Life Expectancy Falls Again, First Consecutive Drop Since 1962-1963

[Tugg Speedman]

He committed fraud - multiple charges of doctor shopping to get pain-killers; getting the help of others to acquire pain-killers for him; etc. - but he agreed to a plea deal with the help of his zillion-dollar legal team.

All of which came after he railed for years that drug addicts should serve hard time.

But yeah, you're right ... I guess Rush was no more guilty than O.J. was of killing Nicole. Just 2 wonderful, innocent gentlemen.

Actually, I take that back ... O.J. didn't even have to cut a deal. He really WAS innocent, unlike the criminal Rush.

He was in severe pain from a botched back surgery.  That is fact.  He got addicted to Vicodin trying to relieve the pain.

Above is a common thing among people in chronic pain.  Rush was one of the rare people actually charged under these circumstances.  Virtually no one ever is.  His arrest was the political act here.

Question, another person in chronic pain you might have heard of also got addicted to Vicodin in 1996 ... Brett Favre.

Should the Green Bay cops arrested Favre the same as Rush?  Should they have made it a spectacle and arrested him in the middle of the season... just like the Palm Beach DA went out his way to make Rush’s arrest a spectacle?

[HouWarrior]

What crime was he convicted of? Or are you using an alternative system of crime and justice? What illegal drugs did he use?

As noted above...he pled guilty to one count of prescription fraud.

Prescription drugs are legal...but Rush was up to ....2,000 painkillers, prescribed by four doctors in a six month period,.

To get more than one doctor who would prescribe... Rush pled guilty to prescription fraud...ie,  ...lying to another doctor to get more opiods.

Lying to a doctor to get a prescription drug is a crime...even when, as here,  you have become addicted to the prescribed drug.

[HouWarrior]

He was in severe pain from a botched back surgery.  That is fact.  He got addicted to Vicodin trying to relieve the pain.

Above is a common thing among people in chronic pain.  Rush was one of the rare people actually charged under these circumstances.  Virtually no one ever is.  His arrest was the political act here.

Question, another person in chronic pain you might have heard of also got addicted to Vicodin in 1996 ... Brett Favre.

Should the Green Bay cops arrested Favre the same as Rush?  Should they have made it a spectacle and arrested him in the middle of the season... just like the Palm Beach DA went out his way to make Rush’s arrest a spectacle?

Corrections time.

With Rush it was OxyCotin...the really good stuff...but its in the family of Vicodin....an opiod.

Political arrest? Spectacle arrest? No. very very wrong.

Rush was investigated over two years...his attys were able to delay any charges until after he already had cleaned up in rehab,  So the arrest was a very friendly pre arranged affair ...in by 9 , out by noon on $3000 bail....then plead, by pre agreement to one count of prescription fraud...no politics, just good efficient defense lawyering.  The arrest was the opposite of political...his attys asked for it.

Favre is an interesting case. ...but as common with you...as to Rush ...its a false analogy/ red herring...once again.

No one claimed that Favre ran around to multiple doctors making false statements to various doctors to get multiple scripts (like Rush). Instead...Sadly it appeared Favre was over provided Vicodins by one source only...the team and its doctors, ie no "Rush" type crime occurred with Favre....(no one could prove a crime--an in house matter)....But the real problem unresolved with Favre is that NFL teams have pain regimens for players that are heavily dependent on opiods.

The OP pointed out that all of us may live shorter lives due , in part to the opiod crisis. Why obfuscate with debates on political/sports figures?

Why not recognize opiods addict all of us and its gateways are both legal (Oxy, Vicodin, Morphine,etc) and illegal (heroin, syrup,etc) ? It has caught/addicted all races, all economic classes...and all we humans should share concerns over opiod abuse...its a killer

[Tugg Speedman]

Corrections time.

With Rush it was OxyCotin...the really good stuff...but its in the family of Vicodin....an opiod.

Political arrest? Spectacle arrest? No. very very wrong.

Rush was investigated over two years...his attys were able to delay any charges until after he already had cleaned up in rehab,  So the arrest was a very friendly pre arranged affair ...in by 9 , out by noon on $3000 bail....then plead, by pre agreement to one count of prescription fraud...no politics, just good efficient defense lawyering.  The arrest was the opposite of political...his attys asked for it.

Favre is an interesting case. ...but as common with you...as to Rush ...its a false analogy/ red herring...once again.

No one claimed that Favre ran around to multiple doctors making false statements to various doctors to get multiple scripts (like Rush). Instead...Sadly it appeared Favre was over provided Vicodins by one source only...the team and its doctors, ie no "Rush" type crime occurred with Favre....(no one could prove a crime--an in house matter)....But the real problem unresolved with Favre is that NFL teams have pain regimens for players that are heavily dependent on opiods.

The OP pointed out that all of us may live shorter lives due , in part to the opiod crisis. Why obfuscate with debates on political/sports figures?

Why not recognize opiods addict all of us and its gateways are both legal (Oxy, Vicodin, Morphine,etc) and illegal (heroin, syrup,etc) ? It has caught/addicted all races, all economic classes...and all we humans should share concerns over opiod abuse...its a killer

It was both oxy and Vicodin for Rush.  Others too.

And you’re 100% sure Favre got his drugs through legal scripts?  No stealing, bogus scripts or other lawbreaking ways (like doctor shopping) to get them?  We know this for sure because if the QB of the Packers was a junkie surely the Green Bay police would also have spent two years investigating to make sure no laws were broken, correct?  They would never just take the word of the NFL that it was an “in-house matter?”

My point is we do not arrest people in legitimate pain seeking relief and become addicted as a form of punishment after the fact.  We do arrest them as way to force them into rehab.  Then once clean, the charges are dropped or given probation.

Rush was arrested after the fact as a form of punishment. And thank you for that accurate description of how he was arrested, it is the very definition of a political spectacle motivated by his stature and politics.... the exact same reason 82 brought it up and has his opinion of him.

[mu03eng]

Maybe we can take a break from the nonsensical stuff to talk about the opioid problem. Anyone else buy into the problem being driven large part by this silly need for patient satisfaction? Pain management generally is one of the worst things about our medical system and in my opinion a reflection of our instant gratification society. Everyone is in pain and everyone needs the pain to go away immediately.

[tower912]

Thank you for bringing it back to point.     Back pain.....   Chiropractic, yoga (stretching), acupuncture.    I've done all 3.    Then again, if I have sciatic pain, my solution is to walk 18 holes carrying my clubs to work it out.   What works for me doesn't work for everyone.   One of my best friends will flat out tell you that he plays his best golf when he takes a Vicodin, not merely because of the pain relief, but that it gives him a relaxing buzz that allows him to turn it loose. 
  It comes down to managing pain.    And the notion that life should be pain free.    And the need for a buzz.   

[martyconlonontherun]

i try to avoid pain killers at all costs. Heard too many stories of normal people getting addicted after a routine surgery leading to them destroying their lives. If possible, I would rather just deal with the pain.

[4everwarriors]

Hoo heer believes in der hart of harts dat OJ didn’t commit dem murders, hey?

[jesmu84]

Maybe we can take a break from the nonsensical stuff to talk about the opioid problem. Anyone else buy into the problem being driven large part by this silly need for patient satisfaction? Pain management generally is one of the worst things about our medical system and in my opinion a reflection of our instant gratification society. Everyone is in pain and everyone needs the pain to go away immediately.

Big-time. It doesn't affect me (surgical subspecialty), but it does a lot of my colleagues in ER and family med.

A mother brings in her 8 year old to ER at midnight due to a cough/runny nose (this is often seen in ER mostly cause child is keeping parent awake). Provider says likely virus - will run its course, give symptomatic meds. Mother demands antibiotics. Provider's compensation/bonus is tied to patient satisfaction. What are they supposed to do? (Thanks non-provider administrators)

[Jockey]

Hoo heer believes in der hart of harts dat OJ didn’t commit dem murders, hey?

Only JB, I would guess.

[MU82]

It was both oxy and Vicodin for Rush.  Others too.

And you’re 100% sure Favre got his drugs through legal scripts?  No stealing, bogus scripts or other lawbreaking ways (like doctor shopping) to get them?  We know this for sure because if the QB of the Packers was a junkie surely the Green Bay police would also have spent two years investigating to make sure no laws were broken, correct?  They would never just take the word of the NFL that it was an “in-house matter?”

My point is we do not arrest people in legitimate pain seeking relief and become addicted as a form of punishment after the fact.  We do arrest them as way to force them into rehab.  Then once clean, the charges are dropped or given probation.

Rush was arrested after the fact as a form of punishment. And thank you for that accurate description of how he was arrested, it is the very definition of a political spectacle motivated by his stature and politics.... the exact same reason 82 brought it up and has his opinion of him.

Fair enough, Smuggles. I'll accept victory and move on.

Opioids are bad when abused, and they are easily abused.

[Jockey]

Maybe we can take a break from the nonsensical stuff to talk about the opioid problem. Anyone else buy into the problem being driven large part by this silly need for patient satisfaction? Pain management generally is one of the worst things about our medical system and in my opinion a reflection of our instant gratification society. Everyone is in pain and everyone needs the pain to go away immediately.

What you say makes a lot of sense, but....

It's hard for me to say as I have never been in pain in 60 years. I have never had to try to manage pain. I can't say I wouldn't have taken whatever was needed to relieve it.

[GGGG]

I think if given the choice between living in pain, or being relieved of pain with the potential of being addicted, I would choose the latter.

[mu03eng]

What you say makes a lot of sense, but....

It's hard for me to say as I have never been in pain in 60 years. I have never had to try to manage pain. I can't say I wouldn't have taken whatever was needed to relieve it.

Never had a major surgery(if not, good for you)? Unfortunately I've had a number of them, most orthopedic or whatnot, but it is amazing how hard doctors push narcotics on you post-surgery...usually Percocet or Vicodin. After every major surgery I've switched to ibuprofen by the time I get home so have lots of unused pills. Always get the statement "You have to stay ahead of the pain"....no, no I don't

[mu03eng]

I think if given the choice between living in pain, or being relieved of pain with the potential of being addicted, I would choose the latter.

Chronic pain is something different but even then there are alternatives to pills. Using pills for chronic pain just Me and you are virtually guaranteed to become an addict.

[Tugg Speedman]

I think if given the choice between living in pain, or being relieved of pain with the potential of being addicted, I would choose the latter.

And in some cases, it is preferable.  People with terminal debilitating diseases are sometimes given opioids to the point of being addicted.  But if they have weeks or months left to live, is that a crime?  In some cases, the law says yes.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I adjusted try to avoid using addictive painkillers.  I made an exception when I had nose and throat surgery at the same time. Worst pain I've been in. I used all of that codeine.

[Jockey]

Never had a major surgery(if not, good for you)? Unfortunately I've had a number of them, most orthopedic or whatnot, but it is amazing how hard doctors push narcotics on you post-surgery...usually Percocet or Vicodin. After every major surgery I've switched to ibuprofen by the time I get home so have lots of unused pills. Always get the statement "You have to stay ahead of the pain"....no, no I don't

Not even a minor surgery - unless a root canal is considered surgery.

Had some sprains playing sports, but ice and ibuprofen was plenty

[rocket surgeon]

if the stuff is used properly and for the first few days post-op for a nasty extraction or something, addiction won't happen.  it will happen if you allow it.  chronic pain treatment is a whole different animal.

     even for us ONLY dentists, i will prescribe 15-25 hydrocodone 5/325's for a nasty extraction or abcess from hell, then instruct them to shift over to 600mg ibuprofen, followed by 2 x extra strength acetominophen 2-3 hours later.  then 8-12 hours later 600mg ibuprofen followed by acetominphen 2-3 hours, etc...  tramadol 50mg has been a nice alternative as well. 

    since the advent of the pdmp, we are made well aware of Rx abuse and it's easier to find the doctor shoppers.  the thing is, a random dude can't just call me and ask for opiates without me having them as a patient of record

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Never had a major surgery(if not, good for you)? Unfortunately I've had a number of them, most orthopedic or whatnot, but it is amazing how hard doctors push narcotics on you post-surgery...usually Percocet or Vicodin. After every major surgery I've switched to ibuprofen by the time I get home so have lots of unused pills. Always get the statement "You have to stay ahead of the pain"....no, no I don't

My last knee surgery the doctor gave me Percoset.  I took once or twice and had to stop because the side effects were way worse than the knee pain.  The nausea and dizziness were awful.  I almost fell.  I switched to ibuprofen and was perfectly fine.

[tower912]

Doctors give me prescriptions for the heavy stuff and I never fill them.   When necessary, I load up on the OTC stuff for a few days. 

[rocket surgeon]

Doctors give me prescriptions for the heavy stuff and I never fill them.   When necessary, I load up on the OTC stuff for a few days.

That’s unusual for them just to write it up if you while not even asking.  I will usually ask them if they have any issues with the opiates.  Sometimes,  if the procedure was kinda nasty, I will write them out for a few and tell them if they don’t fill it, shred it.  There isn’t usually enough for a hardcore person to have an appetizer.  Most people will decline the opiates which is good news unless they can get the good stuff on their own for cheaper

[jesmu84]

And in some cases, it is preferable.  People with terminal debilitating diseases are sometimes given opioids to the point of being addicted.  But if they have weeks or months left to live, is that a crime?  In some cases, the law says yes.

Uh.... What?

[Tugg Speedman]

Uh.... What?

Guy hurt in a car crash in chronic horrible pain.  Doctors afraid to feed his addition because they did not want to lose their license.  Guy resorts to stealing, drug trafficking, and forgery to get pills. 

Convicted and sent to prison.  But in prison, they decided the best course of action to feed his addition to relive him of the pain.  So in prison, he gets exactly what he could not get outside of prison.

So there are cases when feeding the addition might be the best course of action.  Like this guy in constant terrible pain or those with advanced illnesses in the final weeks/months of their life. If becoming a junkie makes them comfortable, doctors helping them should not be punished.

Prisoner Of Pain
How One Man's Quest For Pain Relief Landed Him In Jail
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/prisoner-of-pain/

[Tugg Speedman]

The Opioid Plaque's Youngest Victims:  Children in foster care

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/opioid-crisis-children-foster-care.html

As more Americans struggle with opioid addiction and find themselves unable to perform their duties as parents, children are pouring into state and county foster care systems. In Montana, the number of children in foster care has doubled since 2010. In Georgia, it has increased by 80 percent, and in West Virginia, by 45 percent. Altogether, nearly 440,000 kids are spending this holiday season in foster care, compared with 400,000 in 2011.

The data points to drug abuse as a primary reason, and experts have identified opioids in particular. Neglect remains the main reason children enter foster care. But from 2015 to 2016, the increase in the number of children who came into foster care as a result of parental drug abuse was far greater than the increases in the 14 other categories, like housing instability, according to data from the federal Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System.