Quit Whining

[muguru]

This is twice you've alluded to a "quick fix" option but haven't explained what those quick fixes are.

same thing Buzz used..Jucos. Too bad if the admin doesnt like it. It's not cheating..and it's Wojo's program..the admin need to step aside and let him run it the way he wants. It's a potential win-win. We know for a fact that the BB team successful at MU has lead to more applications, more interest in the University as a whole which means more $$. In fact the Admin should be encouraging him to recruit Jucos.

[Small Orange Soda]

I've seen an influx of young talent and a coach that is growing as a game manger. It's progress.

If we are having this same discussion in three years he should be gone.

If we're having this same discussion next year he should be gone.

If we're having it in three years then the administration clearly doesn't care so we'll be screwed anyway.

[rocky_warrior]

The bottom line is, it's truly sad that we as MU fans have to even be thinking about how many wins it would take to get into the NCAA's or if they can squeeze in. I miss the days under Buzz when the season started you KNEW they were going to the NCAA's(barring a monumental disaster), and were basically playing the season for seeding. Now THAT's relaxing and comforting as a fan.

Um, weren't most Buzz teams deemed "Team Bubble Watch"?  I don't have the same memories as you of knowing each Buzz team would make the NCAAs.  At least not through the first 2/3 of the most seasons.

[muwarrior69]

Um, weren't most Buzz teams deemed "Team Bubble Watch"?  I don't have the same memories as you of knowing each Buzz team would make the NCAAs.  At least not through the first 2/3 of the most seasons.

I agree with you Rocky. I remember that one season where we were on the winning side of 3 close games in a row. It easily could have gone the other way and maybe, just maybe, we would have made the NIT. We are all impatient about making the post season, but it takes time to build a winning program. If we get Froling it looks like we are heading in the right direction.

[MU1980]

This tells the rest of us all we need to know about you. You are a lonely, pathetic person who derives all satisfaction out of the accomplishments of 20-year-old athletes. You can't even enjoy road victories over a top-10 team or an in-state rival because you are a negative person with warped priorities.

You need to get a life ... and the perspective that goes with it.

Your rant about "these kids today with their trophies and their carefree attitudes are what's ruining the world" was a classic. Are you sure you're not some 81-year-old curmudgeon?

I coach middle-school girls basketball at a "smart school." I have had kids miss games for Robotics, Science Decathlon and Mock Trial competitions.

But let me tell you, these girls HATE losing. They take it personally. They care deeply. They even want to win the smallest competitions and drills we have in practice, let alone the games themselves. And they don't get trophies just for participating.

And I have a feeling they are a lot more typical than "these kids today" that you whine and rant about.

Go find a woman (or a man or a dog or something) and get a freakin' life beyond Marquette basketball.

I was going to post something very similar, but you said it very well. I can see how it would be easy to get angry with MUGURU, but I just feel sorry for him. I love Marquette basketball, but I can't imagine getting so caught up in every single win or loss that I would completely lose perspective. I absolutely see the program moving forward, despite some of the frustrations we all feel.

[Lennys Tap]

Um, weren't most Buzz teams deemed "Team Bubble Watch"?  I don't have the same memories as you of knowing each Buzz team would make the NCAAs.  At least not through the first 2/3 of the most seasons.

Not most, Rocky. Years 1, 4 and 5 we were 40 - 14 in the Big East and would have been even better if DJ hadn't been hurt down the stretch in year 1. Year 2 was interesting - we went from out of it (remember the infamous "pee down our leg game?) to squarely on the bubble to safely in (11-7 in the BE, #6 seed). Year 3 we were on the bubble all year and year 6 (despite many here characterizing the season as beyond awful) we were on the bubble until we lost our last three games in OT. So I think it's fair to say 1 season on, 2 on for a large part and 3 off the bubble completely.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

  same thing Buzz used..Jucos. Too bad if the admin doesnt like it. It's not cheating..and it's Wojo's program..the admin need to step aside and let him run it the way he wants. It's a potential win-win. We know for a fact that the BB team successful at MU has lead to more applications, more interest in the University as a whole which means more $$. In fact the Admin should be encouraging him to recruit Jucos.

Ah, the old Juco quick fix cliche.  First of all, Buzz came up through the Juco ranks and had tons of connections.  That gave him access to the best Juco players.  Wojo coached at Duke, where Coach K signed exactly one Juco and I believe that one never enrolled at Duke.  So Wojo really doesn't have a history of recruiting Jucos.  And my impression is Wojo really doesn't want to recruit Jucos.  I think Wojo is recruiting who he wants and that vision aligns with the with what the administration wants.  I'm not anti-Juco by any means.  I just don't think Wojo is dying to recruit Jucos with only the administration standing in his way.

Plus, recruiting Jucos guarantees nothing.  Sure we remember Buzz's hits well but there are many more Jamil Lotts and TJ Taylors than there are Jimmy Butlers, Jae Crowders, and DJOs.

[mu03eng]

Ah, the old Juco quick fix cliche.  First of all, Buzz came up through the Juco ranks and had tons of connections.  That gave him access to the best Juco players.  Wojo coached at Duke, where Coach K signed exactly one Juco and I believe that one never enrolled at Duke.  So Wojo really doesn't have a history of recruiting Jucos.  And my impression is Wojo really doesn't want to recruit Jucos.  I think Wojo is recruiting who he wants and that vision aligns with the with what the administration wants.  I'm not anti-Juco by any means.  I just don't think Wojo is dying to recruit Jucos with only the administration standing in his way.

Plus, recruiting Jucos guarantees nothing.  Sure we remember Buzz's hits well but there are many more Jamil Lotts and TJ Taylors than there are Jimmy Butlers, Jae Crowders, and DJOs.

And one can argue that Buzz went the Juco route because he couldn't actually develop players and/or transition players from high school to college level basketball. Any players that were successful under Buzz had development by someone else other than just a Buzz staff.

[Galway Eagle]

I see your Emilio Estevez and raise you a Robert Duvall (through the 4 min mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INCGjFPMKKA

You win haha

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I am truly sorry for your loss..and i can see why your perspective is completely different then mine. I don't begrudge you that. But honestly..I'd love to have an outlet like you do...a wife and two kids to care about so I didn't have to invest so much emotionally into MU basketball. I'd trade places with you or anyone in the same situation in a heartbeat.

You are letting your self worth be valued by the performance a group of teenage kids that you don't even know.

[brewcity77]

Um, weren't most Buzz teams deemed "Team Bubble Watch"?  I don't have the same memories as you of knowing each Buzz team would make the NCAAs.  At least not through the first 2/3 of the most seasons.

We were #TBW for a reason. 2010 we epitomized the bubble team with the midgets and 2011 we couldn't be certain with 14 losses until our name was called on Selection Sunday. 2012 we were pretty safe by mid January, and while I felt secure all of 2012-13, there were more than a couple Scoopers that thought we were doomed to miss the tourney after the blowout at Florida and loss to Green Bay. Then 2014 we were back on the bubble, trying to claw back from the outside in until the season ending 4-game losing streak.

Personally, that first team didn't ever have the same feel of what I'd consider a "Buzz team." He was there, but really just caretaking Crean's team. His five subsequent years, we were unquestionably a bubble team 3 times, and by Scoop standards, 5 times. So yes, usually on the bubble.

[Lennys Tap]

We were #TBW for a reason. 2010 we epitomized the bubble team with the midgets and 2011 we couldn't be certain with 14 losses until our name was called on Selection Sunday. 2012 we were pretty safe by mid January, and while I felt secure all of 2012-13, there were more than a couple Scoopers that thought we were doomed to miss the tourney after the blowout at Florida and loss to Green Bay. Then 2014 we were back on the bubble, trying to claw back from the outside in until the season ending 4-game losing streak.

Personally, that first team didn't ever have the same feel of what I'd consider a "Buzz team." He was there, but really just caretaking Crean's team. His five subsequent years, we were unquestionably a bubble team 3 times, and by Scoop standards, 5 times. So yes, usually on the bubble.

How does a #6 seeded team "epitomize" a bubble team? At least 24 at large teams were selected after us. So for part of the year, yes - but only part. And in 2014, we didn't even make the NIT. So again, for part of the year, yes.

But even worse than your bad math is totally dismissing Buzz's first year. Not a coach but a caretaker? Seriously? Tell that to Wesley Matthews, an afterthought for three years who became the 1a option in a new offense. And tell that to D James, whose role in the offense completely changed. I guess we watched entirely different teams 1n 2008-09.

[ATL MU Warrior]

How does a #6 seeded team "epitomize" a bubble team? At least 24 at large teams were selected after us. So for part of the year, yes - but only part. And in 2014, we didn't even make the NIT. So again, for part of the year, yes.

But even worse than your bad math is totally dismissing Buzz's first year. Not a coach but a caretaker? Seriously? Tell that to Wesley Matthews, an afterthought for three years who became the 1a option in a new offense. And tell that to D James, whose role in the offense completely changed. I guess we watched entirely different teams 1n 2008-09.

You are turning into Chicos #2 with your constant defenses of Buzz.  I know, you are just setting the record straight or some nonsense.  Just let it go.

[mu03eng]

You are turning into Chicos #2 with your constant defenses of Buzz.  I know, you are just setting the record straight or some nonsense.  Just let it go.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Since this thread has turned into whining & counter whining...

I would like to add that I do not like our new Grey Unis!  There I got that off my chest and can go about the workday.

[Nostradamus]

You are turning into Chicos #2 with your constant defenses of Buzz.  I know, you are just setting the record straight or some nonsense.  Just let it go.

There is a lot of revisionist history taking place here to try to minimize the job Buzz Williams did at Marquette, in order to try to prop up the thus far, uninspiring start, to the Steven Wojciechoswki era at Marquette.

Wojo has gone after JUCO's, one-year rentals, and cut players, all in the attempt to become a winner from Day 1 of taking over the program. There is no "taking the long term approach to the rebuild," or trying to "build the program the right way and through high school kids."  This should be applauded, even if it hasn't resulted in us becoming a winner yet.  The clear challenge for Wojo is going to be the actual in game coaching part of the job.

Kudos to Lenny's Tap for setting the record straight.

[MU82]

And one can argue that Buzz went the Juco route because he couldn't actually develop players and/or transition players from high school to college level basketball. Any players that were successful under Buzz had development by someone else other than just a Buzz staff.

I'm pretty sure Buzz "developed" Vander into the player capable of leading us into the Elite Eight and Davante from an unheralded recruit into one of the best offensive post players in the country. I don't think it's a reach to say he also had a fairly large role in Wes becoming an NBA player. Many of his recruits did not fare as well, including both prepsters and jucos. That's pretty par for the course for most successful coaches - some nice hits, a few bad misses.

I don't worship Buzz to the level that Lenny does. I don't hate him (or Crean) like some here do. I think Wojo is on the right track but I allow that I might end up being proven wrong; I choose to be optimistic.

I just like to get all the facts right as often as possible.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I'll give Buzz a lot of credit for unleashing Wes Matthews.  Butler and Crowder came in with a nice floor but Buzz certainly helped them reach their ceiling.

But I'm pretty sure I could have coached MU to the tournament in Buzz's first year.  That is not a knock on Buzz.  Just saying that comparing the situation Wojo took over to Buzz's is apples and oranges.

[Galway Eagle]

I'll give Buzz a lot of credit for unleashing Wes Matthews.  Butler and Crowder came in with a nice floor but Buzz certainly helped them reach their ceiling.

But I'm pretty sure I could have coached MU to the tournament in Buzz's first year.  That is not a knock on Buzz.  Just saying that comparing the situation Wojo took over to Buzz's is apples and oranges.

The NBA had more to do with helping Butler reach his ceiling than Buzz did, Jimmy was not a great offensive player here (Cincinnati game excluded)

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I would like to add that I do not like our new Grey Unis! 

I agree with this analysis

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

And one can argue that Buzz went the Juco route because he couldn't actually develop players and/or transition players from high school to college level basketball. Any players that were successful under Buzz had development by someone else other than just a Buzz staff.

Here is an interesting question.  That narrative developed IMO because 1. Buzz was working to ensure that he had experience on a team when crean's roster turned with a favor for and an inside track with JUCO players and 2. We MU fans didn't realize we were on a precipice of the transfer/grad transfer explosion coming off 4 years of stability with the 3 amigos.

I truly believed this narrative was true back then.  But now seeing Wojo's developing track record with HS recruits makes me question how much of this was BW.  If you look at BW's current team he has a balance of VT recruits, transfers from other programs and JUCOs.  Wojo has had the same mix - just without the JUCOs.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The NBA had more to do with helping Butler reach his ceiling than Buzz did, Jimmy was not a great offensive player here (Cincinnati game excluded)

Yes, Jimmy clearly kept improving in the Association.  But look at his MU career.  Jimmy looked lost at his first Madness, was solid by the end of sophomore year, and made a big jump junior year.  I think it's fair to give Buzz some credit for his development.

[mu03eng]

I'm pretty sure Buzz "developed" Vander into the player capable of leading us into the Elite Eight and Davante from an unheralded recruit into one of the best offensive post players in the country. I don't think it's a reach to say he also had a fairly large role in Wes becoming an NBA player. Many of his recruits did not fare as well, including both prepsters and jucos. That's pretty par for the course for most successful coaches - some nice hits, a few bad misses.

I don't worship Buzz to the level that Lenny does. I don't hate him (or Crean) like some here do. I think Wojo is on the right track but I allow that I might end up being proven wrong; I choose to be optimistic.

I just like to get all the facts right as often as possible.

I'll give you Vander for sure and Ox generally, though Ox's skillset didn't really change from day 1 to senior year, just usage.

Wesley is the perfect example of what Buzz's best capabilities were, seeing what he had and using it to maximum effect. I don't think Buzz did anything to develop Wesley per se, I think it was much more about using him and his skillsets in the best way possible. Crean kept Matthews as a 3rd if not 4th banana most of the time, Buzz featured him in the offense.

Also keep in mind, the majority of Buzz's teams were focused on defense, not offense. That isn't a knock on the strategy but it is easier to develop a defensively than it is offensively (which is why I'm really confused by Wojo right now).

I'm not trying to minimize Buzz's significance, he had a lot of positive things going for him as a coach, but player development was pretty low on the list of those things IMO

[Jay Bee]

It was reported in Scoop a couple years ago that Marquette invests the second highest amount of money in the nation on its basketball program.

This was not based on facts

[DienerTime34]

Wojo needs to look JuCo because he has zero track record of developing players at MU. Haanif has regressed, Duane has regressed, Sandy regressed to the point of being unable to play, Luke has not improved in three seasons.

His best players are Markus Howard and Sam Hauser, and they just came from high school.