College Football Thread

[GGGG]

I've heard the "devalue the regular season" argument for 30 years.  I simply don't think it is accurate.  You don't think people would still attend and watch a Michigan v. Ohio State game?  Would the Penn State victory over Ohio State have been less special?  Every team that makes the playoff this year save Alabama will have a loss.  Has that devalued the season?

Now it may devalue the bowl season as the other bowls become that much worthwhile.  Attendance has already become a problem at a lot of them already.  This will just make it worse.

[mu03eng]

I've heard the "devalue the regular season" argument for 30 years.  I simply don't think it is accurate.  You don't think people would still attend and watch a Michigan v. Ohio State game?  Would the Penn State victory over Ohio State have been less special?  Every team that makes the playoff this year save Alabama will have a loss.  Has that devalued the season?

Now it may devalue the bowl season as the other bowls become that much worthwhile.  Attendance has already become a problem at a lot of them already.  This will just make it worse.

Let's get the bowl thing out of the way at the beginning....far too many bowls and exist only as an excuse to put crappy games on TV to generate revenue. I think, at a minimum there should only be enough bowls for the top 25 teams...more like top 20 if I had my way.

As far as devaluing the season....the less exclusive you make it, the less you incentivize teams to play strong schedules and win those games. The non-conference slate has been outstanding the last two years, in large part because teams are forced to have a good SoS to look good to the committee.

This year is an aberration (and each year will be an aberration of some sort). Wisconsin happened to get 2 out of 3 east division cross overs that were the best in the B1G. What if, instead of Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State (1-2) Wisconsin had played Michigan State, Rutgers, and Indiana. They would have been undefeated so "more deserving" but in reality Michigan and Ohio State proved to be better at least once. So Wisconsin can't have it both ways.

Also, when you play matters, I'd be willing to bet if Michigan and Penn State played now they outcome would be very different than when they played at the beginning of conference season. Michigan very well may still win, but now that PSU has figured out it's identity on offense and we have actual scholarship linebackers healthy it would not be the same lopsided result. However, they got smoked by Michigan and lost to Pitt, so by any appreciable measure, OSU is the better team right now.

[wadesworld]

Fascinating that the 4th down spot in the second OT has become THE talking point of the weekend.     Along with Harbaugh's officiating rant.    Crean married into the right family, apparently.      However, related to the spot..... It was damn close.   I am not prepared to say whether it was right or wrong.   I do know that after looking at dozens of replays/angles/pictures that whatever was called on the field should stand because there simply is not compelling evidence to overturn the call either way.   

I agree you couldn't overturn the call because there was nothing that showed the ball didn't definitively stay behind the 15 yard line, but just putting the pieces together from what I saw, the arm that Barrett was carrying the ball in went directly into his blocker's (I think it was #88 but forget now) butt, and his blocker's butt was definitely not at or past the 15 yard line.  From there, Barrett's upper body got knocked backwards, not forwards, so I don't know how the ball could've ever crossed the 15 yard line.  But again, you couldn't say with absolute certainty that it was clear the ball never crossed the 15 yard line from any replays, so you couldn't change the call on the field.  I just personally don't see any way that the ball could've crossed the 15 the way the play happened, and I don't really have any fight in this one other than I wanted UW to have to beat Michigan in the B1G, but as it turns out that might've only helped UW's case to get into the Playoffs, as Michigan has remained ahead of UW in the AP poll, so we'll see what the CFP poll looks like tomorrow.

[jesmu84]

There's also a picture floating around today of a directly over-head shot. Looks pretty convincing to me. Now, clearly the refs didn't have access to that, so call on the field had to stand either way.

Great point about tennis technology.

[wadesworld]

There's also a picture floating around today of a directly over-head shot. Looks pretty convincing to me. Now, clearly the refs didn't have access to that, so call on the field had to stand either way.

Great point about tennis technology.

I don't know where you're seeing a football anywhere in either of those 2 different pictures.  Not to mention the ball starts on the 25 yard line so it would have to cross the plane of the 15 yard line, while the yellow/red lines are drawn hugging just short of the 15 yard line.

If the ball was wedged in between his face mask then yup, clear and concise evidence it crossed the 15 yard line.  But he was carrying it in his right arm and I really have no idea where the football is or when he's down in those pictures.

[brandx]

Also, when you play matters, I'd be willing to bet if Michigan and Penn State played now they outcome would be very different than when they played at the beginning of conference season. Michigan very well may still win, but now that PSU has figured out it's identity on offense and we have actual scholarship linebackers healthy it would not be the same lopsided result. However, they got smoked by Michigan and lost to Pitt, so by any appreciable measure, OSU is the better team right now.

It's hard to look back and say injuries mattered. Otherwise, Wisconsin could use that excuse. They lost to Michigan and OSU - each by one score; one in OT - without their best defensive player. Would it have mattered? Who knows?

With the PSU game, UW will have played 6 teams that were Top 10 when they played. OSU faced 1; Michigan faced 1. Maybe meaningless, maybe not. But certainly they have as good a case as any team other than Alabama. If MU and OSU were Illinois and Purdue with the same records, UW would be rated ahead of them.

So the system isn't fair and never will be. College football is about $$$$. The 2nd and 3rd things it is about are also $$$$$$. Michigan and OSU = more $$$$.

[wadesworld]

It's hard to look back and say injuries mattered. Otherwise, Wisconsin could use that excuse. They lost to Michigan and OSU - each by one score; one in OT - without their best defensive player. Would it have mattered? Who knows?

With the PSU game, UW will have played 6 teams that were Top 10 when they played. OSU faced 1; Michigan faced 1. Maybe meaningless, maybe not. But certainly they have as good a case as any team other than Alabama. If MU and OSU were Illinois and Purdue with the same records, UW would be rated ahead of them.

So the system isn't fair and never will be. College football is about $$$$. The 2nd and 3rd things it is about are also $$$$$$. Michigan and OSU = more $$$$.

So because Michigan State was one of the most overrated teams in the history of college football going into the season UW should be rewarded? They're a horrendous football team. Nebraska isn't any good and hasn't beat anybody good either. UW lost to both OSU and to Michigan. If UW's 2 losses were to a 1 loss Illinois team and a 2 loss Purdue team they'd be ranked behind both. Clemson and Washington aren't bringing the NCAA more money than Michigan is.

[muwarrior69]

Well if Alabama and Western Michigan remain undefeated at seasons end they should play for the Championship. But we all know that will never happen, which is why college football has no appeal at least for me. At the moment college basketball offers that possibility to every division 1 team. Let's hope it stays that way.

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/mikesullivan/status/802641487360049153







Exceedingly tough to tell anything. Call on the field has to stand. You can almost get the line judge's view from that twitter link. Tough.

Also, the first picture/meme is just to troll Michigan fans. Look at the hash marks - photoshopped/slanted.

[GGGG]

Well if Alabama and Western Michigan remain undefeated at seasons end they should play for the Championship. But we all know that will never happen, which is why college football has no appeal at least for me. At the moment college basketball offers that possibility to every division 1 team. Let's hope it stays that way.

Western Michigan should not be playing for the national championship unlesss you want to incentivize weak scheduling. 

Western Michigan should not be playing for the national c

Well if Alabama and Western Michigan remain undefeated at seasons end they should play for the Championship. But we all know that will never happen, which is why college football has no appeal at least for me. At the moment college basketball offers that possibility to every division 1 team. Let's hope it stays that way.

[wadesworld]

https://twitter.com/mikesullivan/status/802641487360049153







Exceedingly tough to tell anything. Call on the field has to stand. You can almost get the line judge's view from that twitter link. Tough.

Also, the first picture/meme is just to troll Michigan fans. Look at the hash marks - photoshopped/slanted.

Yup. The call on the field had to stand, no matter what that call was. No way you can find clear and decisive evidence of either side of the argument. I still think the ball never crossed the plane of the 15, but I can't say I know for sure. I just feel like the furthest forward the ball got was into #88's butt, and I think at that point #88's butt was behind the 15 yard line. But I can't see where the ball is in any of that, and I can certainly see how the ref would call it a first down live because from what I can see it seems like every part of his body other than where the ball was seemed to get further than where I think the ball got to.

[wadesworld]

Honest question, how much more money can one school bring in over another for a national semifinal/championship game? And in what way is that difference made, purely TV viewers? Merchandise?

I guess my point is, sure, for some random regular season game a big name school with huge followings will make a difference in the money generated. But won't the CFP sell themselves? I have to imagine the games will be sell outs regardless of who's playing, and as someone who isn't a huge college football fan myself I will be watching the semifinals and championship no matter who is playing. I imagine a lot of casual fans are the same, and if you just don't care for college football at all I doubt you're watching even if it's a school you think has a cool mascot or something.

[tower912]

Western Michigan should not be playing for the national championship unlesss you want to incentivize weak scheduling. 

Western Michigan should not be playing for the national c

I've watched the Broncos 4 times this year.  I grew up 5 miles from their campus, so I have a certain affection for them.   And their bars.     They are 2-0 on the road against the Big 1G.   Thanks, Northwestern and Illinois.   Their offense is good enough to score points against most teams.     Any top 20 team is going to hang >40 on the Bronco defense.   Lacks size up front and speed in back.   

[jesmu84]

I've watched the Broncos 4 times this year.  I grew up 5 miles from their campus, so I have a certain affection for them.   And their bars.     They are 2-0 on the road against the Big 1G.   Thanks, Northwestern and Illinois.   Their offense is good enough to score points against most teams.     Any top 20 team is going to hang >40 on the Bronco defense.   Lacks size up front and speed in back.   

Maybe I'm remembering it as more of a david vs goliath match-up than it really was... but didn't everyone think oklahoma was going to destroy boise st in the fiesta bowl?

[brandx]

Honest question, how much more money can one school bring in over another for a national semifinal/championship game? And in what way is that difference made, purely TV viewers? Merchandise?

I guess my point is, sure, for some random regular season game a big name school with huge followings will make a difference in the money generated. But won't the CFP sell themselves? I have to imagine the games will be sell outs regardless of who's playing, and as someone who isn't a huge college football fan myself I will be watching the semifinals and championship no matter who is playing. I imagine a lot of casual fans are the same, and if you just don't care for college football at all I doubt you're watching even if it's a school you think has a cool mascot or something.

Does the World Seies sell itself? Or, does it do better when the Cubs or the Yankees or the Dodgers are in it?

Would a San Antonio - Toronto matchup in the NBA Finals sell itself because of the event?

The "name" teams attract a much larger audience which drives advertising rates and future contracts.

[tower912]

Maybe I'm remembering it as more of a david vs goliath match-up than it really was... but didn't everyone think oklahoma was going to destroy boise st in the fiesta bowl?

And Central Michigan 'beat' Oklahoma St this year.    So, yes, there is always a chance that Western can stay in the game and win at the end.   Just giving a personal assessment after watching them a few times.   

[mu03eng]

It's hard to look back and say injuries mattered. Otherwise, Wisconsin could use that excuse. They lost to Michigan and OSU - each by one score; one in OT - without their best defensive player. Would it have mattered? Who knows?

With the PSU game, UW will have played 6 teams that were Top 10 when they played. OSU faced 1; Michigan faced 1. Maybe meaningless, maybe not. But certainly they have as good a case as any team other than Alabama. If MU and OSU were Illinois and Purdue with the same records, UW would be rated ahead of them.

So the system isn't fair and never will be. College football is about $$$$. The 2nd and 3rd things it is about are also $$$$$$. Michigan and OSU = more $$$$.

Ranked Top 10 at the time they played them??? That's not a thing anyone cares about, also who are the 6 that were Top 10. Best I can come up with is 4(if Wisconsin beats PSU): OSU, LSU, MSU and Michigan.

 As far as I can tell, Wisconsin has not beaten anyone that is currently ranked in the top 25 let alone the top 10. That might change come Saturday but there is no way by any rational standard that Wisconsin deserves to go to the playoffs over Ohio State and it would be tough to put them in over Michigan as well, but if they win the B1G championship you'd have to put them over Michigan.

As far as the money goes I don't think there is appreciable difference between OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State in terms of the eyeballs or $ driven. They are all well followed, highly visible programs. Putting Wisconsin not getting on $ alone is simply you not wanting to come to terms with Wisconsin's schedule not living up to the hype(not their fault LSU and MSU suck) and them potentially just not being as good as you'd like them to be.

Last thing on the injuries, normally I'm with you on that's part of the game but when Penn State is having to play their 4th string outside linebacker at INSIDE linebacker, a position he literally never played before, because the first 4 inside linebackers are injured or otherwise unavailable that's a problem....especially when its the 2nd quarter on the road at Michigan. Not saying they would have won, but I like the team that's playing a lot more now then the one that was playing then.

[GGGG]

Ranked Top 10 at the time they played them??? That's not a thing anyone cares about, also who are the 6 that were Top 10. Best I can come up with is 4(if Wisconsin beats PSU): OSU, LSU, MSU and Michigan.

 As far as I can tell, Wisconsin has not beaten anyone that is currently ranked in the top 25 let alone the top 10. T

LSU is ranked 21 in the AP poll.  Nebraska is ranked 23. If they beat Penn State, that would be a third. 

Ohio State has beaten Michigan, Wisconsin, Oklahoma and Nebraska.  Only loss on the road to Penn State.  According to the criteria, they most definitely deserve to get in.  Not just about the money.

If Michigan gets in over the B10 champion, that would be a problem. 

[mu03eng]

LSU is ranked 21 in the AP poll.  Nebraska is ranked 23. If they beat Penn State, that would be a third. 

Ohio State has beaten Michigan, Wisconsin, Oklahoma and Nebraska.  Only loss on the road to Penn State.  According to the criteria, they most definitely deserve to get in.  Not just about the money.

If Michigan gets in over the B10 champion, that would be a problem.

Michigan has three top 10 wins (PSU, Wisconsin, and Colorado) and a OT loss to the number 2 team on the road. The Iowa loss is inexplicable so that hurts them some. I'm not advocating for Michigan to get in over Wisconsin, but the only reason Wisconsin would get in over Michigan is because they played in the western division and won the conference game.

[GGGG]

Michigan has three top 10 wins (PSU, Wisconsin, and Colorado) and a OT loss to the number 2 team on the road. The Iowa loss is inexplicable so that hurts them some. I'm not advocating for Michigan to get in over Wisconsin, but the only reason Wisconsin would get in over Michigan is because they played in the western division and won the conference game.

I forgot they beat Colorado.  That would make it more palatable. 

[wadesworld]

Michigan has three top 10 wins (PSU, Wisconsin, and Colorado) and a OT loss to the number 2 team on the road. The Iowa loss is inexplicable so that hurts them some. I'm not advocating for Michigan to get in over Wisconsin, but the only reason Wisconsin would get in over Michigan is because they played in the western division and won the conference game.

Iowa is ranked 22nd.

[jesmu84]

I think the biggest problem, outside of the need to expand, is the committee announcing their standards. Best 4? Conference finishes? Etc. Make it clear to the schools, teams and fans.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think the biggest problem, outside of the need to expand, is the committee announcing their standards. Best 4? Conference finishes? Etc. Make it clear to the schools, teams and fans.

The "criteria" is that the 4 teams who the committee feels are the best teams will make the playoff. There will never be clear-cut standards for a 4 team playoff. If there were, the committee couldn't do things like bump TCU for Ohio State...or potentially bump conference champ Colorado for Michigan. 

Personally, I think that if a team doesn't win their conference, they can't be in the playoff unless the conference champ is also in.

[GGGG]

But Ohio State should have been in two years ago.  Their schedule was much more difficult than TCU's.

That being said, the "guiding document" is here:

http://d30ratpzqzalg7.cloudfront.net/CD-drupal-cfp-PROD/s3fs-public/CFP%20Selection%20Committee%20Protocol.pdf?tV3FOZ68If3qops3X7XJQFmkEd00PiAY

[mu03eng]