Season outlook took a hit

[hairy worthen]

Tower

It very likely will be a very long season. I look forward to reading about the starting lineups two years down the road. My favorite is when the projected depth charts by position get brought to our attention.

Thank you for not accepting mediocrity.  Winning teams find ways to win, losing teams make excuses.

I am a bit more optimistic for the this season and beyond then you or Tower seem to be. Even good teams struggle at times, let it play out over the course of the season, then decide.

[MUBigDance]

You guys need to settle down lol we lost to .500 UW-Green Bay the year we made it to the Elite 8. Every team can have a bad game and we had our worst of the year last night and still won. We will probably struggle a bit for the next month but I am confident Froling will help the offensive/defensive paint presence issue. Greg Elliott stepped up across the board last night.

agree with the positive spin on this. This is where coaches need to step up. One less significant player...young and short. Coaches do your thing.

And you can start with teaching Heldt to handle the high screen! He was out of position and lost so many times...I wondered why they didnt feed wide open Duma (Dama?)  more after the pick and roll.

I like Heldt, real positive...but he's got handle the high pick and roll second nature rather than like he's trying to remember what the coach said...and we need to rotate when he does go up.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Hard to say. I don't pay attention to other teams and their transfers, do players that are actually playing significant minutes transfer from Creighton, Butler, etc.? Maybe it's a matter of being featured, but Duane went to a better team in Texas and is playing similar minutes. Steve Taylor. Gabe Levin. Sandy Cohen. Traci Carter. Duane Wilson. Haanif Cheatham. First two guys had a coaching change so I can forgive that. But all these guys were, or would have gotten, major minutes. Would Cohen be ahead of Cain? I think so. Duane would have been ahead of Elliott. Part of the coach's job is to get kids to buy in, obviously the role players aren't.

I think u are reaching on how good and how much time tracy and cohen would have received.  Cohen would be behind cain n elliott as a senior and would not have seen the court as a junior.
Traci as a senior would be behind howard and rowsey.  They only get 4 years when they see the writing on the wall you cannot blame them fir wanting to play. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

One thing I wonder about is if Wojo struggles to please the masses.  Maybe he is simply a no BS guy that speaks his mind when he is approached by a player upset about his situation, playing time, whatever.  In some regards, I like that.  But perhaps he needs to be a little better at managing the players.     

Transfers are a way of the game.  I get that.  But 5 mid-season transfers over the past few years hurts.  I have no doubt that Wojo at least tried to keep Haanif and Traci around, but it just seems like you should be able to convince a guy like HC that a mid-year transfer in his situation is a terrible decision for all parties. 

[Herman Cain]

I am still confident of our success this season. Sam, Markus and Rowsey are consistently combining for 60 points. In the greater scheme of things most teams cannot lay claim to that kind of firepower. The rest of the team has to show up and hustle. I have been a big fan of Greg Elliott and I believe he will meet the challenge and make the most of his opportunity.

My assumption above also incorporates no change in Froling.  My guess is Froling will come out strong against the two cupcakes and then have some challenges in the Big East ; however, his net contribution will be positive. I see the Big 3 getting more clean looks as a result of Froling being a viable offensive threat.

3rd in Big East and make it to second weekend of tournament.

[cheebs09]

3rd in Big East and make it to second weekend of tournament.

You could just make this your signature to cut down on typing.

[bilsu]

I never had high expectations for this season. Three frosh, 4 sophs and only two upper classman do not make for a consistently winning team. Greg and Sacar are the only two players that are quick enough to play decent defense. I look forward to seeing them develop into very good players that will make Sam, Joey and Markus into great players. I am also sad to see Haanif leave, but just from the "eye test" when Sacar drives to the basket he gets above the rim and his shot has a good chance of going into the basket whereas Haani's drives were a source of much frustration. My "eye test" however may not match the stats. The loss of Haani may have affected the team last night; just have to wait and see.

+1000
I do think Haani leaving psychologically had an effect on the team last night. The team did not seem ready to play. Heldt did not even jump for the jump ball.  Once Froling is eligible, I believe Haani's role would of significantly diminished as Sam will start at small forward.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The only jump ball Matty has won all year was the faux toss by the official versus WSU on the third try.  Other than hockey, I have never seen a ref pump fake so much.

[GooooMarquette]

We got this.

[Jay Bee]

I am still confident of our success this season. Sam, Markus and Rowsey are consistently combining for 60 points. In the greater scheme of things most teams cannot lay claim to that kind of firepower.

If by "consistently" you mean in 4 of 6 games.

[rocket surgeon]

Not sure where this is coming from?

Everyone seems to believe hanni was the savior of MU basketball or something.

Nice player, but by no means have my expectations of the NCAA tournament berth changed.  I won't miss Hanni continuously getting stuffed at the rim each game.  His offense was subpar. No right hand finish, and could hit the open 3 once in a while.

Elliot has shown me he's much better defensively and Anim can make up for the loss of Hanni's offensive production.

I hope we'll for the young man, but I think this could be a good thing.  Freshman getting a lot of run and contributing early.

  thank you!
   
  there have been numerous other posts accusing others of trying to draw conclusions on so little data.  i like haanif, and wish him nothing but the best, but regardless of his box score contributions, i felt he had the moxy and calm demeanor to be a nice leader.  well that is gone and it presented elliot with an opportunity to show us what he has probably a little sooner rather than later.  this might just work out a little different than expected and i believe wojo will get er done

  but he has to scrap that high post chase as one pointed out here previously-only bad things can happen from that strategy over the long term.  we don't need anymore ways to get mathew into foul trouble

[Tugg Speedman]

This thread disappoints me.  At its heart is a bunch of backward thinking that every transfer is a strike against the program.  How about the incoming kids?


Out
Traci Carter
Duane Wilson
Hannif Cheatam
Sandy Cohen

In
Andrew Rowsey
Katin Reinhardt
Harry Froling
Ed Morrow

Question ... which is the better list of players?  Out or In?

Hands down it is In.  The massive amount of transfers in college sports (and basketball in particular) is a net positive for MU.  Root for more transfers as we get better, not worse, because of it.

So, change your Depends and update your thinking ... you should expect at least 1 transfer a semester.  And don't be shocked if we have another one before school starts in January.  And, also expect Wojo to get a better player in return.

[jsglow]

The only jump ball Matty has won all year was the faux toss by the official versus WSU on the third try.  Other than hockey, I have never seen a ref pump fake so much.

He's deferring for the second half kickoff.

[NotAnAlum]

It's not a recruiting issue, it's a player management issue. If 2 of the recent transfers were still on the team (Duane, Cheatham, Carter) there would great depth. Marquette seems to be perpetually young.

This is so true.  Wojo and staff have a player retention issue.  Wojo is an excellent recruiter.  I don't know how exactly he does it but he does.  Nobody on this board would deny that.  But by the same token he has a real problem keeping guys that aren't in his starting 5.  Why does he have this problem.  I don't know.  Maybe guys are promised to much going in.  Maybe promises he is making to recruits leak to the team.  Maybe the communication is not good or the assistants aren't able to act as an advocate for players that feel they are out of favor. 
I believe Wojo when he says that he is sorry to see Haanif leave.  I even believe he tried (somewhat) to talk him into staying.  The problem is that these guys come to feel that they don't want to be here any more and by the time it gets to that point its too late to talk the guy out of leaving.
I can't help but feel that some of this may be the "Duke Arrogance".  The idea that We're the best and if you don't fit in that is your problem.  I don't know what it is but I know that MU will not be able to even reach the success Buzz achieved if all of our seasoned players leave as soon as they stop being in the starting 5.  For a team at MU's level you win with upper classmen and they can't all be graduate transfers.   
 

[Tugg Speedman]

This is so true.  Wojo and staff have a player retention issue.  Wojo is an excellent recruiter.  I don't know how exactly he does it but he does.  Nobody on this board would deny that.  But by the same token he has a real problem keeping guys that aren't in his starting 5.  Why does he have this problem.  I don't know.  Maybe guys are promised to much going in.  Maybe promises he is making to recruits leak to the team.  Maybe the communication is not good or the assistants aren't able to act as an advocate for players that feel they are out of favor. 
I believe Wojo when he says that he is sorry to see Haanif leave.  I even believe he tried (somewhat) to talk him into staying.  The problem is that these guys come to feel that they don't want to be here any more and by the time it gets to that point its too late to talk the guy out of leaving.
I can't help but feel that some of this may be the "Duke Arrogance".  The idea that We're the best and if you don't fit in that is your problem.  I don't know what it is but I know that MU will not be able to even reach the success Buzz achieved if all of our seasoned players leave as soon as they stop being in the starting 5.  For a team at MU's level you win with upper classmen and they can't all be graduate transfers.   

This is so wrong ... or this is true at all 300+ D1 basketball schools.  MU is "normal", not unique.

Please read this ... then read it again.

College basketball transfers aren't new, but players and coaches cope with increase
Nov. 7, 2017
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/11/07/college-basketball-transfers-arent-new-but-players-and-coaches-cope-increase/686784001/
According to the NCAA, about 40 percent of Division I players leave their first school by end of sophomore year. Percentage of players transferring from one four-year school to another increased from 9.4 in 2003-04 to 13.8 in 2013-14, according to Sports Illustrated and the NCAA. That represents a 47 percent increase. The figure dipped slightly last year.

The rest of the article is pretty good.

[NorthernDancerColt]

+1000
I do think Haani leaving psychologically had an effect on the team last night. The team did not seem ready to play. Heldt did not even jump for the jump ball.  Once Froling is eligible, I believe Haani's role would of significantly diminished as Sam will start at small forward.

Haani wanting to be "the man" means that he may have indeed been "leaving psychologically" for awhile, lol. I like your double entendre.

[NCMUFan]

We made the NCAA with the 3 amigos as Freshman and it was one of the most exciting years ever in MU BB history.  Tell me no one remembers the excitement and electricity of MU knocking off no. 2 rated UCONN for our inaugural BEAST game.  I am so looking forward to the rest of the season.  I see a more than half full glass.  How about when Burton or Maymon left the team we were all but ready to throw in the season then too and MU came back and became more resilient than ever.  Get fired up MU!

[Galway Eagle]

We made the NCAA with the 3 amigos as Freshman and it was one of the most exciting years ever in MU BB history.  Tell me no one remembers the excitement and electricity of MU knocking off no. 2 rated UCONN for our inaugural BEAST game.  I am so looking forward to the rest of the season.  I see a more than half full glass.  How about when Burton or Maymon left the team we were all but ready to throw in the season then too and MU came back and became more resilient than ever.  Get fired up MU!

When burton left we had the worst season in 50+ years of MUBB

[Stretchdeltsig]

Not sure where this is coming from?

Everyone seems to believe hanni was the savior of MU basketball or something.

Nice player, but by no means have my expectations of the NCAA tournament berth changed.  I won't miss Hanni continuously getting stuffed at the rim each game.  His offense was subpar. No right hand finish, and could hit the open 3 once in a while.

Elliot has shown me he's much better defensively and Anim can make up for the loss of Hanni's offensive production.

I hope we'll for the young man, but I think this could be a good thing.  Freshman getting a lot of run and contributing early.

You said it well.  Reality hurts sometimes but Hanif was playing his way deeper into the bench. 

[StillAWarrior]

i like haanif, and wish him nothing but the best, but regardless of his box score contributions, i felt he had the moxy and calm demeanor to be a nice leader.  well that is gone and it presented elliot with an opportunity to show us what he has probably a little sooner rather than later.

This pretty well summarizes how I feel about it.  I wish he hadn't transferred...but he did.  The silver lining is that it will allow other players to get more experience earlier.  Hopefully, they have higher ceilings than Haanif and we'll come out ahead in the long run.

Next man up.

[brewcity77]

When burton left we had the worst season in 50+ years of MUBB

Well, I mean, uhh, yeah, there's that, but...

[tower912]

Haanif wasn't a savior.  He was a competent junior with size and a willingness to play defense on a team lacking all 3 of those characteristics that is now short of bodies.  Next man up.  It is possible that everybody steps up.  For my sanity, I will be watching the rest of the season with a different set of expectations. 

[MarquetteDano]

When burton left we had the worst season in 50+ years of MUBB

I get the general point but just to be a stickler:
in '14-'15 we were 13-19 in the Big East

in '88-'89 we were 13-15 as an independent and an easier schedule
in '87-'88 we were 10-19 as an independent and an easier schedule

No question though 2014-15 was one of our worst seasons in 50 years as a program.

[StillAWarrior]

in '88-'89 we were 13-15 as an independent and an easier schedule
in '87-'88 we were 10-19 as an independent and an easier schedule

Ahhhh...the glory days of my time at Marquette.  It's a wonder I'm a fan.  Like steel forged in fire, I suppose.

[We R Final Four]

+1000
I do think Haani leaving psychologically had an effect on the team last night. The team did not seem ready to play. Heldt did not even jump for the jump ball.  Once Froling is eligible, I believe Haani's role would of significantly diminished as Sam will start at small forward.

MH didn’t even get up on the jump ball because he wasn’t ready to play........because HC left the team??