Hosting an NIT game

[Goose]

Chico's five year plan held a lot more water years ago. One or two players can make a big time difference in today's game. I bought into a five year window a decade ago but no longer. My biggest issue is that really is not measurable improvement.
Folks can blame Buzz all they want but he had been gone for long time in today's sports world.

[muguru]

Glad more people are starting to see it...Wojo just isn't the answer. I was skeptical at the time that after the Shaka snub, that MU just "settled" after that. It was like they decided they just wanted to get it done quickly. I thought Wojo could recruit, but always questioned whether he could truly coach. I think we are seeing the answer. I know after 14 years, I am 90% going to not renew my season tickets next year..it's sad because it's truly a passion for me, but it's just so hard to watch Mike Deane level basketball again. After 7-8 years being in the tourney, 3 sweet 16's and an elite 8..never in my life did I think i would see MU fall to this level again. A year or two sure but this is at the point now where you seriously have to wonder if MU will ever get back to that level again, at least under Wojo. I'm not seeing it. And next year isn't going to be any better.

[bradley center bat]

Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.

[brewcity77]

This board is so mercurial. When it's good, we see it all coming together. When it's bad, it's all coming apart.

We hear that Wojo doesn't make adjustments, yet we've seen increased implementation of the 1-3-1 and today even the 2-3. We question his ability out of timeouts, yet pux shared an article this week showing decisively that Wojo is a better ATO offensive coach than Buzz ever was. We say there's no improvement when our offense has gone from allergic to scoring 2 years ago to truly elite this year.

No, it's not all pretty, but there are plenty of good signs to go along with the bad. For all the critics espousing the quick turnaround, I'll ask what I always ask. Who are these other great hires that would have us back on top in a year or two? And pardon me for laughing if Howland or Smart are mentioned

I'm not saying he's the answer, or that he's our Jay Wright, but if you haven't seen progress amidst the setbacks, you are being willfully blind. If you don't see the reconstruction of the roster and the elevation of talent, you aren't paying attention.

It's not easy, and today was infuriating to say the least, but there is still a visible plan in place.I'm willing to let it play out a bit longer. If we haven't turned the corner by 2019, then it's time to turn the page.

[Goose]

I am not sure if Wojo is a better basketball mind than Buzz or not. I was a Buzz guy not never felt he was a great ball mind. He brought in players with a chip on their shoulders and they played with an attitude.

[muguru]

Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.

Honestly, the new arena was why i even renewed this year, plus i also had hopes that maybe this team would sneak into the NCAAs this year. Thought i was going to be right after the Nova game, but what I have seen since, is completely disheartening, frustrating, and really gives me no hope that even by the time this program enters the new arena that they will be much better. Sure seeing the new arena would be nice, but it will mean nothing to me if MU is crap and can't win there. With an hour(ish) drive one way, every game being on TV now, fighting for parking, the cold, and most of all the product on the floor not being where I feel it should be..I just don't know if season tickets are worth it anymore, new arena or not. I'm about spent emotionally with this program..and that was even going thru the Deane days etc.

[Afroman]

Didn't Mike Deane get a team or two to the NCAA tourney?

[Facts are scary]

That's crap.  You guys are acting like worse losers than the team.

False. You can't handle the truth. No ground to stand on.

[bilsu]

If they do receive an NIT bid, they should reject it. No one wants to see this team play any longer than it absolutely has to.

If that is the case, why even go to Big East tournament?

[Goose]

Brew

I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.

[muguru]

Brew

I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.

Thank you Goose, you said it exactly how I feel/think. I too have a problem with the blindly optimistic ones as well. Personally, I think they know there are MAJOR issues with this program and it's direction right now, but won't admit that on these boards because "someone has to be objective". I would just like to see people call a spade a spade. That's all I'm asking. brew is an optimistic dude, hats off to him, he has a lot more patience than I do. He says progress has been made, and others have said it to, and though that may be the case, what is so hard to swallow is how close this program was to breaking into "elite" level under Buzz, just 5 years ago...so to go from THAT to what we currently have now, is a meteoric fall, and quite frankly I wonder if it can be said very often in CBB history that a program has fallen so far so fast. I know Buzz left the cupboard bare, but honestly, great Coaches have fixed programs quicker than this, it's not unprecedented at all.

If MU misses the dance again this year, that will leave only MU and DePaul that haven't made the dance in the first four years of the "new" BE, is that really something to be proud of, and the company MU wants to be keeping as a program??

[ecompt]

If that is the case, why even go to Big East tournament?

They have to go there. The league will not allow them to not show up for that first-round game.

[ecompt]

This board is so mercurial. When it's good, we see it all coming together. When it's bad, it's all coming apart.

We hear that Wojo doesn't make adjustments, yet we've seen increased implementation of the 1-3-1 and today even the 2-3. We question his ability out of timeouts, yet pux shared an article this week showing decisively that Wojo is a better ATO offensive coach than Buzz ever was. We say there's no improvement when our offense has gone from allergic to scoring 2 years ago to truly elite this year.

No, it's not all pretty, but there are plenty of good signs to go along with the bad. For all the critics espousing the quick turnaround, I'll ask what I always ask. Who are these other great hires that would have us back on top in a year or two? And pardon me for laughing if Howland or Smart are mentioned

I'm not saying he's the answer, or that he's our Jay Wright, but if you haven't seen progress amidst the setbacks, you are being willfully blind. If you don't see the reconstruction of the roster and the elevation of talent, you aren't paying attention.

It's not easy, and today was infuriating to say the least, but there is still a visible plan in place.I'm willing to let it play out a bit longer. If we haven't turned the corner by 2019, then it's time to turn the page.

I am sorry, I don't see the elevation of talent. Haanif has regressed and the freshmen have hit a wall. Froling and next year's three freshmen better be absolute studs playing 35 minutes a night or we'll be bottom feeder next season. 

[bilsu]

Honestly, the new arena was why i even renewed this year, plus i also had hopes that maybe this team would sneak into the NCAAs this year. Thought i was going to be right after the Nova game, but what I have seen since, is completely disheartening, frustrating, and really gives me no hope that even by the time this program enters the new arena that they will be much better. Sure seeing the new arena would be nice, but it will mean nothing to me if MU is crap and can't win there. With an hour(ish) drive one way, every game being on TV now, fighting for parking, the cold, and most of all the product on the floor not being where I feel it should be..I just don't know if season tickets are worth it anymore, new arena or not. I'm about spent emotionally with this program..and that was even going thru the Deane days etc.

The only thing that differs for me from what you wrote is that I did not think they would make the NCAA's this year and I thought I was going to be wrong after the Villanova win.

[Daniel]

I think Wojo, and the team, would benefit from having an ex-head coach on the bench, especially one who knows defense.  Buzz had his guy from Colorado, them Wainwright.   I think it would help.

[Goose]

Daniel

Agreed or recruit better players. 95% comes down to talent and we are lacking that to compete at high level on any kind of consistent manner.

[brewcity77]

I am sorry, I don't see the elevation of talent. Haanif has regressed and the freshmen have hit a wall. Froling and next year's three freshmen better be absolute studs playing 35 minutes a night or we'll be bottom feeder next season.

Do you not remember 2015? Was having Derrick and Juan as starters that long ago?

[Goose]

Brew

To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.

[brewcity77]

Brew

To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.

I supported Derrick. I think he got the short stick here, but anyone that can't see the talent disparity between him and Markus is out of their mind.

[jsglow]

Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.

Seems like a mistake.  We'll renew next year.  But we're headed back to an inexpensive ticket plan that facilitates our 'coming up when we feel like it'.  It's how we began around 10 years ago.  I can still remember convincing chick that the very modest investment ($99pp then) was worth it.  Coming every game when both our kids were in school AND the team was outstanding was worth it. And little did I know that she would become MU's biggest female superfan.  But even she's had enough.  We've turned off the TV early both games this week. Better things to do and not worth getting depressed over. 

We absolutely always enjoy mingling with our friends.  But an empty building for a 8p start on a Tuesday when we do zero socializing is only worth it if we get to watch great basketball.  Being there for Nova this year was beyond special.  But anything approaching those special moments are way too infrequent these days.  Candidly, I had wanted to make the change this year but was out voted.  But even chick begrudgingly knows it's the right decision going forward.

Wojo, just win and we'll be back in our high roller seats. And I suspect we speak for hundreds if not thousands.  Burden is on you coach.  We'll be paying attention.

[bilsu]

Daniel

Agreed or recruit better players. 95% comes down to talent and we are lacking that to compete at high level on any kind of consistent manner.

We have shooting talent. It is my opinion that shooters are good, because that is what they concentrate on developing. A team full of shooters is not going to be good rebounding or defensive team. Bringing in a different coach to coach them is not going to change their DNA. You need to get away from recruiting only shooters.

[GGGG]

Thank you Goose, you said it exactly how I feel/think. I too have a problem with the blindly optimistic ones as well. Personally, I think they know there are MAJOR issues with this program and it's direction right now, but won't admit that on these boards because "someone has to be objective". I would just like to see people call a spade a spade. That's all I'm asking. brew is an optimistic dude, hats off to him, he has a lot more patience than I do. He says progress has been made, and others have said it to, and though that may be the case, what is so hard to swallow is how close this program was to breaking into "elite" level under Buzz, just 5 years ago...so to go from THAT to what we currently have now, is a meteoric fall, and quite frankly I wonder if it can be said very often in CBB history that a program has fallen so far so fast. I know Buzz left the cupboard bare, but honestly, great Coaches have fixed programs quicker than this, it's not unprecedented at all.

If MU misses the dance again this year, that will leave only MU and DePaul that haven't made the dance in the first four years of the "new" BE, is that really something to be proud of, and the company MU wants to be keeping as a program??

I agree with a great deal of what you say here and yes your last fact is quite jarring.

And I don't think I was blindly optimistic, but I was optimistic because progress had been made.  Slow progress but progress.  Gotta admit though, I am concerned.  And I'm not concerned about lack of adjustments on this team because I think there is only so much any coach can do.  I am more concerned that I don't know if Wojo knows how to fit the pieces together.  And that is ultimately on him.

[Goose]

Brew

+1 on Howard. Problem is still too many holes to fill in. As much as I wanted a better PG to Derrick I never blamed him. The guy that recruited and played him pissed me off. I respect your optimism and love of MU, but do you in your heart think we have major improvement over the last two years?
Wojo's first year was tough and thank God Matt came here. It is funny but Matt's first 8 weeks here all anyone did was bash him. That said, are we much better off than two years ago?

[brewcity77]

Brew

+1 on Howard. Problem is still too many holes to fill in. As much as I wanted a better PG to Derrick I never blamed him. The guy that recruited and played him pissed me off. I respect your optimism and love of MU, but do you in your heart think we have major improvement over the last two years?
Wojo's first year was tough and thank God Matt came here. It is funny but Matt's first 8 weeks here all anyone did was bash him. That said, are we much better off than two years ago?

Two years ago we don't stand a chance against a Villanova. This team is without a doubt better, and I believe better than last year as well. I do feel Howard, Hauser, and Cheatham can still be very good for us and feel Wojo has an eye for talent.

That said, the past five games have been trying. Providence, oh well a letdown. St John's, ugh. That one irritated me because I just don't believe they are very good. Butler, well it was a close game against a good team. Today, another ugh. Isolated, or 3-2 in this stretch, not a big deal. Losing 4/5 with one win over DePaul, it's definitely disheartening and could be fatal to our season.

Come April, while a NIT berth would be a successful season (I felt that way about any postseason this year) it definitely wasn't what I was hoping for. No postseason at all...that will have me severely concerned.

Ultimately, winning is on the coach. Last year, the schedule was always going to hamstring us, but this year to truly show progress, we have to at least make the NIT. I'd support another year regardless, just to see if the addition of bigs helps the defense, but I do feel this year directly impacts the importance of the next. I'm patient, but even I have my limits.

[Goose]

Brew

Great reply and cannot debate any of it. I really am hoping Wojo gets the job done over the long haul.