Quit Whining

[willie warrior]

We could have hired Wardle but his teams tend to sh*t the bed.

Unlike ours, right?

[willie warrior]

I completely agree.  But lets also not pretend there is some grand 15 year plan in the works.

How do you know? We need to see wojo's PowerPoint from when he interviewed that bowled the selector over. Then we would know the plan. Because right now, we do not see much of a plan. Maybe a mission statement.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Unlike ours, right?

I'm not sure if you got the joke

[Benny B]

Typically, after a bad loss, I don't even look at Scoop for a few days because I don't like skimming through 6+ page threads that turn out to be more about reactions to the loss than about the actual loss itself.  And then I feel like I want to say something in response to something that was mentioned on page 1, but then I don't because I'm too lazy to read the other five pages which, for all I know, has already turned into a fishing discussion.

But that's what I've had to do here.  F it all.

[Galway Eagle]

That's the problem with the younger generation now days...they are way to soft. It's all about how you play the game "did the kids have fun", did they give their all"?? I've said it for a long time now, basically in reference to the UW rivalry, but it applies all over...MU fans are way too soft as a whole. "oh well, they lost, but they tried hard and were right there". Great! A loss is a loss is a loss. You play to win the game, and I say it again, anyone that is okay with a loss even to the #1 team, has no competitive bones in their body. Really, after the sustained success Buzz had here, this is what the programs fans mindset has become?? They expect to lose?? You NEVER expect to lose, EVER...At anything. That's small minded.

This paragraph reeks of arrogance. I'm sure you remember your life being absurdly tough and each game was life or death whereas now everybody gets trophies but in actuality it's far from it though I'm sure your HS team and bar soft ball teams were absurdly competitive, the likes of which don't exist today.

Jeeze I must've been concussed for all matches I lost but still was given trophies because I certainly don't remember getting any and I'm part of that young generation you hate so much.

[muguru]

This paragraph reeks of arrogance. I'm sure you remember your life being absurdly tough and each game was life or death whereas now everybody gets trophies but in actuality it's far from it though I'm sure your HS team and bar soft ball teams were absurdly competitive, the likes of which don't exist today.

Jeeze I must've been concussed for all matches I lost but still was given trophies because I certainly don't remember getting any and I'm part of that young generation you hate so much.

Heck, there are Little Leagues everywhere now that don't even keep score...Because "that's not what it's about". That makes me want to puke. The younger generation really doesn't care AS MUCH about winning as we did. I see that everywhere I go. It's more about having fun to them. If they lose, they lose, oh well. I see/know of people that all the time let their wife win a game of horse, or Monopoly or something...That's disgraceful to me. I let no one win at anything...ever. If I lose fine, but I am sure as hell not going to be happy about it. That's competitiveness. I just sense that for most MU fans, it's the "if they win, they win, if they don't oh well" mentality. And they are content with where the program is at...that's a losers mentality. A program like MU should NEVER(at least now days) go three consecutive years with no postseason, heck, they shouldn't be going 3 consecutive years without making the NCAA's. But most of you just shrug it off and say "Wojo is building it his way, wait for 3 years from now". In 3 more years, what if we are saying..."wait three years from now". There are no guarantees that what Wojo is building will EVER sustain continued success, yet so many of you seem to think it's a certainty. Bullshit. You win now as much as you can, and worry about next year or the year after when they get here...Long term visions are great if you have guarantees that it will work out. I mean, what if our employers all told us..Well, we have had a rough last three years, but don't worry, three years from now, we will start paying you again. Would that be acceptable to you??

As the great Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser". Amen to that Vince.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Heck, there are Little Leagues everywhere now that don't even keep score...Because "that's not what it's about". That makes me want to puke. The younger generation really doesn't care AS MUCH about winning as we did. I see that everywhere I go. It's more about having fun to them. If they lose, they lose, oh well. I see/know of people that all the time let their wife win a game of horse, or Monopoly or something...That's disgraceful to me. I let no one win at anything...ever. If I lose fine, but I am sure as hell not going to be happy about it. That's competitiveness. I just sense that for most MU fans, it's the "if they win, they win, if they don't oh well" mentality. And they are content with where the program is at...that's a losers mentality. A program like MU should NEVER(at least now days) go three consecutive years with no postseason, heck, they shouldn't be going 3 consecutive years without making the NCAA's. But most of you just shrug it off and say "Wojo is building it his way, wait for 3 years from now". In 3 more years, what if we are saying..."wait three years from now". There are no guarantees that what Wojo is building will EVER sustain continued success, yet so many of you seem to think it's a certainty. Bullcrap. You win now as much as you can, and worry about next year or the year after when they get here...Long term visions are great if you have guarantees that it will work out. I mean, what if our employers all told us..Well, we have had a rough last three years, but don't worry, three years from now, we will start paying you again. Would that be acceptable to you??

As the great Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser". Amen to that Vince.

Well said.  Vince also said that "Winning is the only thing.  Finishing second is for losers."

[Marcus92]

Does Marquette win another national championship before the sun enlarges into a red giant and consumes the earth?

If Villanova can do it, so can Marquette. We've got a great arena, facilities, university and alumni support. I think we have the makings of a great team and coaching staff.

If not Wojo, we have approximately 5 billion years to find another great coach.

[Galway Eagle]

Heck, there are Little Leagues everywhere now that don't even keep score...Because "that's not what it's about". That makes me want to puke. The younger generation really doesn't care AS MUCH about winning as we did. I see that everywhere I go. It's more about having fun to them. If they lose, they lose, oh well. I see/know of people that all the time let their wife win a game of horse, or Monopoly or something...That's disgraceful to me. I let no one win at anything...ever. If I lose fine, but I am sure as hell not going to be happy about it. That's competitiveness. I just sense that for most MU fans, it's the "if they win, they win, if they don't oh well" mentality. And they are content with where the program is at...that's a losers mentality. A program like MU should NEVER(at least now days) go three consecutive years with no postseason, heck, they shouldn't be going 3 consecutive years without making the NCAA's. But most of you just shrug it off and say "Wojo is building it his way, wait for 3 years from now". In 3 more years, what if we are saying..."wait three years from now". There are no guarantees that what Wojo is building will EVER sustain continued success, yet so many of you seem to think it's a certainty. Bullcrap. You win now as much as you can, and worry about next year or the year after when they get here...Long term visions are great if you have guarantees that it will work out. I mean, what if our employers all told us..Well, we have had a rough last three years, but don't worry, three years from now, we will start paying you again. Would that be acceptable to you??

As the great Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser". Amen to that Vince.

You seem like the Jock's dad in the breakfast club. Someone who's conviced they're the world's best athlete and needs to "win" at all costs. Did you kids tape Larry's buttcheeks together?

But more seriously there's being competitive, I'm competitive and have two of 6 golden gloves championships to show for it. But then there's irrationally competitive, that would have been me going into that first one when I'd just started boxing and expecting to wipe the floor with everyone or my last one fighting on a injured knee expecting to win... that's how you come off...irrational

[muguru]

You seem like the Jock's dad in the breakfast club. Someone who's conviced they're the world's best athlete and needs to "win" at all costs. Did you kids tape Larry's buttcheeks together?

But more seriously there's being competitive, I'm competitive and have two of 6 golden gloves championships to show for it. But then there's irrationally competitive, that would have been me going into that first one when I'd just started boxing and expecting to wipe the floor with everyone or my last one fighting on a injured knee expecting to win... that's how you come off...irrational

No, you didn't have to be thinking you were going to wipe the floor with with everyone, but if you went into your first match EXPECTING to lose...that would be the definition of irrationally competitive. No competitor, or serious competitor that i have ever been around, EXPECTS to lose, and when they do, they don't get over it in a few hours(or less). Losing should sting, it should hurt like hell, and it shouldn't take just a few hours to move past it. MU fans have just become way to passive. No competitiveness in them. When I hear "What did you expect when we were playing the #1 team in the country, no one expected us to win". That's a defeatist attitude and reeks of small time basketball. Now if you are Morgan State and playing North Carolina, yeah, you can think that way. It's so sad how meteoric MU's fall has been, how completely irrelevant in the college BB landscape they have become, when 4 years ago, it was completely different. What's even worse is how many MU fans have accepted it, shrug their shoulders and simply say "it happens".

[Warriors88]

As one of the more vocal posters around I feel like I should chime in here. What bothers me more than anything is people thinking we can't have high expectations. Why the hell shouldn't we?? It also bothers me to no end the people that are content with where the program is right now. That tells me those people never played sports, or if they did, just did it for fun, and have NO level of competitiveness whatsoever. That just baffles me. Every fan, should NOT be okay with a loss, ever. Yes, they happen, I get that, but to just "accept it" shrug your shoulders and instantly move on?? I will NEVER understand that thinking. Ever. Whether you voice your frustrations here, or do it privately, you SHOULD be angry, you should be frustrated, you should be wondering if this program will ever achieve the levels it was at not that long ago.

You can say it's "entitled cry babies" all you want, but look at attendance, it has dropped off substantially. Students aren't showing up, and if progress is measured by adding a few more wins year to year...well that's just small time thinking. is that really what the Marquette program has become?? Where winning isn't that important?? As long as we have a nice program, graduate the kids and have a good public image, we are satisfied?? That's a pathetic way of thinking. Whether any of us want to admit it or not, College basketball is a business, it's about the bottom line. That bottom line isn't achieved, people get fired. Those that think it's "okay" that there has been no postseason whatsoever the last 3 years(nevermind no NCAA bids), should go root for Duhpaul. You'll get plenty of no postseason there.

I get Buzz stripped the roster when he left, but so what?? Programs have turned worse around quicker. My biggest problem right now is with Wojo as a Coach..how many truly big wins has he had in 3 years?? Okay he beat UW last year when they were at their worst, and Providence last year when they were ranked...big f'n deal. Bottom line under Wojo, they have not had truly any big wins of signifcance in 3 years(a lot of times, those happen just by accident), and he has NO idea apparently how to hide his players deficiencies or play to his player's strengths. Buzz was VERY good at that. he could hide weaknesses, and he would exploit other teams weaknesses. I like Wojo's recruiting, but that has to equate to W's...and they just haven't been there, that's a problem, and should be a problem for EVERYONE, but apparently it's not.

Agreed 100%.  All involved - players, coaches, admin, fan base - need to have a sense of urgency to get this turned around.  I could not believe many of the posts leading up to the Nova game.  I'm not sure why MU even showed up for the game.  So many excuses why MU cannot be competitive in a league game.  Thats bull. 

I expect more out of this program.  I get it blow outs happen.  But it happens all too frequently under the Wojo tenure.  Combine the lack of competitiveness against the top end of the big east with the lack of any post season to speak of and we are becoming irrelevant.  And that frustrates the hell out of me.

[jesmu84]

Heck, there are Little Leagues everywhere now that don't even keep score...Because "that's not what it's about". That makes me want to puke. The younger generation really doesn't care AS MUCH about winning as we did. I see that everywhere I go. It's more about having fun to them. If they lose, they lose, oh well. I see/know of people that all the time let their wife win a game of horse, or Monopoly or something...That's disgraceful to me. I let no one win at anything...ever. If I lose fine, but I am sure as hell not going to be happy about it. That's competitiveness. I just sense that for most MU fans, it's the "if they win, they win, if they don't oh well" mentality. And they are content with where the program is at...that's a losers mentality. A program like MU should NEVER(at least now days) go three consecutive years with no postseason, heck, they shouldn't be going 3 consecutive years without making the NCAA's. But most of you just shrug it off and say "Wojo is building it his way, wait for 3 years from now". In 3 more years, what if we are saying..."wait three years from now". There are no guarantees that what Wojo is building will EVER sustain continued success, yet so many of you seem to think it's a certainty. Bullcrap. You win now as much as you can, and worry about next year or the year after when they get here...Long term visions are great if you have guarantees that it will work out. I mean, what if our employers all told us..Well, we have had a rough last three years, but don't worry, three years from now, we will start paying you again. Would that be acceptable to you??

As the great Vince Lombardi said "Show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser". Amen to that Vince.

Considering that's what's been happening in the economy over the last decade...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There's a difference between the mindset of a player and a fan. Players absolutely should go into every game expecting to win. Their mindset actually could affect the outcome of the game. Fans don't have the same power. We have the luxury to objectively look at a matchup and say "I think we have a chance, but we're probably going to lose" without it having any effect on the outcome. I'm just as disappointed in the loss. Does that make me a loser?

[muguru]

Agreed 100%.  All involved - players, coaches, admin, fan base - need to have a sense of urgency to get this turned around.  I could not believe many of the posts leading up to the Nova game.  I'm not sure why MU even showed up for the game.  So many excuses why MU cannot be competitive in a league game.  Thats bull. 

I expect more out of this program.  I get it blow outs happen.  But it happens all too frequently under the Wojo tenure.  Combine the lack of competitiveness against the top end of the big east with the lack of any post season to speak of and we are becoming irrelevant.  And that frustrates the hell out of me.

Thank you Warriors! perfectly stated. I just don't get why the direction of the program, or maybe more aptly the current state of the program, doesn't bother more fans etc. It sure as hell should..They will all just say "what did you expect during a rebuild". That's the problem, MU should have never had to rebuild...miss the tourney for a year okay, i get that, it happens, but no postseason in three years?? Something that has happened what only one other time in the HISTORY of MU's program, and NO ONE, not Wojo, not the admin, not the fans, not a single one feels a sense of urgency?? That's baffling to me. And don't give me this BS that "of course they would like it to go faster", if that were true, they would be doing things differently.

This isn't Saint Louis U, or some mid major program, that can have fleeting success, and than back to irrelevancy for a number of years. MU is and should be above that. It amazes me, that MU was super competitive in the best conference ever assembled, yet in the reconfigured BE they can't even finish top half..."cue the "coaching changes will do that" crowd. The point is, coaching changes don't HAVE to do that...there are quick fixes, and the fact that that hasn't happened is extremely concerning when Mens BB is the face of Marquette University, and the top money maker.

Again in 3 years under Wojo there has not been one good win, and the ones brewcity cites earlier in the thread are not considered "good wins". They are wins that a school like Savannah State should be ecstatic to have, at Marquette, they should be expected. But the simple fact that the last 3 years, they are considered GOOD WINS FOR MU...that's a problem. A good win to me would be going into Nova and winning, winning at Creighton, a win that has some relevance, or a win that puts them over the top for an NCAA bid...none of those wins that MU has had in 3 years has meant squat during that particular season.

The fact that Wojo called his own team "uncompetitive" should be VERY concerning to every fan. That's the worst thing a Coach can call his team. That means there's a problem somewhere..yet no one wants to see it/acknowledge it.

[GGGG]

Agreed 100%.  All involved - players, coaches, admin, fan base - need to have a sense of urgency to get this turned around.  I could not believe many of the posts leading up to the Nova game.  I'm not sure why MU even showed up for the game.  So many excuses why MU cannot be competitive in a league game.  Thats bull. 

I expect more out of this program.  I get it blow outs happen.  But it happens all too frequently under the Wojo tenure.  Combine the lack of competitiveness against the top end of the big east with the lack of any post season to speak of and we are becoming irrelevant.  And that frustrates the hell out of me.

Why do you think they don't have a "sense of urgency now?"  How do you propose they move forward?

[jesmu84]

Thank you Warriors! perfectly stated. I just don't get why the direction of the program, or maybe more aptly the current state of the program, doesn't bother more fans etc. It sure as hell should..They will all just say "what did you expect during a rebuild". That's the problem, MU should have never had to rebuild...miss the tourney for a year okay, i get that, it happens, but no postseason in three years?? Something that has happened what only one other time in the HISTORY of MU's program, and NO ONE, not Wojo, not the admin, not the fans, not a single one feels a sense of urgency?? That's baffling to me. And don't give me this BS that "of course they would like it to go faster", if that were true, they would be doing things differently.

This isn't Saint Louis U, or some mid major program, that can have fleeting success, and than back to irrelevancy for a number of years. MU is and should be above that. It amazes me, that MU was super competitive in the best conference ever assembled, yet in the reconfigured BE they can't even finish top half..."cue the "coaching changes will do that" crowd. The point is, coaching changes don't HAVE to do that...there are quick fixes, and the fact that that hasn't happened is extremely concerning when Mens BB is the face of Marquette University, and the top money maker.

Again in 3 years under Wojo there has not been one good win, and the ones brewcity cites earlier in the thread are not considered "good wins". They are wins that a school like Savannah State should be ecstatic to have, at Marquette, they should be expected. But the simple fact that the last 3 years, they are considered GOOD WINS FOR MU...that's a problem. A good win to me would be going into Nova and winning, winning at Creighton, a win that has some relevance, or a win that puts them over the top for an NCAA bid...none of those wins that MU has had in 3 years has meant squat during that particular season.

The fact that Wojo called his own team "uncompetitive" should be VERY concerning to every fan. That's the worst thing a Coach can call his team. That means there's a problem somewhere..yet no one wants to see it/acknowledge it.

Winning at Creighton would be a good win, but winning at top 10 Providence was not a good win?

Question, what do you think MU could have done differently after Buzz left to get the roster that was leftover to the NCAAs after 1 year out?

[MuMark]

Clearly if fans on message boards were more outraged after each loss then every school in every major conference would be in the top 25 every year.

If fans recognize challenges and try to be patient and support the program win or lose they are LOSERS!

Got it.

[muguru]

Winning at Creighton would be a good win, but winning at top 10 Providence was not a good win?

Question, what do you think MU could have done differently after Buzz left to get the roster that was leftover to the NCAAs after 1 year out?

I give him a pass for the first year...but the 2nd year with an all american, can't give him a pass for that.. Obviously there is no way of saying for certain, but I feel confident in saying Buzz and a handful of other coaches would have had that team in the NCAAs, or close to it, and if they would have just missed, they sure as hell would have been in the NIT.

[muguru]

Clearly if fans on message boards were more outraged after each loss then every school in every major conference would be in the top 25 every year.

If fans recognize challenges and try to be patient and support the program win or lose they are LOSERS!

Got it.

I figured you'd chime in eventually. Given you are head of the "non competitive" group. You are always, always always ,trying to make excuses for why things have gone wrong for this program the last three years or wait you see them as "challenges". that's just a cute way of making an excuse. So tell me mark, being one of the top Wojo supporters around, what exactly have you seen from him as a Head Coach that gives you confidence he will restore this program to it's rightful place?? Oh I know..."just be patient, it will pay off in a few years". You sure about that?? Oh I know..."wait until Wojo gets all his own players". Yeah, and?? Does that guarantee success in 3 years like everyone seems to think?? What if we are having this same discussion 3 years from now?? That's living a fairy tale...waiting on something that may never happen. To each their own I guess.

[tower912]

You're still whining and entitled.  Yes or no, fire wojo if he fails to make the postseason.  If your answer is yes, you are likely signing up for another 3-4 years of frustration after the inevitable transfers and defections.   So, your solution, please.

[muguru]

Winning at Creighton would be a good win, but winning at top 10 Providence was not a good win?

Question, what do you think MU could have done differently after Buzz left to get the roster that was leftover to the NCAAs after 1 year out?

And how did winning at #10 Providence work out for them?? Did it propel them into the NCAAs?? or did it even help them get in the NIT?? A big win is a "signature win" a program changing win, a win that propels a team into the NCaa's.

[jesmu84]

And how did winning at #10 Providence work out for them?? Did it propel them into the NCAAs?? or did it even help them get in the NIT?? A big win is a "signature win" a program changing win, a win that propels a team into the NCaa's.

So if MU wins at Creighton this season, but doesn't make the NCAAs, is that a big win?

[muguru]

You're still whining and entitled.  Yes or no, fire wojo if he fails to make the postseason.  If your answer is yes, you are likely signing up for another 3-4 years of frustration after the inevitable transfers and defections.   So, your solution, please.

It's already water under the bridge, but I would have gone with the "quick fix" option. As i have said, numerous times, there are no guarantees for the future...when you have a chance to win, you do it NOW because it may not happen for awhile again. Now, I will say..I do love having a team that can shoot like this MU team can, and I believe they have the talent to get in the NCAA's(but i also though that last year). My BIGGEST problem is the lack of creativity as a Coach Wojo shows, and the fact that he apparently has no clue how to hide players deficiencies. That's a problem. He talks all the time about him needing to do a better job of putting the team in the best position to win...and yet, he rarely makes great in game adjustments, he will not switch things up if something isn't working, and has NO idea, absolutely none how to hide players deficiencies. Someone said it in a different thread..Luke has had problems on defense since Wojo took over...yet Wojo seems to have no idea how to fix those issues, or at least hide them so they stop recurring time and time again.

[GGGG]

I figured you'd chime in eventually. Given you are head of the "non competitive" group. You are always, always always ,trying to make excuses for why things have gone wrong for this program the last three years or wait you see them as "challenges". that's just a cute way of making an excuse. So tell me mark, being one of the top Wojo supporters around, what exactly have you seen from him as a Head Coach that gives you confidence he will restore this program to it's rightful place?? Oh I know..."just be patient, it will pay off in a few years". You sure about that?? Oh I know..."wait until Wojo gets all his own players". Yeah, and?? Does that guarantee success in 3 years like everyone seems to think?? What if we are having this same discussion 3 years from now?? That's living a fairy tale...waiting on something that may never happen. To each their own I guess.

I've seen an influx of young talent and a coach that is growing as a game manger. It's progress.

If we are having this same discussion in three years he should be gone.

[muguru]

So if MU wins at Creighton this season, but doesn't make the NCAAs, is that a big win?

Nope, it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things.