Defensive challenge

[GGGG]

I haven't seen anyone "decry anything that may mention that wojo could be in over his head." I have seen people decry things that declare that wojo is a failure and will never get better and should be fired immediately.

Not only that, but I don't see many posters who take a more optimistic view than "he's a work in progress." 

[mu03eng]

But Wojo did that because he had too, because he was left an incomplete roster. It doesn't seem to be his preferred method. Buzz on the other hand, had a full roster given to him and still recruited a lot of "quick fix" players.

I think Buzz's "quick fix" guys stick out more because they were typically our best players, while his HS recruits were largely unsuccessful.

One could also argue (I'd be one) that Buzz's quick fix program worked as long as Buzz was here but as soon as he was almost gone the talent pool cratered and left us the mess Wojo is still trying to clean up. I think it was Paint Touches that did a breakdown of Buzz's high school (i.e. long term) talent misses, it was amazing almost no player that wasn't a Juco developed or succeeded at MU. Could be Buzz couldn't develop players or was bad at spotting high school talent but either way with out the patch work of Juco's in Buzz's last year and Wojo's first two years the whole thing fell apart.

Clearly Wojo hasn't had the eye Buzz did for Juco/transfer players, but I also think Wojo is building a foundation in which we don't have to depend on that route. Should a great player be available, Wojo'd take him I'm sure but we don't have to depend on it by developing talent and keeping classes balanced, etc.

[Let's Go Warriors]

I haven't seen anyone "decry anything that may mention that wojo could be in over his head." I have seen people decry things that declare that wojo is a failure and will never get better and should be fired immediately.

Maybe i missed it as well, but I dont see anyone saying Wojo should be fired immediately.  I have seen however, some say he should get the remainder of this season and then if things arent working out he should be let go.

To me it would not be based only on record.  Id want to see strides of improvement in the area of team defense before I made a decision.  I do completely disagree with those who say he should just get 2 more years after this one. 

[mu03eng]

Excellent point.  And then add to the fact that there are some on this board that decry anything that may mention that Wojo COULD possibly be in over his head at this point in his first head coaching gig.  I really hope he gets this thing going.  I REALLY do, because MU gets back to where they need to be quicker if Wojo works out.  I am however, having my doubts with regards to his ability to teach defense to this team.

People react negatively to hyperbole, not to the reasonable position that there is cause for concern around Wojo. I've been one of the folks leading the "Wojo might not be a good game manager/coach" drum but no one is decrying my position because I'm not flying off the handle saying we're all going to die and that Wojo is the worst. Have a reasonable viewpoint and even better have evidence to back it up and the decrying will be kept to a minimum in my experience. 

[GGGG]

Maybe i missed it as well, but I dont see anyone saying Wojo should be fired immediately.  I have seen however, some say he should get the remainder of this season and then if things arent working out he should be let go.

To me it would not be based only on record.  Id want to see strides of improvement in the area of team defense before I made a decision.  I do completely disagree with those who say he should just get 2 more years after this one. 

Firing him after this year is basically firing him immediately.  And it's simply not going to happen regardless if you think it should or not.  Unless they completely fall apart, he is going to be given at least one more year.  Probably more.

[Let's Go Warriors]

Firing him after this year is basically firing him immediately.  And it's simply not going to happen regardless if you think it should or not.  Unless they completely fall apart, he is going to be given at least one more year.  Probably more.

The bold is absurd.  You stating you know for a fact what is going to happen is also absurd.  Id say under 500 in the BE and he COULD be in trouble.  Depending on how they are playing.

[GGGG]

The bold is absurd.  You stating you know for a fact what is going to happen is also absurd.  Id say under 500 in the BE and he COULD be in trouble.  Depending on how they are playing.

Look, it's not going to happen.  They are not going to let him go when he has two highly rated recruiting classes coming off their freshman and sophomore seasons.  They extended him last year for a reason.  Unless he finishes significantly under .500 or has other issues arise, they have made a long-term investment in him. 

[mu03eng]

The bold is absurd.  You stating you know for a fact what is going to happen is also absurd.  Id say under 500 in the BE and he COULD be in trouble.  Depending on how they are playing.

Not only is it not absurd it is 100% correct. Whether you like it or not, the people that make the decisions are completely behind Wojo and he has at least this season and next to meet expectations. Baring something catastrophic on the court or something significantly bad off the court the coaching chair isn't even warm after this season. And that's not my opinion, that is direct from people who have say in the decision.

[LAZER]

Not only is it not absurd it is 100% correct. Whether you like it or not, the people that make the decisions are completely behind Wojo and he has at least this season and next to meet expectations.Baring something catastrophic on the court or something significantly bad off the court the coaching chair isn't even warm after this season. And that's not my opinion, that is direct from people who have say in the decision.

What do you think those expectations are? Tournament?

[jesmu84]

I agree with this.  With this style of Defense on the pick and roll, is it valid to think that Fischer is being told to play it this way?  Maybe someone else is supposed to rotate over on the roll man?  I dont think Fischer or Wojo are dumb.  How can it be that Fischer is playing what appears to be repeatedly stupid defense over and over again?  And in many cases putting him in a position to get a foul 22' from the basket?

At some point while this style can be very valid, dont you have to give up on it?

I dunno. What has Wojo been saying in the televised huddles? You seem to put a lot of stake in that.

[Let's Go Warriors]

I dunno. What has Wojo been saying in the televised huddles? You seem to put a lot of stake in that.

And you seem to post a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic. 

What are your thoughts on MUs pick and roll defense?
Is it good?
Is there a strategy concern?
How is the overall defense?

Say something, anything that displays any rational thought whatsoever.

[mu03eng]

And you seem to post a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic. 

What are your thoughts on MUs pick and roll defense?
Is it good?
Is there a strategy concern?
How is the overall defense?

Say something, anything that displays any rational thought whatsoever.

Jes apparently the nana nana argument you normally make won't work here

[mu03eng]

What do you think those expectations are? Tournament?

I'd say leadership expectations are improvement on last year and make a post season tournament of some type (NIT or NCAA). Next year is the year they are expecting NCAA at a minimum. Preference is definitely this year of course.

[Lennys Tap]

But Wojo did that because he had too, because he was left an incomplete roster. It doesn't seem to be his preferred method. Buzz on the other hand, had a full roster given to him and still recruited a lot of "quick fix" players.

I think Buzz's "quick fix" guys stick out more because they were typically our best players, while his HS recruits were largely unsuccessful.

For every year but year 1 Buzz was left with an "incomplete roster". By year 3, there was nobody left from the Crean era on Buzz's team. This year (his third) Wojo has Fischer, JJJ and Duane Wilson.

Once the gap of a bare cupboard was bridged (for years 2, 3 and 4), Buzz had zero jucos in year 5 (Elite 8, Big East regular season champ) and year 6 (disappointment largely due to Vander leaving).

[Let's Go Warriors]

I'd say leadership expectations are improvement on last year and make a post season tournament of some type (NIT or NCAA). Next year is the year they are expecting NCAA at a minimum. Preference is definitely this year of course.

This is reasonable.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The bold is absurd.  You stating you know for a fact what is going to happen is also absurd.  Id say under 500 in the BE and he COULD be in trouble.  Depending on how they are playing.

Allow me to clarify. When I said "fired immediately" I meant either now or at the end of the season. Barring major off the court issues or less than three Big East wins, Wojo will be our coach next year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And you seem to post a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic. 

What are your thoughts on MUs pick and roll defense?
Is it good?
Is there a strategy concern?
How is the overall defense?

Say something, anything that displays any rational thought whatsoever.

As Marcus92 pointed out in another thread, we have actually improved both our offensive and defensive efficiency from last season by a significant margin. Its way too early to declare that the defense is better, but any stats we have point to us being better as a whole. Will it be enough improvement given our tougher schedule/conference? We will see.

[jesmu84]

And you seem to post a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic. 

What are your thoughts on MUs pick and roll defense?
Is it good?
Is there a strategy concern?
How is the overall defense?

Say something, anything that displays any rational thought whatsoever.

The relevant nonsense is you putting any weight, whatsoever, on the televised huddles. And I only brought it up because you continue to mention it over and over.

We are (mostly) young team still learning. Wojo clearly wants to play a certain style. Whether or not we have the talent/ability/experience to play it, I'm not sure.

I don't believe there is a concern, yet. Give it time. When we get into conference play, narrow down the rotation, then I'll evaluate. Early non-con is not the time to panic. As evidenced by objective data, we are improving.

[Let's Go Warriors]

The relevant nonsense is you putting any weight, whatsoever, on the televised huddles. And I only brought it up because you continue to mention it over and over.

We are (mostly) young team still learning. Wojo clearly wants to play a certain style. Whether or not we have the talent/ability/experience to play it, I'm not sure.

I don't believe there is a concern, yet. Give it time. When we get into conference play, narrow down the rotation, then I'll evaluate. Early non-con is not the time to panic. As evidenced by objective data, we are improving.

You are full of crap.  I have not brought it up over and over. You are harping on it.  let it go...

[jesmu84]

You are full of crap.  I have not brought it up over and over. You are harping on it.  let it go...

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875189#msg875189

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875059#msg875059

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875054#msg875054

[jesmu84]

Jes apparently the nana nana argument you normally make won't work here

Hey, I know my role around here. As long as others understand it too.

Surprising it didn't work. It so often does.

[Let's Go Warriors]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875189#msg875189

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875059#msg875059

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52722.msg875054#msg875054

did you actually read my subsequent responses or are you just being a jag on purpose?

[Marcus92]

Perhaps it's fitting for this thread that people seem to be getting so defensive.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Perhaps it's fitting for this thread that people seem to be getting so defensive.

[Marcus92]

Yeah, it was a terrible joke.