Better Start than Last Year

[GGGG]

Or at least 1A.  Having either of those guys on the floor as the same time as Markus or Traci gives you multiple ball handlers on the floor at the same time.

[MU82]

Duane doesn't have to start to be effective -- which was exactly the case last night.

Duane doesn't have to be an anointed "PG" to think like a PG -- which was exactly the case last night.

I thought he was used just about right last night. If he really has it going in a tight game, he should play more. If he struggles (as he occasionally does), he should play less.

We have several players capable of initiating the offense: Traci, Markus, Duane, Haani, JJJ, Rowsey. I'm quite convinced that JJJ is the best passer on the entire team; doesn't mean he can play PG but it means he can be (and often is) a facilitator.

As for the OP, I agree we are a better team, especially on offense. The main thing is the lower turnover rate -- we get more and better possessions. I also agree we lost the Pitt game when we got away from what we do best offensively.

Our defense is going to be frustrating all season because we lack size and because some of our best offensive players aren't the best defenders; that's just going to be part of the trade-off. We will have games where JJJ, Haani and others get a lot of steals and it will make us better defensively, but there will be games when they will be out of position and that will hurt us. Again, a trade-off.

I think this team has been entertaining so far and will continue to be.

[79Warrior]

Revisit the topic on 12/10/16 after the Georgia and Wisconsin games are completed.  Then we should know the status of this team.

Exactly.

[Lennys Tap]

Dr. Blackheart

I would have DW playing a ton of PG at this point. That, if simply a building year, I would give Howard the time.

Right now Duane is more experienced and a better all around player than Traci, Rowsey or Howard. The numbers and the eye test say it loud and clear. Yet they're all logging similar minutes. People have mocked me in the past for suggesting Wojo (and new coaches in general) favor their own recruits over the leftovers they inherit. Is there any other plausible explanation for those 4 to basically split time?

[mu03eng]

The traditional PG role is not something that Wojo wants/needs at MU right now. That is good and bad but as a result I think we are going to continue to see variation in performance.

If you look at the potential PG styles we have on the team, we have at least 3 styles
Carter/Duane: is largely a slash and/or kick type who initiates offense out of his initial action
Howard: is a preliminary a ball handler/shooter who is going to kick almost every time he drives
Rowsey: is a shooter who drives off the shooting action to initiate the action

Those styles are different enough that the way the offense works changes depending on who's running the point. Ideally you would have one of Carter/Duane and one of Rowsey/Howard on the court together which generates the best offensive flexibility. However that comes at the price of being the worst defensive/rebounding option.

Wojo is going to have to make a choice here shortly if he is going to stay with man to man pressure defense but maximum offense or if he is going to accept inconsistent offense with a more adequate defensive capability.

[wadesworld]

Right now Duane is more experienced and a better all around player than Traci, Rowsey or Howard. The numbers and the eye test say it loud and clear. Yet they're all logging similar minutes. People have mocked me in the past for suggesting Wojo (and new coaches in general) favor their own recruits over the leftovers they inherit. Is there any other plausible explanation for those 4 to basically split time?

Yes, there is.

Duane plays a different position than the other 3.  Comparing Duane's minutes to those other three is like comparing Duane's minutes to Luke's.

As someone said, Duane's biggest weakness offensively is his ball handling.  Once in the half court he can play that roll of a point guard initiating the offense, but getting into the half court is Duane's weakness.  Hence you need at least one of Traci, Markus, or Rowsey on the court with Duane, whereas Markus and Rowsey can play both on or off the ball.

[Lennys Tap]

The traditional PG role is not something that Wojo wants/needs at MU right now. That is good and bad but as a result I think we are going to continue to see variation in performance.

If you look at the potential PG styles we have on the team, we have at least 3 styles
Carter/Duane: is largely a slash and/or kick type who initiates offense out of his initial action
Howard: is a preliminary a ball handler/shooter who is going to kick almost every time he drives
Rowsey: is a shooter who drives off the shooting action to initiate the action

Those styles are different enough that the way the offense works changes depending on who's running the point. Ideally you would have one of Carter/Duane and one of Rowsey/Howard on the court together which generates the best offensive flexibility. However that comes at the price of being the worst defensive/rebounding option.

Wojo is going to have to make a choice here shortly if he is going to stay with man to man pressure defense but maximum offense or if he is going to accept inconsistent offense with a more adequate defensive capability.

It's good to have choices and each player will have games where he shines.

But let's not overthink this. Duane is the best player of the four. His runs and his leash should be the longest.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's good to have choices and each player will have games where he shines.

But let's not overthink this. Duane is the best player of the four. His runs and his leash should be the longest.

To be fair, to date, Duane has gotten the most run of the four. Only a little more than Carter but by a couple of minutes a game over Howard/Rowsey. I would also say that Duane has only objectively been the best of the four in one game. Carter was better in the Vanderbilt game, Howard was better in the Howard game (hah!), Howard and Duane were similar in the Michigan game, and Rowsey was better in the Pitt game. His best two games of the season were also the most recent. If that trend continues than I suspect that he will further distance himself from the other three.

Also, like Wades said, Duane is not a PG. He's not competing with Carter, Howard, and Rowsey. He's competing with Johnson and Cheatham. Now if Duane continues this run and shows he's definitively better than Carter/Howard/Rowsey, do you play him at the PG to get your best three guards on the floor? I could hear that argument.

[wadesworld]

It's good to have choices and each player will have games where he shines.

But let's not overthink this. Duane is the best player of the four. His runs and his leash should be the longest.

He's our version of Riley LaChance.  Sure, he could play the point if there is nobody else on the roster available to play the point.  But he is much better off the ball.  Unfortunately for Vandy, they don't have any other options so Riley has to play out of position.  Fortunately for us we do have other options so Duane can play off the ball.  Unfortunately for Duane he also has more competition off the ball as well.

[Herman Cain]

24 point win over Vandy is better than a 1 point win over LSU
32 point win over Howard is better than a 3 point loss to Belmont
18 point loss to Michigan on a neutral court is better than a 28 point loss to Iowa at home
3 point loss to Pitt is worse but not by much than an OT victory over Arizona State
25 point win over IUPUI is better than an OT victory over IUPUI.

I think it is safe to say that this team is better than last year's....and that team wasn't that far off from dancing. That's what gives me hope. What gives me doubt is that both our non-conference and conference schedules are likely to be more difficult. Will the improvement be enough?

You have said for some time the team would be better this year. I believe the team is better and has better on court chemistry .  I also believe the Big East top to bottom is equal to or greater than they were last year and we have two more tough games. We will learn a lot about how improved we are after the Georgia game. We could be a better team and have a worse record.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You have said for some time the team would be better this year. I believe the team is better and has better on court chemistry .  I also believe the Big East top to bottom is equal to or greater than they were last year and we have two more tough games. We will learn a lot about how improved we are after the Georgia game. We could be a better team and have a worse record.

Honestly, that's what I expect. I think I predicted 18 wins for us preseason.

[willie warrior]

I would love that.
[/quoteyes, we need to start that debate of 2 years ago

[GB Warrior]

Deck chairs on the titanic.

[Loose Cannon]

Deck chairs on the titanic.

And taking Desert, that's really good.

[MU82]

Deck chairs on the titanic.

Huh?

[The Lens]

I watched Duane quite a bit at Dominican.  He never seemed like a PG to me, he seemed like a classic combo guard (that to me screams small SG).  Sure he could dominate with the ball but that was due to competition rather than instinct. 

While I would love to see him starting, I think his role of Super Sub is great for him.  He has the 3rd highest usage on the team so it's not like his nailed to the bench.  And I think he'll end up being a closer for us. 

[Loose Cannon]

I watched Duane quite a bit at Dominican.  He never seemed like a PG to me, he seemed like a classic combo guard (that to me screams small SG).  Sure he could dominate with the ball but that was due to competition rather than instinct. 

While I would love to see him starting, I think his role of Super Sub is great for him.  He has the 3rd highest usage on the team so it's not like his nailed to the bench.  And I think he'll end up being a closer for us.

Yep, I like your insight.

[GB Warrior]

Huh?

If the browns start 1-10 next year, they will be "better than last year"

[Goose]

Lenny

If you are playing to win Wilson gets the minutes. I suspect there will be less sharing of minutes as the season moves on.

[mu03eng]

If the browns start 1-10 next year, they will be "better than last year"

I'm know I've been pessimistic the last couple of days, but this is insane. Last year's team was a DePaul and Belmont win away from making the tournament. So if we agree they are better this year that implies they should make the tournament, correct?

[GB Warrior]

I'm know I've been pessimistic the last couple of days, but this is insane. Last year's team was a DePaul and Belmont win away from making the tournament. So if we agree they are better this year that implies they should make the tournament, correct?

I know that's the extreme, but the point is that "better" is not an aspiration this team should  be gunning for absent an end goal. I don't agree with polishing our two losses - those look like games last year's team would have lost in that fashion. Yes, Vandy was a great game, but the jury is still out on what all of those independent results mean. But better means very little to me if we miss the dance.

[bilsu]

Duane isn't a PG. He has the build of one and fans seem to want him to be one, but he just isn't. He can drive and create but he's not a strong enough ball-handler against pressure to log significant minutes at the point. He has also done very well providing offense off the bench.

I agree, if the we are being pressed, Wilson may not be the best choice at point. In that case replace him with someone that is. Otherwise, he may be the best point on the team.

[RJax55]

I watched Duane quite a bit at Dominican.  He never seemed like a PG to me, he seemed like a classic combo guard (that to me screams small SG).  Sure he could dominate with the ball but that was due to competition rather than instinct. 

While I would love to see him starting, I think his role of Super Sub is great for him.  He has the 3rd highest usage on the team so it's not like his nailed to the bench.  And I think he'll end up being a closer for us.

I agree.

Also, Wojo doesn't see/use Duane as a PG. Outside of handful of minutes, Wilson has played strictly off the ball under Wojo. Posters can agree or disagree whether that is his correct role. But it seems pointless to talk about a position move that is not going to happen.

One big thing I've noticed from Duane is that his explosion and vertical are back. Athletically, he looks like the guy back at Dominican. His first two years, but especially last year, it was missing.

[MU82]

I know that's the extreme, but the point is that "better" is not an aspiration this team should  be gunning for absent an end goal. I don't agree with polishing our two losses - those look like games last year's team would have lost in that fashion. Yes, Vandy was a great game, but the jury is still out on what all of those independent results mean. But better means very little to me if we miss the dance.

You are allowed to be a pessimist, just as I am allowed to be an optimist.

I'll take "better," and I think if it happens, we will be dancing.

I find that more fun and satisfying than comparing us to one of the worst pro football teams ever ... but whatevs.

[GGGG]

I agree.

Also, Wojo doesn't see/use Duane as a PG. Outside of handful of minutes, Wilson has played strictly off the ball under Wojo. Posters can agree or disagree whether that is his correct role. But it seems pointless to talk about a position move that is not going to happen.

One big thing I've noticed from Duane is that his explosion and vertical are back. Athletically, he looks like the guy back at Dominican. His first two years, but especially last year, it was missing.

Right.  And you can positively impact the flow of the game and movement of the ball without being a "point guard."  In this offense, you have plenty of opportunity which was shown last night with his six assists.