Kaepernick Gives Up

[B. McBannerson]

He accused some cops of murder.  Which is actually a truthful statement.

Yes, it is a truthful claim, but that isn't what he said.  While also wearing Pig socks and making other such statements, he wasn't winning many hearts and minds with law enforcement backers in this country.  Recall he also mentioned officers are on paid leave.  This is normal course of business, same for a teacher or other employee accused of misconduct while they investigate. Showed a lack of misunderstanding on his part in my opinion.  He has a right to his opinion, he can even play judge and jury, which he did with his comments.  How many officers were declared guilty only to be found in an actual court of law, not guilty?

The NFL or future employers can also decide if he is worth the risk based on his actions on and off the field.

My sense is his heart is in the right place, but his execution was poor. 

[GGGG]

My sense is his heart is in the right place, but his execution was poor. 

I agree with you 100% on that statement.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Probable cause? Kinda a grey area, hey?

Yes.  But not nearly as grey as you seem to think

[ATL MU Warrior]

Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.

Educated, intelligent people should not resort to this

[Jockey]

Educated, intelligent people should not resort to this

"Educated" and "intelligent" are the key word here.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Here's the thing though, even if you don't run, cops can be very trigger/gun happy.

I had had exactly one run it with the cops and it wasn't pleasant. I was working at a summer camp in Wisconsin and during my night out I was walking into town. During the time I was walking, around camp someone who worked there put in a call saying that there was someone walking around the camp ground in the woods. (turns out it was just one of the full time directors walking their job)

Anyways, I'm walking down the road which is essentially a state highway and from behind me I hear "stop, turn around and turn your hands up".

Obviously there's a cop there and I do as I'm told, however at some point during the 15 foot walk between where I was and the cop car, apparently I did something that warranted him to pull out his gun, point it at me and then throw me against the hood of the car to get searched. I literally did nothing but comply with what he said.

He proceeded to take me back to camp and I'm sitting with the program director and this cop while the cop is yelling in my face saying he knows I was the one in the woods running around trying to get me to confess to something I didn't do, just because I "matched the description."

Point being, just because somebody is running that should not warrant "any force necessary" cops are effing scary, I am not an intimidating looking person in the slightest (ask glow or chick) and I had a gun pulled on me by a cop unprovoked. I can understand why some people run, because they fear for their lives.

[Golden Avalanche]

Here's the lesson that needs to be taught and understood. Do not run from the police.

Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.

[jficke13]

[...]
Point being, just because somebody is running that should not warrant "any force necessary" cops are effing scary, I am not an intimidating looking person in the slightest (ask glow or chick) and I had a gun pulled on me by a cop unprovoked. I can understand why some people run, because they fear for their lives.

This discussion is going way afield, and definitely skewing into lock-flirting-territory, but Chitown is right. I want nothing more than a lawful society, but I'm healthily skeptical of state powers. The state is cloaked with such an overwhelming power that there is no good interaction with the police as a citizen. Hands up, ask for lawyer, pray silently.

[4everwarriors]

Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.

Dude, you're the first to bring up race. My original premise is that he meshed up prosperity and I laid into him for doing so as I have done many times before with people such as Tiger, Manziel, Crosby, and Leaf, et al.

[rocket surgeon]

Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.

[StillAWarrior]

This discussion is going way afield, and definitely skewing into lock-flirting-territory, but Chitown is right. I want nothing more than a lawful society, but I'm healthily skeptical of state powers. The state is cloaked with such an overwhelming power that there is no good interaction with the police as a citizen. Hands up, ask for lawyer, pray silently.

Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.

[rocket surgeon]

Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.

  very well stated

[mu03eng]

This makes my point.
How many of those other players can you name (without looking it up)? Unlike Kaepernik, those other players were not front and center in the national debate. So their signings would be unlikely to create much of a stir.
Also, how many of those other players were free agents?

What beyond the protest do you consider the general Kaepernik clown show? His former coaches like Harbaugh and Chip Kelly have nothing but praise for him as a professional and teammate. Some quotes from a recent SI story:

“Every day his car would be the first one in the parking lot,” says Jim Harbaugh, who almost won Super Bowl 47 with Kaepernick in San Francisco before moving on to the University of Michigan. “He’d be studying film and he’d be working out in the morning. I mean, no later than 5:45. He was already in a full lather when I would see him.”

“There was zero distraction,” Kelly says. “He met with the team immediately after [his first protest]. He met with the other team leaders. He explained his position and where he was coming from. And literally, that was it. Colin was focused on football. He was all about the team and trying to help us win.”

Harbaugh says of his time coaching Kaepernick: “It got to the point where nobody could challenge him in a workout. Otherwise, he’d bring them to their knees. Like in running workouts—nobody could hang with him. Nobody was in the kind of shape he was.

“When Colin is with us, he is 100 percent football,” Kelly says. “There’s not, ‘Hey, Coach, I don’t have time for this.’ That was never him. [The protest] never affected how he worked or what our workplace was like. And that’s a credit to Colin.”

Marcellus Bennett didn't kneel but raised his fist in protest. He signed with the Packers as a free agent.

As far as kneelers I think one was Marshall from the Broncos, either way it was a starting linebacker. There was a gentlemen from the Dolphins, several Eagles and someone from Kansas City. Not sure other than Marshall I knew who the players were before they knelt either.

Not NFL but Megan Rapinoe knelt as well.

The clown show is all the stuff that happened around the protest, that again I'm going off memory:
- Not voting in a national or local election after being vocal about the direction of the country
-saying Hitler and Trump were no different (after saying he didn't vote because there was no difference in the candidates)
-wearing a Fidel Castro tshirt
- the continuously mentioned pig socks
-i also thought I remembered mixed explanation of why he was kneeling, etc

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

If he's such a great teammate and is better than average why would coaches and GMs not want him? What possible motivation would there be for every team to collude and black ball him?

[jficke13]

Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.

You did notice above that I'm not supporting Kapernick in the slightest? I'm the guy saying "yes he's been blackballed, and yes he ought to be; he's not worth it."

I'm confident you've misread my leanings in almost every way. Despite that, I stand by the fact that unless you absolutely have to, you should never interact with someone with license to deprive you of life and liberty. If you have to do so, you would be wise to so very carefully. The stakes cannot be higher.

[Anti-Dentite]

Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.

I am, you're wrong and probable cause would be an observed weapon in hand that is not dropped after commanded to.

[Tugg Speedman]

Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...

He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract.  The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp.  No one wants this headache.

So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down).  Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.

This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon.  That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.


This made sense to me.  Thoughts?

[Benny B]

Yeah, as a legal concept it's only been around a few hundred years or so, and there are only about a half dozen Supreme Court decisions detailing its definition.

Half a dozen seems pretty indicative of a gray area... after all, if it was cut and dry, you'd think they could have stopped after one or two. Three tops.  But six?

[Lennys Tap]

Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...

He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract.  The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp.  No one wants this headache.

So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down).  Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.

This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon.  That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.


This made sense to me.  Thoughts?

Makes perfect sense. As such, sticks out like a sore thumb in this thread.

[Jockey]

Marcellus Bennett didn't kneel but raised his fist in protest. He signed with the Packers as a free agent.

As far as kneelers I think one was Marshall from the Broncos, either way it was a starting linebacker. There was a gentlemen from the Dolphins, several Eagles and someone from Kansas City. Not sure other than Marshall I knew who the players were before they knelt either.

Not NFL but Megan Rapinoe knelt as well.

The clown show is all the stuff that happened around the protest, that again I'm going off memory:
- Not voting in a national or local election after being vocal about the direction of the country
-saying Hitler and Trump were no different (after saying he didn't vote because there was no difference in the candidates)
-wearing a Fidel Castro tshirt
- the continuously mentioned pig socks
-i also thought I remembered mixed explanation of why he was kneeling, etc

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

If he's such a great teammate and is better than average why would coaches and GMs not want him? What possible motivation would there be for every team to collude and black ball him?

In the Superbar, Eng, you are one of the go-to guys for me (along with a couple of others). You have reasonable and thoughtful takes on most everything.

But here, I don't think you could be any more wrong. This is a classic case of blackballing, plain and simple. Pete Carroll said he wouldn't sign Colin because he was too good and deserved to start in the NFL.

If Pete believes that, and I think he does, then Colin would be exactly the guy that a coach would want to sign. Very few teams have the luxury of having a backup with starter talent. No, I am guessing that an old, white guy - the owner - laid down the law. Blackballed!!

There are approximately 75 QBs in the NFL. Colin is probably in the #20-#30 range among them all. Yet no one even wants to sign him. Blackballed!!

Owners gladly hand out million dollar contracts to rapists, serial abusers of women and plain old fashioned wife and child beaters, yet Colin doesn't even get any nibbles. Blackballed!!

About as classic of a case as you will ever see.

This is as much a societal problem as it is a sports issue. I never cease to be amazed how millions hired a creep who openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, but then use their distorted moral judgement to try to destroy a man who has committed no crime. A man who has given immense amounts of money to charity, a man who has done many good works in his life.

Cub fans had no issue with supporting a wife beater, Steeler fan have no issue supporting a rapist, Cowboy fans had no issue with supporting a violent abuser of women,yet we are so so so morally indignant over what Kaepernik did.

Shame on us.

[Skitch]

  no one picked up gary brell after his stint with MU either, ein'er?

I know it was sarcasm but in fairness to Gary he was drafted by the Bucks.

[Pakuni]

Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...

He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract.  The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp.  No one wants this headache.

So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down).  Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.

This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon.  That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.


This made sense to me.  Thoughts?

Someone in this thread said several times that the reason teams aren't signing Kap isn't because he's good enough, but because they view his signing as a huge distraction.
Hmmm, I wonder who that exceptionally wise poster was .....

[Pakuni]

Half a dozen seems pretty indicative of a gray area... after all, if it was cut and dry, you'd think they could have stopped after one or two. Three tops.  But six?

Nope. It's actually quite the opposite. Each new ruling builds upon the prior to further establish clarity of the law.
To put it simply, federal legislation that the Supreme Court has never weighed in on is likely far more ambiguous than one they're ruled on repeatedly.

[mu03eng]

Someone in this thread said several times that the reason teams aren't signing Kap isn't because he's good enough, but because they view his signing as a huge distraction.
Hmmm, I wonder who that exceptionally wise poster was .....

This is an admittedly catty response but it's good to see that Heisey's anecdotal "evidence" is relevant when it supports your theory of the crime.

[mu03eng]

In the Superbar, Eng, you are one of the go-to guys for me (along with a couple of others). You have reasonable and thoughtful takes on most everything.

But here, I don't think you could be any more wrong. This is a classic case of blackballing, plain and simple. Pete Carroll said he wouldn't sign Colin because he was too good and deserved to start in the NFL.

If Pete believes that, and I think he does, then Colin would be exactly the guy that a coach would want to sign. Very few teams have the luxury of having a backup with starter talent. No, I am guessing that an old, white guy - the owner - laid down the law. Blackballed!!

There are approximately 75 QBs in the NFL. Colin is probably in the #20-#30 range among them all. Yet no one even wants to sign him. Blackballed!!

Owners gladly hand out million dollar contracts to rapists, serial abusers of women and plain old fashioned wife and child beaters, yet Colin doesn't even get any nibbles. Blackballed!!

About as classic of a case as you will ever see.

This is as much a societal problem as it is a sports issue. I never cease to be amazed how millions hired a creep who openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, but then use their distorted moral judgement to try to destroy a man who has committed no crime. A man who has given immense amounts of money to charity, a man who has done many good works in his life.

Cub fans had no issue with supporting a wife beater, Steeler fan have no issue supporting a rapist, Cowboy fans had no issue with supporting a violent abuser of women,yet we are so so so morally indignant over what Kaepernik did.

Shame on us.

Thank you for the compliment, and for the record I'm 100% ready to be wrong.....I'm usually wrong more than I'm not so it's something I've come to terms with 

Maybe I'm getting overly semantic, but when we throw around the term black ball, that evokes to me a conspiracy of all GMs and Coaches to keep Kaepernick from playing in the league and that is where I'm not ready to go. I have no doubt (rightly or wrongly) that some, if not all organizations within the NFL have chosen not to sign him to a contract because of the baggage that comes with him at this time. Where I think this talk of black balling goes to far is the idea that the NFL or the teams are collectively and intentionally keep him out of the league. Again, I'm prepared to be wrong but I just don't buy a conspiracy.

And as I've said before, there have been a number of "troublesome" or outspoken players that have remained in the league. Marcellus Bennett is a perfect example, he didn't show up at the White House because of Trump, he joined in the anthem protests and has some "controversial" opinions and yet he is welcomed with open arms into one of the more cautious or conservative organizations in the league.

Lastly, I have no doubt that Kaepernick's outspoken nature has impacted his standing in the league. Where I struggle how much of it is due to the flag protest itself and how much is "other stuff"

[Pakuni]

This is an admittedly catty response but it's good to see that Heisey's anecdotal "evidence" is relevant when it supports your theory of the crime.

So if I disagree with Heisey on many things, I must therefore argue that every single thing he says is wrong?