Klinsmann Fired

[brewcity77]

I know we have a futbol talk thread, but this is pretty big news. Jurgen Klinsmann has been fired as the Coach and Technical Director for USA Soccer. Sounds like Bruce Arena is the favorite to replace him and negotiations are already under way. Hopefully on a 2-year deal to get us through 2018.

I've given JK a lot of crap and am glad to see him go, but I am also glad for the recruiting he did getting in players like Johnson, Brooks, Zelalem, Green, and others. I hope that he has opened up the USA as an option for dual nationals so that we don't need JK himself to do the recruiting and other managers can continue finding talented kids that can play for us. I also like that he had the willingness to experiment a bit. It may have gone south at times, but I think in the long run, the willingness to state intent to play aggressive at least shows that we can at times play that way. At the same time, it should reinforce for the new manager that we are a nation best suited to play defense and win through set pieces and counters.

Camp Cupcake will be very interesting. Can't wait to see who comes in as new players and which of the old guard aren't invited back. Great time for an overhaul.

[GGGG]

I just hope Arena will use the dual nationals recruited by Klinnsman because he wasn't terribly excited about them as a concept. 

[Shaka Shart]

I heard a couple sources express their desire for him to stay on with the good job he did recruiting some of the young dual national talent. Doesn't appear to be the case though. Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

[mu03eng]

I just hope Arena will use the dual nationals recruited by Klinnsman because he wasn't terribly excited about them as a concept.

I don't think he was terribly excited to go out and recruit them/play dual national politics, I have no doubt he will use the talent once it's here.

[Cooby Snacks]

Team's still going to be terrible. They'll scrape through qualifying and with a friendly draw maybe get out of the group stage in 2018, but the scissors between the US and top-level countries will continue to widen.

Can't imagine how ugly this current group would look if the dual nationals weren't in the mix.

[MU82]

Is Shaka available?

[brewcity77]

Team's still going to be terrible. They'll scrape through qualifying and with a friendly draw maybe get out of the group stage in 2018, but the scissors between the US and top-level countries will continue to widen.

Can't imagine how ugly this current group would look if the dual nationals weren't in the mix.

I don't think that's true at all. The gap between us and the top-level countries hasn't widened since 1990, certainly.

I think a lot of people right now are failing to realize that we're really only one generation into this whole "USA Soccer" thing. If you look at the state of the player pool since 1994 when we hosted, it's simply ridiculous how much better it is. Back then, we didn't have choices about who the managers would take. It was pretty clear cut that there were about 30 or so guys you'd consider. Now we have players overseas, we have MLS, we didn't even have a domestic league.

It's been one generation since we hosted. The kids that were born in the wake of that World Cup are just now starting to play for us. Compare that to nations like England, Germany, Brazil, Italy, Mexico, and Spain where they have been doing this for over a century. So in a generation, we're to the point where qualification seems to be virtually guaranteed and we're fairly regularly contesting into the knockout rounds.

I know we live in an immediate satisfaction society, but we've come a huge distance in a short period of time. Right now, Arena will probably be looking at around 75-100 players to bring to Camp Cupcake, and many of those won't necessarily be the obvious names. I think Jurgen's greatest problem was he tried to force what has been a fairly organic process. You can't go from 20 years of history to 120 years of history in 6 years.

We need to get back to doing what we have always done well. Playing defense, stretching games out, winning setpieces. Throwing out a fancy 3-5-2 against our biggest rivals in a qualifier is just stupidity. Play smart and within ourselves, keep showing results on the pitch, and in 20-30 years, maybe we'll bridge the rest of that gap.

[MarquetteDano]

I know I am being a Liverpool homer but I would have loved if the US made a run at Rafa Benitez.  That guy did more with less talent than anyone I have ever seen.  You think that the English Championship at Newcastle isn't where he would prefer to be.

Bruce Arena?  Ugh.

[WarriorFan]

I know I am being a Liverpool homer but I would have loved if the US made a run at Rafa Benitez.  That guy did more with less talent than anyone I have ever seen.  You think that the English Championship at Newcastle isn't where he would prefer to be.

Bruce Arena?  Ugh.

couldn't agree more!
Klinsman definitely had the wrong style of play for the USA talent.  Need to use the USA speed, which almost no-one can match.  At least Arena understands the small advantages the USA has (speed, goal keeping) which were things that Klinsmann almost killed.  But Arena is a re-tread, what we really need is a top flight international coach who can take the program to the top 5 level.  The talent is there.

[GGGG]

couldn't agree more!
Klinsman definitely had the wrong style of play for the USA talent.  Need to use the USA speed, which almost no-one can match.  At least Arena understands the small advantages the USA has (speed, goal keeping) which were things that Klinsmann almost killed.  But Arena is a re-tread, what we really need is a top flight international coach who can take the program to the top 5 level.  The talent is there.

No actually top 5 talent isn't there.

[brewcity77]

couldn't agree more!
Klinsman definitely had the wrong style of play for the USA talent.  Need to use the USA speed, which almost no-one can match.  At least Arena understands the small advantages the USA has (speed, goal keeping) which were things that Klinsmann almost killed.  But Arena is a re-tread, what we really need is a top flight international coach who can take the program to the top 5 level.  The talent is there.

No one can match our speed? Hmm...I think that Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, the Dutch, and numerous others would leave us in the dust. The advantages we have generally are size and strength on the back line (also useful for setpieces), team spirit (which JK identified but could not capitalize on), and depth up the middle of the midfield (Bradley, Williams, Pulisic, Nagbe, etc).

We aren't close to the top-5 and aren't close to that talent level. Too many kids grow up wanting to play in the NFL or NBA for that to happen. We need a coach who can be defensive minded and willing to be patient enough to play a counter-attacking style. Technically, we aren't going to win the possession battle against top teams, so it all starts with having a strong keeper and two stout central defenders that can mark and win aerial battles. Fullbacks that are defenders first, or if they are attackers, wing midfielders that are at their best tracking back to help cover (think Gyasi Zardes). We need solid tacklers in front of the defense that can win balls.

Once you have that core, that focus on the backline, you can worry about getting the ball forward, winning free kicks at advantageous positions, and taking advantage of what little speed we do have (Jordan Morris and...umm...well that's about it in the final third). Our counters need to be predicated on at least one guy with speed (Morris could work, playing similar to how Eddie Johnson did at his peak) and one guy that can finish a cross (McBride was our best, but Dempsey and Altidore have had decent results there as well). The wings need to be able to get balls into the middle of the pitch, again because we will be working off quick hit counters. And the big boys at the back need to be able to attack setpieces (in the past how Onyewu did, today Birnbaum is the best).

We're not going to outskill anyone. We're not going to outrun anyone. We have to be the team that is willing to bunker in and make people work for their chances. The teams that others hate to play because we're just a constant pain in the ass. Hopefully Arena grasps that. The skill will come as guys like Pulisic, Zelalem, Rubin, Arriola, and others start to mature, and maybe in a generation or so we'll start to close the talent gap. For now? Not so much.

[jesmu84]

The notion that USA is a nation that thrives at countering and we can't be good at any other style is absolutely baffling.

[MarquetteDano]

I just don't think Arena is the answer.  Very disappointed in our choice.  We really needed a guy who can outcoach the other side.  All of those coaches are basically in Europe so most of them don't know our players but I think they would be smart enough to hire people who could help evaluate the talent we do have.

I agree with Brew that a defensive minded genius is what we needed to go after.  We didn't do that.

[caltruda]

I wanted Bielsa when Bradley was fired, but also knew the USSF couldn't afford him and Gulati was too enamored of Klinsmann to take anything other than yes for the job. I'm kind of disappointed this firing hasn't evolved into a referendum on Sunil as well, though he'll be remembered favorably unless the U.S. somehow doesn't win the rights to host the 2026 World Cup.

I'm ok with Arena being Mr. Fix-it for this cycle because everyone's role is clearly defined: Get us to Russia, then figure out how to be successful in Russia. The wild card this time around is how good are the bottom three teams of the hex because I don't think 11 points will be good enough for fourth this time around. Almost everyone snuck a point out of Azteca last cycle, and after the first two matches, it makes more sense to root for Mexico and Costa Rica -- as much as it sucks to root for El Tri -- to get results that create the haves and have-nots.

I look forward to Arena creating an identity for this team and sticking with it as opposed to Klinsi throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks when it comes to tactics. And while one associates a "golden generation" with winning titles, I am hoping at some point this group that includes Pulisic, Zelalem, Green Gooch, Hyndman and a few of the other youngsters can at least be the foundation for a team that has a chance to compete against the world's best.

[brewcity77]

I wanted Bielsa when Bradley was fired, but also knew the USSF couldn't afford him and Gulati was too enamored of Klinsmann to take anything other than yes for the job. I'm kind of disappointed this firing hasn't evolved into a referendum on Sunil as well, though he'll be remembered favorably unless the U.S. somehow doesn't win the rights to host the 2026 World Cup.

I'm ok with Arena being Mr. Fix-it for this cycle because everyone's role is clearly defined: Get us to Russia, then figure out how to be successful in Russia. The wild card this time around is how good are the bottom three teams of the hex because I don't think 11 points will be good enough for fourth this time around. Almost everyone snuck a point out of Azteca last cycle, and after the first two matches, it makes more sense to root for Mexico and Costa Rica -- as much as it sucks to root for El Tri -- to get results that create the haves and have-nots.

I look forward to Arena creating an identity for this team and sticking with it as opposed to Klinsi throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks when it comes to tactics. And while one associates a "golden generation" with winning titles, I am hoping at some point this group that includes Pulisic, Zelalem, Green Gooch, Hyndman and a few of the other youngsters can at least be the foundation for a team that has a chance to compete against the world's best.

I'm on board with this. What we needed was a bandaid hire to stop the bleeding that has us bottom of the table with a coach that has clearly lost the team. We don't want a manager to take us to 2022, just through Russia.

I hope we see the rumored term limits on the USSF presidency. Gulati has had his thumb on the pulse long enough. 2018 should be a time for fresh blood. That said, I've always wanted 2026. In a perfect world, a USA/England semifinal on America's 250th birthday would be epic.