Article on Marquette's new admissions strategy

[CTWarrior]

I'm not sure if I implied anything, but I am agnostic on the acceptance rate/recruiting topic.  I have no idea if the current strategy is a good idea in the long run.  To me, all that matters is that for students who do attend, the degree is worth the money it cost to get it, which to me means it has value with regards to employment in the field the graduate wants.  So I am not concerned particularly with where the students come from.  I loved my time there and would love it if more from our area would get that same experience.  But it is more important to me that MU thrives. 

[Disco Hippie]

I'm not sure if I implied anything, but I am agnostic on the acceptance rate/recruiting topic.  I have no idea if the current strategy is a good idea in the long run.  To me, all that matters is that for students who do attend, the degree is worth the money it cost to get it, which to me means it has value with regards to employment in the field the graduate wants.  So I am not concerned particularly with where the students come from.  I loved my time there and would love it if more from our area would get that same experience.  But it is more important to me that MU thrives.

Agreed!  They just need to monitor things closely so it doesn't backfire and repel students with academic profiles they're trying to attract more of.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Agreed!  They just need to monitor things closely so it doesn't backfire and repel students with academic profiles they're trying to attract more of.

As long as enrollments and ACT/SAT scores increase, it shouldn't be an issue.  The problem I had when Pilarz was here was that he swung East Coast Elite when MU wasn't there nor is it really their target (his goal was Top 50). MU ain't BC, UND nor Georgetown, nor should it try to become one of them as it would become the flat fourth wheel he was heading MU for.  Blowing up the FFP was just Pilarz-stupid with all the first generation kids coming up.

[warriorchick]

As long as enrollments and ACT/SAT scores increase, it shouldn't be an issue.  The problem I had when Pilarz was here was that he swung East Coast Elite when MU wasn't there nor is it really their target (his goal was Top 50). MU ain't BC, UND nor Georgetown, nor should it try to become one of them as it would become the flat fourth wheel he was heading MU for.  Blowing up the FFP was just Pilarz-stupid with all the first generation kids coming up.

Don't confuse FFP with EOP.

FFP (Freshman Frontier Program) is for students that didn't quite meet academic standards but MU decided to give them a chance. The rumor always was that they were accepted because they paid full freight.  We GDLs used to joke that FFP stood for Financially Fit Parents or the Freshman F-up program.  Based on my own observation and the stories my kids told me, it looked like in the last few years of its existence,  FFP kids were the source of a disproportionate number of disciplinary problems. 

EOP  (Educational Opportunity Program) is still alive and well, and that is the program that helps kids from at-risk backgrounds. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Don't confuse FFP with EOP.

FFP (Freshman Frontier Program) is for students that didn't quite meet academic standards but MU decided to give them a chance. The rumor always was that they were accepted because they paid full freight.  We GDLs used to joke that FFP stood for Financially Fit Parents or the Freshman F-up program.  Based on my own observation and the stories my kids told me, it looked like in the last few years of its existence,  FFP kids were the source of a disproportionate number of disciplinary problems. 

EOP  (Educational Opportunity Program) is still alive and well, and that is the program that helps kids from at-risk backgrounds.

I don’t know what “at risk is”, but in a outlook where Hispanics will be near 45% of college aged kids, a transitional program like FFP for first-generation kids makes sense. I don’t know what the program became over time but it was very successful for years because of orientation aspects.

[warriorchick]

I don’t know what “at risk is”, but in a outlook where Hispanics will be near 45% of college aged kids, a transitional program like FFP for first-generation kids makes sense. I don’t know what the program became over time but it was very successful for years because of orientation aspects.

"At risk" is the new way of saying "underprivileged".

And as I said above, FFP was not a program focused on first-gen kids.  EOP is, and it is alive and well.

http://www.marquette.edu/eop/

[GGGG]

"At risk" is the new way of saying "underprivileged".

And as I said above, FFP was not a program focused on first-gen kids.  EOP is, and it is alive and well.

http://www.marquette.edu/eop/

Yeah I always thought that FFP was for middle class kids who got a good ACT score but graduated with a 2.6.  There is potential there but they probably f*cked up a little too many times in high school.

[Disco Hippie]

As long as enrollments and ACT/SAT scores increase, it shouldn't be an issue.  The problem I had when Pilarz was here was that he swung East Coast Elite when MU wasn't there nor is it really their target (his goal was Top 50). MU ain't BC, UND nor Georgetown, nor should it try to become one of them as it would become the flat fourth wheel he was heading MU for.  Blowing up the FFP was just Pilarz-stupid with all the first generation kids coming up.

Can you elaborate on your Pilarz theory Doc?  I’m an east coaster myself (born and raised with the exception of the 4 yrs I spent in MKE) but not sure what you mean specifically?  I don’t think Pilarz was trying to make Marquette elite but what’s wrong with aiming higher and making it as good as it can be? I agree that MU aint ND, Gtown or BC, nor should they try to be but threre’s always room for improvement. It would be great if MU were the flat 4th wheel to those instututions but they’re currently barely the 10th wheel and what concerns me about this new enrollment strategy is that in an era when higher education inflation continues to rise at an alarming pace, it seems to me private instituitions highly dependent on tuition revenue like MU should do everything they can to improve their brand in the marketplace, and the current strategy could backfire if high potential students say.....you know what for the same $$$ I can go to (insert any comparable size private or public school with a USNR National ranking in the
60’s or 70’s instead of our 90 and acceptance rate of 65% instead of our 84% here).  I know MU doesn’t compete for the same students as ND, Gtown and BC, but they do compete with the schools whose profiles are a notch or two better than theirs and it may become more difficult to compete for those students over time if the acceptance rate remains at the same level and the USNR ranking continues to decline because of it. The Trib editors wouldn’t have chose to pursue this story if they weren’t seriously concerned and multiple adminstrators have acknowledged the strategy could backfire and have the opposite effect of what they’re trying to acheive.  If they can continue to pursue this strategy without further ranking/reputational decline, more power to them but I’m very skeptical and would prefer them not to have to make a course correction in the first place.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Pilarz's plan has been deleted as best I can find. From memory, it was to move to under Top 50 in USNWR rankings.  But, without the Medical Center, the research foundations to attract huge federal grants, and a comparatively low, shrinking endowment to accomplish that goal. On top of that, there were key university spots left unfilled or filled by his unqualified or ineffective minions, himself included.

Essentially, he had no achievable plan, and more so, no plan to pay for it or his ability to fundraise for it...and he was already down the path of financial ruin as it was. So, basically the plan relied on hope and the ability to lower acceptance rates to move up spots in a magazine's rankings by moving away from what Marquette has always stood for:  A university of firsts (not to be the next SLU, BC, UND, Georgetown).

Glad we are back on track and thinking differently about our future.

[GGGG]

The idea that Marquette should become more "exclusive," by jacking up the denominator of applicants, is a foolhardy plan that doesn't really accomplish anything substantial.  If nothing substantial changes other than changing the acceptance rate from 50% to 30%, it is a waste of time and effort and frankly it is intellectually insulting.

Every University must understand its mission and what it can reasonably expect to aspire to become.  And must do all of this within its financial constraints.  Marquette is not going to become Notre Dame.  I would argue that it shouldn't even aspire to become Notre Dame.  The University serves a nice niche now - it should strive to excel  within that niche.

[warriorchick]

The idea that Marquette should become more "exclusive," by jacking up the denominator of applicants, is a foolhardy plan that doesn't really accomplish anything substantial other than jacking up the cost of running the Admissions Department.  If nothing substantial changes other than changing the acceptance rate from 50% to 30%, it is a waste of time and effort and frankly it is intellectually insulting.

Every University must understand its mission and what it can reasonably expect to aspire to become.  And must do all of this within its financial constraints.  Marquette is not going to become Notre Dame.  I would argue that it shouldn't even aspire to become Notre Dame.  The University serves a nice niche now - it should strive to excel  within that niche.

FIFY

[PorkysButthole]

The idea that Marquette should become more "exclusive," by jacking up the denominator of applicants, is a foolhardy plan that doesn't really accomplish anything substantial.  If nothing substantial changes other than changing the acceptance rate from 50% to 30%, it is a waste of time and effort and frankly it is intellectually insulting.

Every University must understand its mission and what it can reasonably expect to aspire to become.  And must do all of this within its financial constraints.  Marquette is not going to become Notre Dame.  I would argue that it shouldn't even aspire to become Notre Dame.  The University serves a nice niche now - it should strive to excel  within that niche.

Fair enough. Porky can't argue with this analysis if going from 50% to 30% were the actual stats but the problem is they're not.  Porky was intrigued by this article and thread and did a little research and it turns out the acceptance rate is actually higher then the Trib article stated because they were using fall 2016 data.  This year it was over 80% if Princeton Review and Niche are accurate.  That's really really really high!   Too high IPHO overcome the counter argument that the average ACT / SAT scores and GPA's are climbing and continue to improve.  Look the last thing Porky wants is for MU to become more ND like, and academic snobbery is not Porky's style, but they need to be careful because prospective students do look at acceptance stats and do care about it.  The coastie in Porky is certain of that, so they better watch their back or their reputation very well might end up in Porky's Butthole 5 years from now.