Chones

[Galway Eagle]

Just for the record, I absolutely don't blame Chones for bolting and I would have done so myself.

All I was throwing out there for discussion was that Chones DID quit on a potential NCAA championship team. I don't think he was wrong to do so. Nor do I think McCaffrey was "wrong" to "quit" on a Sun Bowl team or Henry was "wrong" to "quit" on a potential top-20 MU team.

College kids with legitimate professional aspirations need to take care of No. 1. That's why they go to college - to better themselves.

Now don't get me started about coaches who talk "loyalty" 24/7 and then bolt in the middle of a contract.

I'm noticing vander isn't on the no fault list

[GGGG]

I'm noticing vander isn't on the no fault list

Vander didn't leave mid-season so I'm not sure how it is relevant to this discussion.

[Galway Eagle]

Vander didn't leave mid-season so I'm not sure how it is relevant to this discussion.

Neither did Henry but he listed him

[GGGG]

Granted.  I guess he didn't mean his list to be exhaustive.  Just making the point.

[Jay Bee]

Just for the record, I absolutely don't blame Chones for bolting and I would have done so myself.

All I was throwing out there for discussion was that Chones DID quit on a potential NCAA championship team. I don't think he was wrong to do so. Nor do I think McCaffrey was "wrong" to "quit" on a Sun Bowl team or Henry was "wrong" to "quit" on a potential top-20 MU team.

College kids with legitimate professional aspirations need to take care of No. 1. That's why they go to college - to better themselves.

Now don't get me started about coaches who talk "loyalty" 24/7 and then bolt in the middle of a contract.

Your views on college athletics have clouded your views on this. These three player situations are not analogous and the coaching comment has zero do with it, either.

McCaffrey could have done both - played with his team while getting ready for the draft and he reported had a $5 million payout coming if he slipped past #40 in the draft.

Chones was in a unique situation and there are compelling reasons as to why the timing worked out as it did.

Henry completed his season and did something very common and something that was expected by many prior to his arrival on campus.

If McCaffrey had done what Henry and so many basketball and football players do, no issue. He quit during the season even though he didn't have to in order to be drafted and play in the NFL. ARREST HIM!

[dgies9156]

All I was throwing out there for discussion was that Chones DID quit on a potential NCAA championship team.

MU, I understand what you are trying to say but your phrase has so many connotative meanings that your journalism professors would have gone nuts.

For the record, Mr. Chones did not quit on our team. If you think he did, then you better state that Al McGuire quit on the team too because it was Coach McGuire that urged Mr. Chones to turn pro.

Mr. Chones accepted the advice of the one university employee he trusted the most -- Coach McGuire. Dean Smith had the same discussion after Michael Jordan's junior year. Mr. Jordan wanted to come back but Mr. Smith told Mr. Jordan, "Chicago needs a hero."  And we got one.

Mr. Chones should have his number in the rafters as a player who really was someone special. I wished he had been with us for three years and re-discussing this opened some very sore wounds, but as an adult, businessman and human being, I fully understand why Mr. Chones left when he did. Oh, and by the way, he did get his degree.

[GGGG]

Mr. Chones accepted the advice of the one university employee he trusted the most -- Coach McGuire. Dean Smith had the same discussion after Michael Jordan's junior year. Mr. Jordan wanted to come back but Mr. Smith told Mr. Jordan, "Chicago needs a hero."  And we got one.

How did Dean Smith know that Jordan would drop to pick #3?

[Herman Cain]

MU, I understand what you are trying to say but your phrase has so many connotative meanings that your journalism professors would have gone nuts.

For the record, Mr. Chones did not quit on our team. If you think he did, then you better state that Al McGuire quit on the team too because it was Coach McGuire that urged Mr. Chones to turn pro.

Mr. Chones accepted the advice of the one university employee he trusted the most -- Coach McGuire. Dean Smith had the same discussion after Michael Jordan's junior year. Mr. Jordan wanted to come back but Mr. Smith told Mr. Jordan, "Chicago needs a hero."  And we got one.

Mr. Chones should have his number in the rafters as a player who really was someone special. I wished he had been with us for three years and re-discussing this opened some very sore wounds, but as an adult, businessman and human being, I fully understand why Mr. Chones left when he did. Oh, and by the way, he did get his degree.

To further emphasize this point, when the offer came along Chones did not want to take it. Al told him he had to take it for his family. 

This whole situation was a case where the expression what comes around goes around. Several years later , Roy Boe the owner of the Nets who signed Chones , was forced to sell Dr.Js contract to the 76rs , as he needed the money to be able to pay the Nets entry fee into the NBA. Boe was also the owner of the Islanders at the time and was having overall financial difficulties and was trying to hold onto both teams. He was ultimately unsuccessful and had to give up the Islanders just as they went on their championship run.

[dgies9156]

How did Dean Smith know that Jordan would drop to pick #3?

He asked. At the time, the NBA drafted centers first as game changers. Sam Bowie was drafted ahead of Jordan and I forget who else.

Smith knew Jordan would be a Top 5 pick, which was his criteria for recommending his guys leave the program.

He knew because he asked.

[oldwarrior81]

a guy named Olajuwon went #1 in the draft ahead of Bowie and Jordan.

[dgies9156]

I am amazed at how, 46 years after the fact, the Chones decision still evokes the kind of emotion seen on this thread. It's amazing! Time does not heal all wounds.

The facts are the facts. An offer was there. Mr. Chones and his family were very poor.

A final opinion. Can you imagine what would have happened if it became public that Mr. Chones turned down the ABA offer?

Even after Mr. Chones left, Bob Lackey, a forward on that team was under NCAA investigation and forced to sign an agreement saying he did not hire an agent. That effort was reportedly the result of Adolph "the Bigot" Rupp at Kentucky, who hated Al and knew what was coming if he had to play MU in the Mideast Regional.

Had Mr. Chones turned the ABA down, Rupp and his NCAA boys likely would have been all over Marquette like a cheap suit. At issue would have been what discussions went on between Mr. Chones and the ABA, if any. The other question would have been an investigation as to whether any side deals or secret deals were cut between Mr. Chones and the ABA that would have allowed him to play through the season. My opinion is because our team was predominantly African-American, many would have made up allegations to derail Marquette. The distractions around our team would have been enormous and the probability we would have slipped high.

If you doubt me, go listen to the rant by Coach McGuire after we played Kansas State in the 1977 NCAAs. It was the first time Coach McGuire blew off steam that way and the viciousness with which he went after the NCAA was unparalleled. I suspect some of the pent up rage dating to this situation was a factor in that tirade.

As a side note, has Jim Chones ever opened up about this moment in his career? I know the story but has there even been feature length articles about it? If so, could someone post the URL?

Thanks

[rocket surgeon]

I am amazed at how, 46 years after the fact, the Chones decision still evokes the kind of emotion seen on this thread. It's amazing! Time does not heal all wounds.

The facts are the facts. An offer was there. Mr. Chones and his family were very poor.

A final opinion. Can you imagine what would have happened if it became public that Mr. Chones turned down the ABA offer?

Even after Mr. Chones left, Bob Lackey, a forward on that team was under NCAA investigation and forced to sign an agreement saying he did not hire an agent. That effort was reportedly the result of Adolph "the Bigot" Rupp at Kentucky, who hated Al and knew what was coming if he had to play MU in the Mideast Regional.

Had Mr. Chones turned the ABA down, Rupp and his NCAA boys likely would have been all over Marquette like a cheap suit. At issue would have been what discussions went on between Mr. Chones and the ABA, if any. The other question would have been an investigation as to whether any side deals or secret deals were cut between Mr. Chones and the ABA that would have allowed him to play through the season. My opinion is because our team was predominantly African-American, many would have made up allegations to derail Marquette. The distractions around our team would have been enormous and the probability we would have slipped high.

If you doubt me, go listen to the rant by Coach McGuire after we played Kansas State in the 1977 NCAAs. It was the first time Coach McGuire blew off steam that way and the viciousness with which he went after the NCAA was unparalleled. I suspect some of the pent up rage dating to this situation was a factor in that tirade.

As a side note, has Jim Chones ever opened up about this moment in his career? I know the story but has there even been feature length articles about it? If so, could someone post the URL?

Thanks

great perspective dog!  there are many examples of people questioning decisions made in the past when historical perspective is lost or forgotten.  ya had to be there in the moment.  it is not fair for a  "revisionist" to opine from today's perspective.  1972 NEEDS to be part of the equation

[Billy Hoyle]

How did Dean Smith know that Jordan would drop to pick #3?

At the time the top 2 was decided by a coin flip. That was between Houston and Portland. Chicago was locked in at 3. Houston was not going to pass on Akeem. Portland had Drexler and wanted a center, dunce you needed a Big to win at that time. Chicago was not going to pass on MJ.

[GGGG]

I am amazed at how, 46 years after the fact, the Chones decision still evokes the kind of emotion seen on this thread. It's amazing! Time does not heal all wounds.

The facts are the facts. An offer was there. Mr. Chones and his family were very poor.

A final opinion. Can you imagine what would have happened if it became public that Mr. Chones turned down the ABA offer?

Even after Mr. Chones left, Bob Lackey, a forward on that team was under NCAA investigation and forced to sign an agreement saying he did not hire an agent. That effort was reportedly the result of Adolph "the Bigot" Rupp at Kentucky, who hated Al and knew what was coming if he had to play MU in the Mideast Regional.

Had Mr. Chones turned the ABA down, Rupp and his NCAA boys likely would have been all over Marquette like a cheap suit. At issue would have been what discussions went on between Mr. Chones and the ABA, if any. The other question would have been an investigation as to whether any side deals or secret deals were cut between Mr. Chones and the ABA that would have allowed him to play through the season. My opinion is because our team was predominantly African-American, many would have made up allegations to derail Marquette. The distractions around our team would have been enormous and the probability we would have slipped high.

If you doubt me, go listen to the rant by Coach McGuire after we played Kansas State in the 1977 NCAAs. It was the first time Coach McGuire blew off steam that way and the viciousness with which he went after the NCAA was unparalleled. I suspect some of the pent up rage dating to this situation was a factor in that tirade.

As a side note, has Jim Chones ever opened up about this moment in his career? I know the story but has there even been feature length articles about it? If so, could someone post the URL?

Thanks

Has anyone said he made the wrong decision?

[bilsu]

Has anyone said he made the wrong decision?

I was going to MU at the time. I ran into Marcus Washington in the old gym and asked him if he felt cheated by Chones going pro. He said no, it simply was too much money to turn down.

[Newsdreams]

I was going to MU at the time. I ran into Marcus Washington in the old gym and asked him if he felt cheated by Chones going pro. He said no, it simply was too much money to turn down.

It was crazy money. Equivalent today $8.5 to $9 million.

[MU82]

Your views on college athletics have clouded your views on this. These three player situations are not analogous and the coaching comment has zero do with it, either.

McCaffrey could have done both - played with his team while getting ready for the draft and he reported had a $5 million payout coming if he slipped past #40 in the draft.

Chones was in a unique situation and there are compelling reasons as to why the timing worked out as it did.

Henry completed his season and did something very common and something that was expected by many prior to his arrival on campus.

If McCaffrey had done what Henry and so many basketball and football players do, no issue. He quit during the season even though he didn't have to in order to be drafted and play in the NFL. ARREST HIM!

I only mentioned Henry because somebody had mentioned him earlier. I agree his situation was not analgous (great word, BTW). Nor was that of Jordan, whom another Scooper also brought up.

Your views ofnMcCaffrey have clouded your views on this. You have chosen to dislike him intensely and therefore cannot be objective. You and I simply disagree on McCaffrey. I would have done exactly what he did. He got more than twice that $5 million from the Panthers in signing bonus alone. The effen Sun Bowl. Please.

Chones did have a unique situation, and it's why this has been such a fun, interesting comment stream.

The word "quit" evokes a lot of emotions. He was the star of a 21-0 team with legitimate championship aspirations. He left that team.

Definition: Quit: 1, leave (a place), usually permanently; 2, resign from (a job); 3, stop or discontinue (an action or activity).

Chones was 3 for 3!

I know there were extenuating circumstances. I know Al told him he should leave. But he did leave a great team in the middle of a season.

And I would have done exactly what he did, too!

Oh, and yes my reference to hypocrite coaches really had nothing to do with anything. I just like throwing it out there. They are the worst quitters of all!

[Goose]

I cried the night I learned he was going pro the next day and now think it was one of the greatest things Al ever did at MU. Aside from helping Jimmy and his family, it showed what the players meant to Al. I have been lucky enough to know many former Al players and every one still holds Al in lofty regard.