SOTG LSU

[wadesworld]

We need to have a new award for unsung hero of the game if people keep going with the answers that aren't obvious. How is Rowsey NOT stud of the game? Agree with Sultan / skianth16.

Because again, sure if it’s a 2 point game at half and Rowsey doesn’t have the second half he does we don’t win, but the only reason it wasn’t a 15 point game at half was because Rowsey was absolutely horrendous down the stretch of the first half. Waters was absolutely lighting us up...and it didn’t matter at all. We had a double digit lead the entire first half...until Rowsey started playing like he’d never played beyond the high school freshman level. I’m glad he got hot in the second half and went to the line a ton. I’m disappointed his play made the second half something it didn’t need to be.

MU is up 10 with 6 minutes left in the first half. Back to back turnover by Rowsey lead to back to back buckets by LSU to cut the game to 6. From there we score 4 more points the rest of the half, Rowsey turns the ball over once more, and then he opens up the second half with a turnover and I believe Wojo went to the bench right away. He was the only reason the game ever got close, and then yes he did help lead us to victory after that, but he was BAAAAAAAAD in letting them cut into a double digit lead.

[PGsHeroes32]

PGsHeroes32, fjm, Wades (who probably also thinks Rowsey's on roids)
I'm sure if you check the Purdue game thread, or tons from last year or Carlino's year you will find a lot more examples.

I think by this you mean

You enjoy rowseys balls on your chin...while me, FJM and Wades will point out poor play when it happens.

Did I seriously read a post from you saying "we will take 5 TOs a half" from 1 player???

You realize 10 turnovers from 1 guy in a game would be absolutely awful right?

[skianth16]

It we use thr NBA 2K rating scale, I'd say we have 2 guys in the upper 80s to maybe low 90s - clear leaders and the guys you want to have the ball with the game on the line. We expect 22 and 8 out of these guys each night, fairly or not. So if they put up 25 and 10, we have people on the boards saying this is basically par for the course; we expect this.

Then, we have lots of guys in the 60s and 70s who may average 6 and 3 with 4 fouls and a few TOs. If one of these guys has 12 points, there are people who think this is an All American type performance, simply because he played better than his average.

SOTG shouldn't be a handicap kind of conversation, at least for me. It's about who made the biggest contribution in winning the game. Effort and heart matter, but in most cases, they don't make up the difference between a guy off the bench and a star. Apparently my criteria is different than some other people, though. Then again, I've always despised participation trophies too.

[wadesworld]

It we use thr NBA 2K rating scale, I'd say we have 2 guys in the upper 80s to maybe low 90s - clear leaders and the guys you want to have the ball with the game on the line. We expect 22 and 8 out of these guys each night, fairly or not. So if they put up 25 and 10, we have people on the boards saying this is basically par for the course; we expect this.

Then, we have lots of guys in the 60s and 70s who may average 6 and 3 with 4 fouls and a few TOs. If one of these guys has 12 points, there are people who think this is an All American type performance, simply because he played better than his average.

SOTG shouldn't be a handicap kind of conversation, at least for me. It's about who made the biggest contribution in winning the game. Effort and heart matter, but in most cases, they don't make up the difference between a guy off the bench and a star. Apparently my criteria is different than some other people, though. Then again, I've always despised participation trophies too.

I guess the program is into handicapping and participation trophies.  Damn millennials.  They're everywhere.

[GGGG]

The program has reasons for naming players of the game. Don’t read too much into it.

[skianth16]

The program has reasons for naming players of the game. Don’t read too much into it.

Agreed. Statements from the coaching staff are often very intentional and directed more toward the team than fans or the press.

[forgetful]

The program has reasons for naming players of the game. Don’t read too much into it.

Or they are evaluating the most important contributor to that game, period. 

Reading too much into it is trying to come up with hidden reasons/meanings instead of the simplest explanation. 

Strange argument on here.  Sacar would have been a very deserving SOTG.  Rowsey was also.  Many of our opinions were that Sacar's well rounded and consistent effort was more deserving.  So did MUBB.  Simple, no need for arguments or criticisms. 

[🏀]

Rowsey was benched for poor play, Sacar wasn't. Argument over.

[jsglow]

Or they are evaluating the most important contributor to that game, period. 

Reading too much into it is trying to come up with hidden reasons/meanings instead of the simplest explanation. 

Strange argument on here.  Sacar would have been a very deserving SOTG.  Rowsey was also.  Many of our opinions were that Sacar's well rounded and consistent effort was more deserving.  So did MUBB.  Simple, no need for arguments or criticisms.

+1  Call it a day on this boys.

[wadesworld]

Rowsey was benched for poor play, Sacar wasn't. Argument over.

Exactly. I’m glad the message got through to Rowsey and he had a great second half. I even understand thinking he deserves SOTG. But anybody who claims that anyone who suggests anyone other than Rowsey doesn’t know basketball or that we have come to take for granted 30 point performances just didn’t watch the game or doesn’t understand that you can fill up the score column and still not have played amazing. In my opinion we’re in big, big trouble if this is the kind of play we’re going to get from Rowsey this year. He’s a much better player than how he played yesterday, 30 points or not.

[GGGG]

Rowsey was benched for poor play, Sacar wasn't. Argument over.

That’s pretty dumb reasoning. So someone who is benched for poor play is automatically disqualified? They can’t regroup and be the most important player in a game?

Or they are evaluating the most important contributor to that game, period. 

Reading too much into it is trying to come up with hidden reasons/meanings instead of the simplest explanation. 

So we shouldn’t have opinions on this?  It should simply be left up to mubb?

The explanation is simple. We win even without Sacar. We lose without Rowsey.

[MU82]

Because again, sure if it’s a 2 point game at half and Rowsey doesn’t have the second half he does we don’t win, but the only reason it wasn’t a 15 point game at half was because Rowsey was absolutely horrendous down the stretch of the first half. Waters was absolutely lighting us up...and it didn’t matter at all. We had a double digit lead the entire first half...until Rowsey started playing like he’d never played beyond the high school freshman level. I’m glad he got hot in the second half and went to the line a ton. I’m disappointed his play made the second half something it didn’t need to be.

MU is up 10 with 6 minutes left in the first half. Back to back turnover by Rowsey lead to back to back buckets by LSU to cut the game to 6. From there we score 4 more points the rest of the half, Rowsey turns the ball over once more, and then he opens up the second half with a turnover and I believe Wojo went to the bench right away. He was the only reason the game ever got close, and then yes he did help lead us to victory after that, but he was BAAAAAAAAD in letting them cut into a double digit lead.

First, thanks for changing your narrative on Rowsey. In your first post, it was "Rowsey's first half was so absolutely awful." Later, you said: "He was absolutely terrible in the first half." But then when statistics were provided to show that no, Rowsey was neither awful nor absolutely terrible more most of the first half, you switched to "his godawful play to close out the first half," and "absolutely horrendous down the stretch of the first half." In today's fact-averse world, it's nice to see somebody accept facts as facts and alter his viewpoint.

However ...

Let's say I give you the argument that Rowsey's horrible play at the end of the first half was the only reason the game was close. Does he not get some of the credit for us building our 10-point lead with 6 minutes to go in the half? In the first 14 minutes, he was 2-3 (both 3s) with 3A and 1 TO to that point and the offense was running pretty smoothly with him at the helm. And you have already acknowledged the obvious - that he carried us in the second half.

So Rowsey was one of our best players as we built a double-digit lead, he was bad - or even godawful and horrendous - as we blew most of it, but he was great as we pulled away to an impressive victory. He played 31 minutes, all but 5-6 outstanding minutes, and finished with a very efficient 30 points. That's STOG stuff.

Using 20/20 hindsight, I will now acknowledge that if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't make it seem crazy to have even considered Sacar or Matt. They played well, too.

That's all I've got on the subject. Enjoy the rest of your Thanksgiving!

[Lennys Tap]

It we use thr NBA 2K rating scale, I'd say we have 2 guys in the upper 80s to maybe low 90s - clear leaders and the guys you want to have the ball with the game on the line. We expect 22 and 8 out of these guys each night, fairly or not. So if they put up 25 and 10, we have people on the boards saying this is basically par for the course; we expect this.

Then, we have lots of guys in the 60s and 70s who may average 6 and 3 with 4 fouls and a few TOs. If one of these guys has 12 points, there are people who think this is an All American type performance, simply because he played better than his average.

SOTG shouldn't be a handicap kind of conversation, at least for me. It's about who made the biggest contribution in winning the game. Effort and heart matter, but in most cases, they don't make up the difference between a guy off the bench and a star. Apparently my criteria is different than some other people, though. Then again, I've always despised participation trophies too.

Agree 100%.

If the criterion for SOTG is who was the MVP Rowsey wins hands down. If the criterion is who, in victory, played the best relative to their average game then the winner is Sacar. For me it's always been the former.

[Markusquette]

Because again, sure if it’s a 2 point game at half and Rowsey doesn’t have the second half he does we don’t win, but the only reason it wasn’t a 15 point game at half was because Rowsey was absolutely horrendous down the stretch of the first half. Waters was absolutely lighting us up...and it didn’t matter at all. We had a double digit lead the entire first half...until Rowsey started playing like he’d never played beyond the high school freshman level. I’m glad he got hot in the second half and went to the line a ton. I’m disappointed his play made the second half something it didn’t need to be.

MU is up 10 with 6 minutes left in the first half. Back to back turnover by Rowsey lead to back to back buckets by LSU to cut the game to 6. From there we score 4 more points the rest of the half, Rowsey turns the ball over once more, and then he opens up the second half with a turnover and I believe Wojo went to the bench right away. He was the only reason the game ever got close, and then yes he did help lead us to victory after that, but he was BAAAAAAAAD in letting them cut into a double digit lead.

And as studs do they lead us back to victory. He made some mistakes but made up for them. I also don't think he was the "only" reason the game ever got close. Then I could argue he's the only reason we ended up winning.  SOTG, Rowsey.

[Markusquette]

That’s pretty dumb reasoning. So someone who is benched for poor play is automatically disqualified? They can’t regroup and be the most important player in a game?


So we shouldn’t have opinions on this?  It should simply be left up to mubb?

The explanation is simple. We win even without Sacar. We lose without Rowsey.

At least you're getting it.

[wadesworld]

Ask anyone within the Warriors organization who their most important player is. Surely it has to be KD or Steph, right? Nope. That’s nuts, it has to be one of those two, but fine then it’s clearly Klay. Oh no? Nope, it’s not the 26 PPG, 25 PPG, or 20 PPG guys. It’s the guy averaging 10 PPG.

The guy who scores a lot of points isn’t always the best player on the court. There’s no way to know we don’t win without Rowsey. Without him, we’re most likely up double digits going into the half instead of up 2. To go along with his 5 first half turnovers he also tried to force #thething and didn’t get the defender jumping into him, which in my opinion should’ve been a 6th turnover by goes as a missed field goal. Whole different ballgame if we’re up 10+ to start the second half.

[MU82]

Ask anyone within the Warriors organization who their most important player is. Surely it has to be KD or Steph, right? Nope. That’s nuts, it has to be one of those two, but fine then it’s clearly Klay. Oh no? Nope, it’s not the 26 PPG, 25 PPG, or 20 PPG guys. It’s the guy averaging 10 PPG.

Michael used to say that Scottie was the Bulls' MVP. Do you believe him?

[wadesworld]

Michael used to say that Scottie was the Bulls' MVP. Do you believe him?

Michael might’ve. But did Phil, Kerr, the owners, the GM?

[brewcity77]

Michael used to say that Scottie was the Bulls' MVP. Do you believe him?

I'd say Jordan was the MVP, but they don't win those titles without Scottie there too.

[Markusquette]

Ask anyone within the Warriors organization who their most important player is. Surely it has to be KD or Steph, right? Nope. That’s nuts, it has to be one of those two, but fine then it’s clearly Klay. Oh no? Nope, it’s not the 26 PPG, 25 PPG, or 20 PPG guys. It’s the guy averaging 10 PPG.

The guy who scores a lot of points isn’t always the best player on the court. There’s no way to know we don’t win without Rowsey. Without him, we’re most likely up double digits going into the half instead of up 2. To go along with his 5 first half turnovers he also tried to force #thething and didn’t get the defender jumping into him, which in my opinion should’ve been a 6th turnover by goes as a missed field goal. Whole different ballgame if we’re up 10+ to start the second half.

KD is more important to the Warriors than Draymond. Rowsey is currently our best player.  He was the main factor leading to the win yesterday. The efficiency and bounce back in the second half was huge.  Sacar Anim played great relative to Anim. To say we don't know what would have happened without him...well we probably would have lost by at least 10 if I had to guess on this hypothetical. Let's revisit SOTG in March and see the standings.

[wadesworld]

KD is more important to the Warriors than Draymond. Rowsey is currently our best player.  He was the main factor leading to the win yesterday. The efficiency and bounce back in the second half was huge.  Sacar Anim played great relative to Anim. To say we don't know what would have happened without him...well we probably would have lost by at least 10 if I had to guess on this hypothetical. Let's revisit SOTG in March and see the standings.

Revisit for what reason? If Rowsey has more SOTGs than Anim it clears up who was SOTG for this game? Okay I guess...?

[Markusquette]

Revisit for what reason? If Rowsey has more SOTGs than Anim it clears up who was SOTG for this game? Okay I guess...?

No you just started arguing two separate points. A player's importance to their team regardless of the game vs. a single game stud. Judging by the latest SOTG you're in the minority anyway. Anim played his best game as a golden eagle. I'll leave it as that.

[jsglow]

 

[GGGG]

Ask anyone within the Warriors organization who their most important player is. Surely it has to be KD or Steph, right? Nope. That’s nuts, it has to be one of those two, but fine then it’s clearly Klay. Oh no? Nope, it’s not the 26 PPG, 25 PPG, or 20 PPG guys. It’s the guy averaging 10 PPG.

The guy who scores a lot of points isn’t always the best player on the court. There’s no way to know we don’t win without Rowsey. Without him, we’re most likely up double digits going into the half instead of up 2. To go along with his 5 first half turnovers he also tried to force #thething and didn’t get the defender jumping into him, which in my opinion should’ve been a 6th turnover by goes as a missed field goal. Whole different ballgame if we’re up 10+ to start the second half.

You are right. The guy who scores the most points isn’t always the SOTG.

Yesterday he was though.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Being in Maui and watching live versus watching on tv really gives varied perspectives. I will bet if we had a poll here on MVP segmented by where you watched the game, Sacar wins hands down by those in the stands, and it wouldn't even be close.  No one else could shut down Waters, and he hit some key shots on offense. I know everyone I talked with after the game felt the same (including the coaches).

That's is not to diminish Andrew's great play in the tournament. In fact, he was the only Warrior named to the All Tournament team.