  Play a triangle and 2 on there 2 guards and let the other 3 players beat you.  Or do what
you do best, giving lay-ups to Villy.  Switching a center on there guards, seriously, a mismatch.  Guess they never taught D at Duke, because they never had to, always
had better talent, in the end, talent usually wins unless your a great defensive coach like Bennett at VA.  Maybe Wojo should watch some film about Virginia.

We are a negative of Virginia our team is not built for that type of game.

[GGGG]

I wrote this a couple of days ago about Brunson.  Yes, he took over the game which I expected.  Wish I was wrong.  But I always remember Al saying take away the
head or best player and you have a chance to win.  Wojo does not get that.  Play a triangle and 2 on there 2 guards and let the other 3 players beat you.  Or do what
you do best, giving lay-ups to Villy.  Switching a center on there guards, seriously, a mismatch.  Guess they never taught D at Duke, because they never had to, always
had better talent, in the end, talent usually wins unless your a great defensive coach like Bennett at VA.  Maybe Wojo should watch some film about Virginia.

We hedge...people complain.  We switch...people complain.

The best defense this team played was when we had Sacar guarding Brunson and Cain in the game for one of our dinky guards.

Guess what?  Height and length matters on defense.

[NorthernDancerColt]

We are a negative of Virginia our team is not built for that type of game.

Could not agree more. Despite certain Scoop characterizations of him, Wojo is an authentic, genuine guy. He probably came here with the mindset that he isn't going to be pigeonholed or type-cast into a corner of "defensive specialist", which was his persona at Duke. Plus, he could see that the cupboard, when he got here, lacked any semblance of offensive firepower. As such, he recruited to rectify that. Don't think he was trying to follow any "finesse" ACC style. But even if he was.....as some here have pointed out, he has seen the need for toughness and changed course accordingly in our recruiting.

The KO years were the halcyon days in terms of Marquette defense. Having a rim protector, heck a LANE-protector like Jimmy Mac allowed our guards to play really aggressive perimeter D. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't MU lead the country several years in FG% defense?

Cain and Elliot on the perimeter are the long athletes we have lacked, and with Theo in the middle, we will get there. Brendan and Joey will add length as well. I'm very  glad Rowsey is on our team, but his graduation will help our D. Markus is small, but needs to translate his offensive foot quickness to the defensive end. Sam is reliable and his intelligence makes up for average lateral quickness. Harry and Matt can rebound, but they won't be stopping drivers near the top of the key anytime soon...so our D needs to avoid having them end up there so often.

[tower912]

We hedge...people complain.  We switch...people complain.

The best defense this team played was when we had Sacar guarding Brunson and Cain in the game for one of our dinky guards.

Guess what?  Height and length matters on defense.

UVA switches very little,  doubles with intent, not every time, counts on its players to defend 1-on-1, even in the post.   Much is made of the pack line philosophy, but you have to have players to execute.    UVA has length, strength and experience.    MU?

[NorthernDancerColt]

We hedge...people complain.  We switch...people complain.

The best defense this team played was when we had Sacar guarding Brunson and Cain in the game for one of our dinky guards.

Guess what?  Height and length matters on defense.

Yep. And as bad as our defense was at X, despite all our built-in D deficiencies, ,the effort Sunday was there...and we were a banked "3" and a couple lucky Nova rim bounces away from winning this game. I don't want to hear about officiating. We are thankfully not Illini fans.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

UVA switches very little,  doubles with intent, not every time, counts on its players to defend 1-on-1, even in the post.   Much is made of the pack line philosophy, but you have to have players to execute.    UVA has length, strength and experience.    MU?

Everything you say in the first sentence is dead on...by the way if we do all of those items well our defense improves even if we are undersized.  Since we do do none of those items consistently.  So to me it comes down to

1. the players are being prepared properly but are not capable or not choosing to execute (recruiting or insubordination problem), 2. The players are not being instructed properly (coaching problem) or 3. The scheme cannot be executed by the players (strategy problem)

I tend to give the players and coaches the benefit of the doubt and think it is 3...being short at the guard level means we can't be elite, but we should be capable of being mediocre at defense with proper strategy and instruction. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not trying to argue, but Virginia is the slowest team in the country and they play man.  Just wondering if there is an actual study that says this.

Actually they don't play man,  they play a pack line defense. No one said that other defenses cant be slow. But most variations of the zone slow the tempo down.

[tower912]

Everything you say in the first sentence is dead on...by the way if we do all of those items well our defense improves even if we are undersized.  Since we do do none of those items consistently.  So to me it comes down to

1. the players are being prepared properly but are not capable or not choosing to execute (recruiting or insubordination problem), 2. The players are not being instructed properly (coaching problem) or 3. The scheme cannot be executed by the players (strategy problem)

I tend to give the players and coaches the benefit of the doubt and think it is 3...being short at the guard level means we can't be elite, but we should be capable of being mediocre at defense with proper strategy and instruction.

Not merely short, Markus and Andrew are nearly incapable of staying in front of their man.   And getting crushed by attacking guards causes the rotations that lead to defensive breakdowns.   Or switching, leading to Elliot guarding Martin of Butler or Harry guarding Brunson.    All to protect A and M.    In this year's team, I see everybody else attempting to be in the right position.   Sure, they get beat sometimes, but the technique and effort are there and decent.    Sam has very good technique, but only average lateral quickness.   Froling's technique is decent, but, like Luke before him, guarding a PG in space is always going to be a bad match up.   MU's post defense is actually pretty good, when it is off of a basic entry pass, not in recovery mode after a PG gets into the lane.    Matt, Theo, and Harry all have solid footwork playing post defense.    Matt isn't as strong as the other two, and they both have to keep learning how to use their mass without fouling.     Yesterday, the play everyone is talking about at the end, Cain failed to find his man, instead drifting rapidly to the backboard and actually almost overrunning the rebound.    A correctable error from the Frosh. 
    In short, I actually see things I like about this year's defense.    IMO, the problems start with M and A being unable to defend, either due to size or philosophy.      And dovetailing back to the OP, a grad transfer PG with size or 2018 PG with size (or both) will go a long way toward a successful 18-19 season.