Recruiting and the Death Spiral

[connie]

There is a great deal of work still ahead for this program. I'm not giving up on Wojo, but think it is fair to be highly concerned. For those with high expectations for next year, I think you have very blind faith. Losing Luke is going to hurt far more than most want to admit.

Well if this year's freshmen progress like last year's we are in for a whole new world of hurt, and we won't have to worry about "starting over."

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

There is a great deal of work still ahead for this program. I'm not giving up on Wojo, but think it is fair to be highly concerned. For those with high expectations for next year, I think you have very blind faith. Losing Luke is going to hurt far more than most want to admit.

I absolutely disagree with the feelings on luke, no surprise?  I feel the same way with jjj.  I feel they are both horrible for the program.  Luke is a total choker. If he had a wide open layup to win a game hed find a way to choke it away and jjj is simply the lowest IQ player i have ever seen in 40 years of follwing MU.  Neither one of them show a single ounce of leadership, they are not part of the solution, in fact they are the biggest part of the problem.  While they might have some of the most ability these type of players are toxic to winning.  They are not winners.  Again probably wonderful kids but they do none of the things that winning players do.  They are our leaders, we are where we are because of them, they need to go. 

[brewcity77]

Yeah, but are 2 more wins enough for the NIT? (and getting two will be no cake walk).

Maybe this will be a wake-up call and we'll run the table.

I think 4 locks us into the tournament, 3 has us either on the bubble and in or a solid NIT seed, 2 gives us a legit NIT chance depending on how the auto bids tumble.

[Big Papi]

I think 4 locks us into the tournament, 3 has us either on the bubble and in or a solid NIT seed, 2 gives us a legit NIT chance depending on how the auto bids tumble.

Very soft bubble this year but we need to win games.  Agree on the number of wins for NCAA.  Ever since the NIT changed their rules to favor mid-majors, I don't think we are in the NIT with 2 wins.  A 17 win season is just not enough.  I think it is 4 = NCAA, 3=NIT 2= 4year drought.  With likelihood being 10%/35%/55%.

[Goose]

Luke is a very legit D1 center. He may be frustrating to many on here but it does not take away the fact he is legit. Will take it a step further and say one of the better ones MU has had over the past 20+ years.

[Dawson Rental]

I would be worried when Sam looks at his line and sees 2 shot attempts and Reinhardt launching 11.  His parents and brother certainly take note

Because you think that Reinhardt is a freshman?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Luke is a very legit D1 center. He may be frustrating to many on here but it does not take away the fact he is legit. Will take it a step further and say one of the better ones MU has had over the past 20+ years.

Luke was 3-9 today all from less than 5 feet and he cannot play defnse

[brewcity77]

Very soft bubble this year but we need to win games.  Agree on the number of wins for NCAA.  Ever since the NIT changed their rules to favor mid-majors, I don't think we are in the NIT with 2 wins.  A 17 win season is just not enough.  I think it is 4 = NCAA, 3=NIT 2= 4year drought.  With likelihood being 10%/35%/55%.

I do think BET wins help us more for the NIT. Get 2 + 1 at MSG and I think we're pretty solid for the NIT. I'm less confident about 3 + 1 = NCAA.

[Big Papi]

Luke was 3-9 today all from less than 5 feet and he cannot play defnse

Fisher is a very solid center who will be missed a lot next year.  He could of been more but shoulder injuries robbed him of his ability to get stronger during off-seasons.

[bilsu]

I think this year's the team has showed progress. We beat the number one team in the country. We got thumped badly today, but that happen much more often last year. Wojo does have to tweek his recruiting emphasis. We need a real point guard and more athletic physical front court players.

[Goose]

Sand Knit

Like it or not Luke is legit D1 center. I have seen as many stiffs play that position over the last 40 years as I did QB's pre Favre. Trust me, I am going out to buy a Luke jersey anytime soon but he is better than most.

[WayOfTheWarrior]

Very soft bubble this year but we need to win games.  Agree on the number of wins for NCAA.  Ever since the NIT changed their rules to favor mid-majors, I don't think we are in the NIT with 2 wins.  A 17 win season is just not enough.  I think it is 4 = NCAA, 3=NIT 2= 4year drought.  With likelihood being 10%/35%/55%.

I agree with your assessment.

The next thing to consider is how many Scoop trolls show up for each of those win scenarios:
4 wins = -10, 3 wins = -5, 2 wins = +15, 1 or less = troll angry mob

[GGGG]

Luke is a very legit D1 center. He may be frustrating to many on here but it does not take away the fact he is legit. Will take it a step further and say one of the better ones MU has had over the past 20+ years.

He's legit.  Over the last 20 years I would rank Robert Jackson and Davante Gardner as better. 

[Goose]

Vinnie

Gardner and Jackson different players but similar impact. My pony is based on him being a true 5. I prefer a Jackson or Gardner style but Luke is a true 5 and a good one by today's standards.

[nyg]

Luke was 3-9 today all from less than 5 feet and he cannot play defnse

Again, wait till next year and Heldt is the starting center for first ten games until Froling comes on board.  MU will miss Luke a lot more than you think. 

[brewcity77]

He's legit.  Over the last 20 years I would rank Robert Jackson and Davante Gardner as better.

Jackson for sure, Davante...maybe. As slow laterally as Luke is, Davante was slower and less of a defender. And as amazing as Gardner was on offense, Luke was far more reliable from the field. Not sure how or why, and Davante made some crazy shots look effortless, but I think Luke just doesn't make his shots as circus like.

Gardner was better from the line, but FT% no matta. Gardner was helped massively by having Otule available for defensive possessions. Total package, I think it's Luke.

[#UnleashSean]

Luke is a very legit D1 center. He may be frustrating to many on here but it does not take away the fact he is legit. Will take it a step further and say one of the better ones MU has had over the past 20+ years.

Ehh Davante was heads and heels better. Robert Jackson maybe. Otule was much better at rebounding and defense (Didn't need him to score) 

[Warrior_2002]

I would be worried when Sam looks at his line and sees 2 shot attempts and Reinhardt launching 11.  His parents and brother certainly take note

But that will clear as Reinhardt is a bridge and Hauser is a freshman.  I think the Hausers are smart enough to see they can be the future at MU.

[Warrior_2002]

It's that I still realize making the NIT is progress this year, and that's still attrightble. It's not what any of us wanted, but objectively, if the question in November was "is making the NIT without Henry an improvement on 2016?" the absolute obvious answer is yes.

I try not to adjust my expectations because of a good day or two. Yes, I at one point hoped we could be a 6 seed and top 2-3 in the league, but the realist in me knows that NIT is progress just like First Four or traditional NCAA bid would be progress.

Thank you for your sanity.  I agree.  Want the NCAA bad but NIT after losing a 1 and done is progress. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would be worried when Sam looks at his line and sees 2 shot attempts and Reinhardt launching 11.  His parents and brother certainly take note

I don't think Sam is the type of player to worry about that kind of stuff.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This. There's a contingent here that needs to read up on the sunk cost fallacy. Having to "start over" is not reason not to get rid of a coach. Thinking the coach might still realize some potential is a reason not to get rid of a coach. But when you think a coach has fully reached his potential and you're not happy with it, you fire him as soon as you can.

Sunk cost fallacy is about resources already invested. Not about the future cost it would take to make a change.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Luke is a very legit D1 center. He may be frustrating to many on here but it does not take away the fact he is legit. Will take it a step further and say one of the better ones MU has had over the past 20+ years.

Goose and I don't always agree, but I definitely agree with this.

[77ncaachamps]

I would be worried when Sam looks at his line and sees 2 shot attempts and Reinhardt launching 11.  His parents and brother certainly take note

Katin is gone after this year. Not a big deal.

Actually, Hauser is seeing more time then I expected him to see this year.
He's integral to MU's success this year and next.

[brewcity77]

Ehh Davante was heads and heels better. Robert Jackson maybe. Otule was much better at rebounding and defense (Didn't need him to score)

Lower eFG%, at best equal rebounder, far far worse defender, and inferior conditioning. I get that Davante made some crazy circus shots and seemed kind a magical dancing bear at times, but as far as actually playing the game of basketball, how was he definitively better than Luke?

I'll grant that his scoring ability was more diverse, but I don't think it was in any way more effective, unless you are talking about getting to and converting at the line, to which I'd ask "who cares?"

[Herman Cain]

I absolutely disagree with the feelings on luke, no surprise?  I feel the same way with jjj.  I feel they are both horrible for the program.  Luke is a total choker. If he had a wide open layup to win a game hed find a way to choke it away and jjj is simply the lowest IQ player i have ever seen in 40 years of follwing MU.  Neither one of them show a single ounce of leadership, they are not part of the solution, in fact they are the biggest part of the problem.  While they might have some of the most ability these type of players are toxic to winning.  They are not winners.  Again probably wonderful kids but they do none of the things that winning players do.  They are our leaders, we are where we are because of them, they need to go.

I have not hesitated to share my dissatisfaction about coaches who are paid millions of dollars to put players in a position to maximize their talents. However, it is over the top to direct venom at college kids, who are a) giving max effort and b) have demonstrated  their ability and basketball competiveness.  These players have to play within the concept defined by the coaches. The Big East is a big boy league and there will be times other teams simply get the best of us .