Does Wojo Need a Hank?

[warriorstrack]

When I first read the title I thought it meant "Hank" as in the dog that was a distraction for the Brewer's awful season the year they "found" him.  We don't need a distraction we need wins, they cure all.

[keefe]

4ever
Pressure D was, is and always be the best way to win in college ball. We were spoiled back in the day and closet we have come to that was a couple of seasons with the Buzzer. IMO you need a PG that can play lockdown D and score on other end. At the moment MU does not come close in that area.

We have discussed the particulars before but Marquette under Al routinely led the nation in fewest points allowed per game. Al's schtick was that he wasn't a tactician but, in fact, he was a brilliant defensive strategist. McGuire devised some of the most effective zones ever. He was an innovator.

Hank could organize an efficient practice. Al created brilliant game plans that began with smothering defense.

[Dr. Blackheart]

We have discussed the particulars before but Marquette under Al routinely led the nation in fewest points allowed per game. Al's schtick was that he wasn't a tactician but, in fact, he was a brilliant defensive strategist. McGuire devised some of the most effective zones ever. He was an innovator.

Hank could organize an efficient practice. Al created brilliant game plans that began with smothering defense.

Marquette's Mosquito Defense was Al's brainchild and legendary.  However, Hank's high post motion offense is still taught, and perhaps more apt today with the three ball now legalized.

[Goose]

Dr. Blackheart

Hank brought a lot of good to MU basketball and no one can argue that. The success of the Al era started and ended with the best D in the country. Their D changed games and allowed for easy buckets. In addition, having great talent did not hurt.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. Blackheart

Hank brought a lot of good to MU basketball and no one can argue that. The success of the Al era started and ended with the best D in the country. Their D changed games and allowed for easy buckets. In addition, having great talent did not hurt.

Never-the-less, the fact remains that Hank was an offensive innovator.  Altman still runs sets of the high post motion offense at Oregon at times, for example...and the principle of dual (or multiple) guards initiating the play (versus on PG) is a key tenant of all the various motion offenses run today.  UNC relied on Phil Ford to single-handedly run that UNC offense while Lee and Boylan ran Marquette's.  That was very unique back then and a key reason MU was able to win that NC.

Not to forget that as AD, women's sports and athletic fundraising were key initiatives Hank implemented at MU. 

[Goose]

Dr. BH
We are on same page regarding full body of work by Hank. A very nice man and would be hard pressed to say anything negative about him.

[real chili 83]

Al could break it down, but he let Hank do the prep worK.  John Wooden used to call Hank for bball advice.

Al told a story once how Hank was getting the team ready for a game while he was at Goolsebys knocking down a few. 

[keefe]

Hank's total contributions to Marquette are significant. My wife knew him rather well and considered him one of the finest gentlemen she had the pleasure to know.

There is no question that Hank knew the game better than every Scooper combined. But he was the right man for the wrong time. Al's personality resonated with the players he attracted to Marquette. He was larger than life and had edge. Hank could not and did not connect with the kids Al was able to bring to campus.

We had kids from Chicago and NYC lining up to play with Al - Scooter and Rodney, Aguirre, Cummings, and Bowie were in the bag until Al resigned. Hank's inability to keep them signaled the beginning of the end of our stay in the College Hoops Penthouse. And make no mistake - our decline was steep and fast.

Instead of the McCrays we were signing the Schlundts and Marquardts.

Hank was a great guy but I would have rather had Denny Crum at the helm.     

[#UnleashSean]

Definitely agree. 

Buzz didn't leave us in good shape (to say the least), but he also didn't inherit anything better in Blacksburg, and the Hokies are looking lightyears ahead of us right now...

He inherited something a lot worse and the hokies are looking lightyears ahead of us

[brewcity77]

He inherited something a lot worse and the hokies are looking lightyears ahead of us

But that's exactly what Buzz does. It's what he did here. Quick fix, bandaid and glue, then ride it until the roster falls apart. We knew from the start that Marquette was looking at a long term answer with Wojo. We'll probably see how successful Buzz's model can be longer term, but he's not coming back through that door and was never going to be the guy admin was comfortable with for the long haul.

[GGGG]

How are they "light years" ahead of us?  They've beaten Maine, High Point and VMI. 

Last year they finished #90 RPI.  We were #110.  Sure they are ahead of us.  Not only because of the points brew makes but because Buzz is a more experienced head coach.  I would expect them to be ahead.

[keefe]

because Buzz is a more experienced head coach.

Not sure I would say that a few years constitutes a significantly greater degree of experience.

Bert has VPU further along on a higher trajectory in the same amount of time than Wojo. Both inherited train wrecks and Bert got VPU into the NIT in Year 2. Lunardi and other pundits have VPU among the first four out or last four in for this season's Dance.

I would expect that Marquette, with its far richer tradition and much deeper pockets, would also be part of that conversation. Alas, we are not and likely will not be.

[Herman Cain]

Not sure I would say that a few years constitutes a significantly greater degree of experience.

Bert has VPU further along on a higher trajectory in the same amount of time than Wojo. Both inherited train wrecks and Bert got VPU into the NIT in Year 2. Lunardi and other pundits have VPU among the first four out or last four in for this season's Dance.

I would expect that Marquette, with its far richer tradition and much deeper pockets, would also be part of that conversation. Alas, we are not and likely will not be.

In addition VPI performed well agains the top level teams in the ACC. They have a very competitive team under Buzz.

[GGGG]

Not sure I would say that a few years constitutes a significantly greater degree of experience.

You don't think having seven seasons (six if you only include his years at MU), makes a difference when compared to someone who has none?  Of course it does.  Furthermore, Buzz had a broader bredth of experience working at six other schools before coming to MU.  Wojo worked at only one.  All that matters.

Bert has VPU further along on a higher trajectory in the same amount of time than Wojo. Both inherited train wrecks and Bert got VPU into the NIT in Year 2. Lunardi and other pundits have VPU among the first four out or last four in for this season's Dance.

Well in the latest Bracketology that you reference, which was before MU's games in NYC, both Marquette and VPI were in the "First Four Out."

Look, VPI is likely further along.  But "light years?"  Based on an NIT bid?  Cmon...

[keefe]

You don't think having seven seasons (six if you only include his years at MU), makes a difference when compared to someone who has none?  Of course it does.  Furthermore, Buzz had a broader bredth of experience working at six other schools before coming to MU.  Wojo worked at only one.  All that matters.


Well in the latest Bracketology that you reference, which was before MU's games in NYC, both Marquette and VPI were in the "First Four Out."

Look, VPI is likely further along.  But "light years?"  Based on an NIT bid?  Cmon...

I didn't say "light years." I said Bert has VPI further along and on a higher trajectory than Wojo does MU.

I agree that Bert has 6/7 more years head coaching experience but that is not the same as comparing Wojo with Boeheim or even Beilein.

Bert is just 44 years old and, until this century, his experience was limited to the far fringes of college basketball. Hell, Steve Smith and Morgan Wootten had more viable and relevant experience at the high school level than Bert did coaching at the "college" level.

And dismiss it all you want but Wojo had two decades experience in college basketball's most successful program. That is why he was hired and it has yet to articulate at Marquette.

[GGGG]

I didn't say "light years."

#UnleashWally did.  And that is who I initially responded to.

Bert is just 44 years old and, until this century, his experience was limited to the far fringes of college basketball. Hell, Steve Smith and Morgan Wootten had more viable and relevant experience at the high school level than Bert did coaching at the "college" level.

I don't agree with that in the least.  He was working at D1 schools, recruiting D1 athletes, within the bounds of the NCAA regulatory environment.  Much more relevant than a high level high school coach.

And dismiss it all you want but Wojo had two decades experience in college basketball's most successful program. That is why he was hired and it has yet to articulate at Marquette.

I'm not dismissing anything and I agree with you on your last point.

[tower912]

IMO, Buzz game to MU far more ready to be a head coach than Wojo.    And not just because he had a year as the head coach at UNO.   IMO, the vagabond existence that Buzz had, the multiple coaches he mentored under, gave him a width and breadth of experience that Wojo doesn't have.    Buzz had run multiple systems and styles and recruited players to play in those styles.    He picked and chose what he wanted from the broad tapestry of basketball he had been exposed to.   He saw what worked and what failed. 
   Wojo only knows the Duke way.    He has never seen any style other than K's.   He has never had to work to put the talent together.   K did that, both at Duke and with the Olympic team.    You can argue that Wojo has worked with more talent, but as a head coach, that is a detriment.    Wojo has never before been part of failure.    And the sustained success was the result of somebody else's leadership.    Failure teaches different, deeper, more important lessons than success.
   It has been my fear about Wojo that he would be unable to grow past his Duke roots, that he would be unable to open his mind to new/different ideas.    Now he is learning that Marquette is not Duke and he has no frame of reference.    So the challenge is laid bare.   Can he grow, adapt, bring his history of success and apply the template to a different team in a different league that is not guaranteed multiple 5 stars.      That is the only question that matters.    If he cannot, he will fail at Marquette. 

[brewcity77]

IMO, Buzz game to MU far more ready to be a head coach than Wojo.    And not just because he had a year as the head coach at UNO.   IMO, the vagabond existence that Buzz had, the multiple coaches he mentored under, gave him a width and breadth of experience that Wojo doesn't have.    Buzz had run multiple systems and styles and recruited players to play in those styles.    He picked and chose what he wanted from the broad tapestry of basketball he had been exposed to.   He saw what worked and what failed. 
   Wojo only knows the Duke way.    He has never seen any style other than K's.   He has never had to work to put the talent together.   K did that, both at Duke and with the Olympic team.    You can argue that Wojo has worked with more talent, but as a head coach, that is a detriment.    Wojo has never before been part of failure.    And the sustained success was the result of somebody else's leadership.    Failure teaches different, deeper, more important lessons than success.
   It has been my fear about Wojo that he would be unable to grow past his Duke roots, that he would be unable to open his mind to new/different ideas.    Now he is learning that Marquette is not Duke and he has no frame of reference.    So the challenge is laid bare.   Can he grow, adapt, bring his history of success and apply the template to a different team in a different league that is not guaranteed multiple 5 stars.      That is the only question that matters.    If he cannot, he will fail at Marquette.

I like this analysis. Might explain why so many of the long-time Duke assistants have struggled to succeed or had a longer learning curve. I think the next two years will be very telling. Wojo is certainly getting the players to succeed and starting to create a balanced roster in terms of classes and players. Can he piece it together with less talent? We'll see.

I'm always hopeful, but there are definitely some concerns. Watching inefficient guys like Reinhardt and Henry take the lion's share of shots was frustrating, but we also had early frustrations with Carlino (and Henry) before improvement during the season. The lack of defensive flexibility, especially after seeing a zone can work in 2014-15, is troubling. The hero ball is annoying, but it's still early in the season and we saw against Vandy the offense can work given movement and unselfishness.

Right now, the Georgia game looms huge. Win that and we control our own destiny. Lose that and we'll really need to pick it up come conference play.

[MarquetteDano]

IMO, Buzz game to MU far more ready to be a head coach than Wojo.    And not just because he had a year as the head coach at UNO.   IMO, the vagabond existence that Buzz had, the multiple coaches he mentored under, gave him a width and breadth of experience that Wojo doesn't have.    Buzz had run multiple systems and styles and recruited players to play in those styles.    He picked and chose what he wanted from the broad tapestry of basketball he had been exposed to.   He saw what worked and what failed. 
   Wojo only knows the Duke way.    He has never seen any style other than K's.   He has never had to work to put the talent together.   K did that, both at Duke and with the Olympic team.    You can argue that Wojo has worked with more talent, but as a head coach, that is a detriment.    Wojo has never before been part of failure.    And the sustained success was the result of somebody else's leadership.    Failure teaches different, deeper, more important lessons than success.

Reading this,  to which I agree,  I can only draw the conclusion that Wojo needs some veteran on the coaching bench with these varied experiences.  Instead,  he has a very young bench who haven't had the experiences and seen various styles.

[Goose]

I cannot say Buzz was better prepared to be HC at all. At the time I thought how in the world could they pick this guy. He might have had  more vagabond life, but far from prepared to be coach at MU IMO.

[79Warrior]

Reading this,  to which I agree,  I can only draw the conclusion that Wojo needs some veteran on the coaching bench with these varied experiences.  Instead,  he has a very young bench who haven't had the experiences and seen various styles.

Too many friends hired? Maybe a little less focus on the coaches pick up games? Who knows.

[tower912]

There was a word that kept escaping me as I wrote my last post.

 Adversity.   

 Buzz had plenty on his trip up the ladder.    Wojo didn't.   Learning to lead, adapt, handle, cope in the face of failed seasons, failed administrations, learning how to cobble together something out of nothing, bad grades, transfers.      When Duke has a bad year and fails to make the final 4, K went out and got some more 5 stars.     When things went sideways at the places Buzz coached......?     That is how Buzz made a team out of the midgets, how he coped with a team with Otule and Gardner both injured, how he was able to make teams that usually (not always) seemed to overachieve and be more than the sum of their parts.   

I haven't given up on Wojo, but I sure haven't seen the alchemy yet.   

Edit:   What is the complaint about the character of this team so far?     Just a thought.   If this group had gone through one of Buzz's bootcamps, had their bottle of sand upset, and had to learn to problem solve, would this be a better team?

[brewcity77]

I'll be honest...I think for so many reasons right now the problem is Reinhardt. The staff brought in a guy from outside and thus far he's taking the lion's share of the shots. He doesn't seem to have the system down as well as the others and when we start going Team Hero Ball, it starts with him.

There's aspects of his game that I like. He fights harder for the ball than I expected, he's fearless, he's a solid defender, but he needs to learn to do those things within the structure of the system. That's on the coaching staff to convey, and there's plenty of time to turn it around, but if he keeps taking a shot every two minutes, we will be in trouble.

And as I mentioned before, his addition drastically reduced our chances to get guys like LG Gill and Kalif Young that were better fits for what the roster needed. I sincerely hope he turns things around. If Katin can make an extra pass or two, some of those balls will come back to him in better position and he'll get his anyway. He just needs to play within the system. Quite a few guys do, but it starts with him.

[Herman Cain]

I'll be honest...I think for so many reasons right now the problem is Reinhardt. The staff brought in a guy from outside and thus far he's taking the lion's share of the shots. He doesn't seem to have the system down as well as the others and when we start going Team Hero Ball, it starts with him.

There's aspects of his game that I like. He fights harder for the ball than I expected, he's fearless, he's a solid defender, but he needs to learn to do those things within the structure of the system. That's on the coaching staff to convey, and there's plenty of time to turn it around, but if he keeps taking a shot every two minutes, we will be in trouble.

And as I mentioned before, his addition drastically reduced our chances to get guys like LG Gill and Kalif Young that were better fits for what the roster needed. I sincerely hope he turns things around. If Katin can make an extra pass or two, some of those balls will come back to him in better position and he'll get his anyway. He just needs to play within the system. Quite a few guys do, but it starts with him.

I agree with this analysis.

[keefe]

I don't agree with that in the least.  He was working at D1 schools, recruiting D1 athletes, within the bounds of the NCAA regulatory environment.  Much more relevant than a high level high school coach.

In his prime, Morgan Wootten likely had more in common with high major programs than any of the backwater programs where Bert cut his teeth.

Wootten had genuine working relationships with JT II, K, Lefty, Lou C, Boeheim, and many, many others. Hall of Fame coaches knew Wootten and made a point of seeing him when in the NCR. I rather doubt any of those same men had ever heard of that old guy Bert put on payroll at Marquette (the guy from Navarro College.)

Wootten had to recruit players to his program and played a schedule with national championship implications. His teams played in tournaments around the country against the very best.

It was Wootten's DeMatha team that ended Lew Alcindor's Power Memorial winning streak. Jabbar always said that the two greatest basketball minds he knew were John Wooden and Morgan Wootten. I think that speaks volumes.