Wojo

[Norm]

Wojo has done some things really well. He needs to get better at some others. That's quite a news flash.

MU82, can you elaborate on what things you think Wojo has done really well?

I will admit that I was not wild about his hiring at all. I even posted a blurb on MUSCOOP when he was hired that my friends and I were having some drinks a couple nights before and we all joked about MU hiring Wojo - and the Duke guys laughed the loudest.

Regardless, what is it you think he has done really well thus far? Recruiting? Outreach to the Marquette and Milwaukee community? Getting seats filled at the Bradley Center? Good interviews with the media? What exactly?

I ask as one who does not live in the Milwaukee area and only gets to about 2-3 games a year, usually when MU visits the East Coast.

[GGGG]

McCallum and Flint were hardly tacticians.  They were recruiters and that's about it.

Crews on the other hand...

[Herman Cain]

Thanks, TAMU, for playing defense for me while I've not been at my computer much.

I stand by everything I've written. I tend to be pragmatic and reasonable and, yes, optimistic. I don't do all-or-nothing very well, and I usually don't care for those who see things in that light or who state opinion as fact. And I certainly don't respect those who claim to be insiders when we know damn well they aren't.

Wojo has done some things really well. He needs to get better at some others. That's quite a news flash.

I like the poster (I already can't remember who - sorry) who said that Thurl Bailey has entrusted his son to Wojo. So have the Hausers.

Granted, Thurl might not know as much about basketball or about what makes a good coach as, say, a handful of anonymous dudes on the interwebs, but I'm willing to defer to him for at least a little bit.

As for questions why Wojo was an AC for double-digit years if he were head-coaching material, I don't know ... better ask Roy Williams the same question.

Having said all of that, I do understand some of our fan base is impatient and frustrated. I think the next year or so will go a long way toward determining if Wojo can be a success. Can he improve upon previous results in this, his third Big East season, one in which he has several good upperclassmen and a young nucleus of his own recruits? Can he follow it up by signing another big (or two) this spring and then a couple of studs next fall?

A year from now, we'll know so much more about the direction of our program under Wojo. If I really believe we're spinning our wheels (or, even worse, going backward), I will begrudgingly say so. Begrudgingly, because I'm rooting for Wojo to be a huge success.

I simply don't know how one can look at Wojo's body of work so far -- a losing season with an empty cupboard; a 20-win season with a few big wins that ultimately fell short of being "good"; a 2-2 record about an eighth of the way through Year 3; a few very good recruits and some good ones -- and conclude already that he is a failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtUVDG5M1w

Bailey is an excellent player. His father was Thurl Bailey who played in the NBA and on the national champion NC State team with Valvano. Stan recruited him for us. He is on a mission for his church doing good things.

[LAZER]

McCallum and Flint were hardly tacticians.  They were recruiters and that's about it.

Crews on the other hand...

Wonder if there's an Army/IU/Knight/Coach K connection with Crews?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I don't see Wojo shaking up his coaching staff at this point. Certainly not midseason. If he did bring on someone new, there are a number of experienced coaches not named Jerry Wainwright who might be interested:

Brian Gregory
49 years old. 248-180 (.579) head coaching record at Dayton and Georgia Tech. Former assistant to Tom Izzo at Michigan State.

Ray McCallum
55 years old. 300-281 (.516) head coaching record at Detroit, Houston and Ball State. Former assistant at Wisconsin, Michigan and Oklahoma.


Bruiser Flint
51 years old. 331-289 (.534) head coaching record at Drexel and UMass. Former assistant to John Calipari at UMass and Coppin State.

Jim Crews
62 years old. 431-404 (.516) head coaching record at St. Louis, Army and Evansville. Former assistant to Bob Knight at Indiana.

Rob Jeter
47 years old. 184-170 (.520) head coaching record at UW-Milwaukee. Former assist to Wisconsin and Marquette.

ABD?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Norm, your question got me thinking. I think most of the pro wojo folks would agree that what keeps us optimistic is steady improvement across the program.

Year 1 was the starting point. We managed 13 wins with a cobbled together roster.

Year 2 we saw a better product despite a ton of youth. We managed 20 wins and were a few buckets away from dancing (wins over depaul and Belmont likely would of done it). Not only that but I think most would agree that the team from the end of that season that beat Providence would have whooped the team that lost to Belmont.

You wouldn't know it from the attitude here, but year 3 is off to a better start than year 2. Compare the first four games:

Year 2: home loss to Belmont, OT win at home vs IUPUI, 28 point beating by Iowa at home, 1 point win over LSU on neutral court.
Year 3: 24 point beatdown of Vandy on neutral court, 32 point win over Howard, 18 point beating by Michigan on neutral court, and three point loss to Pitt on a neutral court.

I'm pretty sure everyone would take the start of year 3 over the start of year 2. I also believe that year 3 would wipe the floor with year two if they somehow had the ability to scrimmage.

So the steady improvement is what keeps me optimistic. Has there been enough improvement by this point? Debatable. By as long as we're trending up, I'm happy. Next year will be very telling as we will likely only have one buzz recruit left.

But then again, my phone did autocorrect "pro wojo folks" to "pro wojo fools" so maybe that's a sign.

[mu03eng]

Thanks, TAMU, for playing defense for me while I've not been at my computer much.

I stand by everything I've written. I tend to be pragmatic and reasonable and, yes, optimistic. I don't do all-or-nothing very well, and I usually don't care for those who see things in that light or who state opinion as fact. And I certainly don't respect those who claim to be insiders when we know damn well they aren't.

Wojo has done some things really well. He needs to get better at some others. That's quite a news flash.

I like the poster (I already can't remember who - sorry) who said that Thurl Bailey has entrusted his son to Wojo. So have the Hausers.

Granted, Thurl might not know as much about basketball or about what makes a good coach as, say, a handful of anonymous dudes on the interwebs, but I'm willing to defer to him for at least a little bit.

As for questions why Wojo was an AC for double-digit years if he were head-coaching material, I don't know ... better ask Roy Williams the same question.

Having said all of that, I do understand some of our fan base is impatient and frustrated. I think the next year or so will go a long way toward determining if Wojo can be a success. Can he improve upon previous results in this, his third Big East season, one in which he has several good upperclassmen and a young nucleus of his own recruits? Can he follow it up by signing another big (or two) this spring and then a couple of studs next fall?

A year from now, we'll know so much more about the direction of our program under Wojo. If I really believe we're spinning our wheels (or, even worse, going backward), I will begrudgingly say so. Begrudgingly, because I'm rooting for Wojo to be a huge success.

I simply don't know how one can look at Wojo's body of work so far -- a losing season with an empty cupboard; a 20-win season with a few big wins that ultimately fell short of being "good"; a 2-2 record about an eighth of the way through Year 3; a few very good recruits and some good ones -- and conclude already that he is a failure.

I do think we need to draw a distinction between those, like myself that are on the "concerned" list versus those that are out and out giving up on the Wojo era. I'm all for Wojo staying and don't want to start over again. I like Wojo a lot, but I'm very concerned at the trend lines around player deployment and in-game coaching. Those are core competencies that we need any head coach (and/or staff) to have, if Wojo doesn't....and we can't conclude that yet....I don't care about the other stuff, I don't want a coach who can't adjust and/or develop players.

So basically, I'm going to be watching closely this season to see how Wojo does on those metrics and if he doesn't pass the test I'm going to likely move to the darker camp.

It's like I got a super awesome pastrami sandwich but I'm not totally confident that the pastrami is free of listeria. (best analogy I could come up with).

[Lennys Tap]

I do think we need to draw a distinction between those, like myself that are on the "concerned" list versus those that are out and out giving up on the Wojo era. I'm all for Wojo staying and don't want to start over again. I like Wojo a lot, but I'm very concerned at the trend lines around player deployment and in-game coaching. Those are core competencies that we need any head coach (and/or staff) to have, if Wojo doesn't....and we can't conclude that yet....I don't care about the other stuff, I don't want a coach who can't adjust and/or develop players.

So basically, I'm going to be watching closely this season to see how Wojo does on those metrics and if he doesn't pass the test I'm going to likely move to the darker camp.

I think this is more "pragmatic and reasonable" than Mike's view. But perhaps that makes me unreasonable.

[Babybluejeans]

It's like I got a super awesome pastrami sandwich but I'm not totally confident that the pastrami is free of listeria. (best analogy I could come up with).

This is excellent.

[bilsu]

I have not done a lot of posting since Buzz left (partly because I left Milwaukee, but also because I was a huge Buzz fan) but here are a few thoughts.

1. I think the entire board can agree that making the NCAA tournament is the bar for a program in full rebuild mode. However I think we need to allow a coach 5 years to do so. As much as i loved Buzz, the "cupboard" was empty.

2. By the time Wojo was hired there was very little time for him to build his first recruiting class. And, now that Sandy has decided to transfer, his first recruiting class is non-existent.

3. Considering point 2, this technically only Wojo's 2nd full year. His style of player (i.e Haanif) is only a sophomore at best. All of our older players are either grad transfers, or Buzz's recruits that Don't really fit Wojo's system.

4. If your trying to re-build a program you need to pick a system and stick with it. Not saying I agree with the Man to Man defensive approach. However, if you switch to zone every season, players will never lean the system. Things may look bad now, but by the time Wojo's recruits are upperclassmen the hope is they understand their responsibilities and can execute (this is at least the idea on paper, we will see if it translates to real life)

5. Final point - We at least owe it to Wojo and the administration to allow a coach 5 years to rebuild a program. Let his recruits become seniors and then we will see what happens.

I generally agree with this and I like the hi IQ players Wojo is recruiting. However, the problem I have with this five year plan is I just cannot see year 4 being better than year 3. Of course it can be, but I just do not see how we effectively replace Fischer.

[Norm]

Norm, your question got me thinking. I think most of the pro wojo folks would agree that what keeps us optimistic is steady improvement across the program.

Year 1 was the starting point. We managed 13 wins with a cobbled together roster.

Year 2 we saw a better product despite a ton of youth. We managed 20 wins and were a few buckets away from dancing (wins over depaul and Belmont likely would of done it). Not only that but I think most would agree that the team from the end of that season that beat Providence would have whooped the team that lost to Belmont.

You wouldn't know it from the attitude here, but year 3 is off to a better start than year 2. Compare the first four games:

Year 2: home loss to Belmont, OT win at home vs IUPUI, 28 point beating by Iowa at home, 1 point win over LSU on neutral court.
Year 3: 24 point beatdown of Vandy on neutral court, 32 point win over Howard, 18 point beating by Michigan on neutral court, and three point loss to Pitt on a neutral court.

I'm pretty sure everyone would take the start of year 3 over the start of year 2. I also believe that year 3 would wipe the floor with year two if they somehow had the ability to scrimmage.

So the steady improvement is what keeps me optimistic. Has there been enough improvement by this point? Debatable. By as long as we're trending up, I'm happy. Next year will be very telling as we will likely only have one buzz recruit left.

But then again, my phone did autocorrect "pro wojo folks" to "pro wojo fools" so maybe that's a sign.

Thanks TAMU.

I agree they improved record wise from Year 1 to Year 2, but their non-conference schedule was so bad last year and so full of terrible cupcakes it was bound to get better.

I was at the Vanderbilt win at the Veterans Classic, and they did look good there, although that first half by Reinhardt was absolutely brutal. Unfortunately, he's had more half like that than his second half of that game. But as good as they looked against Vandy, they were as bad against Michigan and choked in the 2nd half against Pitt. Hopefully they beat IUPUI tonight in a comfortable fashion and do not have to resort to OT - or worse, actually lose the game.

I think I would buy in to the improving trend this year if they actually improve their record against the top half of the Big East. In the two years Wojo has been at MU, the teams record against the Big East is:

Butler 1-3
Creighton 2-2
DePaul 2-2
Georgetown 1-3
Providence 3-1
Seton Hall 2-3
St. John's 3-2
Villanova 0-5
Xavier 0-5

I do not expect Marquette to beat Villanova this year (in fact, MU is 0-7 against them in the New Big East), but if they can split against Xavier and finish at least 9-9 in conference, I'll agree they are improving. I just fear that the roster does not match up well this year against Xavier, Seton Hall, Butler and Creighton. All that coudl combine for another bottom half finish. Again, I would love to be wrong about that and see MU finish in the top half.

Outside of the overall record, how is Wojo doing reaching out to the MU and Milwaukee community? Does he have a good reputation around town, or is he pretty invisible except for game days? Does he try to get the students involved? In short, how is he as an ambassador for MU?

[jesmu84]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtUVDG5M1w

My god. No. It wasn't you.

The fact that Thurl Bailey, a college great and a guy who played 10 years in the NBA and averaged 12 points and 5 rebounds per game, is trusting Wojo to coach his son tells me that people who understand the game a lot better than anybody on MUScoop does trust that Wojo is a good enough coach to put his son's playing career in his hands.  Not to mention Sam Hauser, whose dad coaches and who clearly has been coached well up to this point.  If Bailey decommits, Sam transfers, and Joey Hauser immediately eliminates us from consideration, I'll be concerned about Wojo's ability to coach kids.

[4everwarriors]

I have not done a lot of posting since Buzz left (partly because I left Milwaukee, but also because I was a huge Buzz fan) but here are a few thoughts.

1. I think the entire board can agree that making the NCAA tournament is the bar for a program in full rebuild mode. However I think we need to allow a coach 5 years to do so. As much as i loved Buzz, the "cupboard" was empty.

2. By the time Wojo was hired there was very little time for him to build his first recruiting class. And, now that Sandy has decided to transfer, his first recruiting class is non-existent.

3. Considering point 2, this technically only Wojo's 2nd full year. His style of player (i.e Haanif) is only a sophomore at best. All of our older players are either grad transfers, or Buzz's recruits that Don't really fit Wojo's system.

4. If your trying to re-build a program you need to pick a system and stick with it. Not saying I agree with the Man to Man defensive approach. However, if you switch to zone every season, players will never lean the system. Things may look bad now, but by the time Wojo's recruits are upperclassmen the hope is they understand their responsibilities and can execute (this is at least the idea on paper, we will see if it translates to real life)

5. Final point - We at least owe it to Wojo and the administration to allow a coach 5 years to rebuild a program. Let his recruits become seniors and then we will see what happens.

So, you're Chicos too, hey?

[tower912]

Wojo's a genius.   Build a statue.    (There, how is that for hair trigger, short term idiocy?)

[goldeneagle91114]

So, you're Chicos too, hey?

I wouldn't go that far haha! Trust after the trip to NYC i felt like we were going to be the next DePaul, and we still could be if wojo doesn't get his sh*t together. But i think it takes a few years to build a tournament team, especially when you have to start from scratch and have a different style compared to the previous coach.

[GWSwarrior]

Thanks TAMU.

I agree they improved record wise from Year 1 to Year 2, but their non-conference schedule was so bad last year and so full of terrible cupcakes it was bound to get better.

I was at the Vanderbilt win at the Veterans Classic, and they did look good there, although that first half by Reinhardt was absolutely brutal. Unfortunately, he's had more half like that than his second half of that game. But as good as they looked against Vandy, they were as bad against Michigan and choked in the 2nd half against Pitt. Hopefully they beat IUPUI tonight in a comfortable fashion and do not have to resort to OT - or worse, actually lose the game.

I think I would buy in to the improving trend this year if they actually improve their record against the top half of the Big East. In the two years Wojo has been at MU, the teams record against the Big East is:

Butler 1-3
Creighton 2-2
DePaul 2-2
Georgetown 1-3
Providence 3-1
Seton Hall 2-3
St. John's 3-2
Villanova 0-5
Xavier 0-5

I do not expect Marquette to beat Villanova this year (in fact, MU is 0-7 against them in the New Big East), but if they can split against Xavier and finish at least 9-9 in conference, I'll agree they are improving. I just fear that the roster does not match up well this year against Xavier, Seton Hall, Butler and Creighton. All that coudl combine for another bottom half finish. Again, I would love to be wrong about that and see MU finish in the top half.

Outside of the overall record, how is Wojo doing reaching out to the MU and Milwaukee community? Does he have a good reputation around town, or is he pretty invisible except for game days? Does he try to get the students involved? In short, how is he as an ambassador for MU?

Fear makes you dumb. Don't give into the fear just enjoy basketball

[Newsdreams]

Atl MU

I don't do teal because I am old man. The eye witness evidence was more tongue in cheek. You might think I am old guy that knows nothing (you may be right), but I have been around the block with MU ball on fairly personal level my entire life and my comments/beliefs are seldom made by knee jerk reactions.

I recently met with a member of MU admin and offered my thoughts on the university and the basketball program. While many of my comments were negative, I noted time and time again that these negative comments were coming from someone who LOVES Marquette University. For 50 of my my 53 years on this planet I have had a family member working at MU or going to school at MU. I can assure you that nobody (tie with everyone else on here) wants to see MU succeed across the board than I do.

You and I had our debates regarding the direction I feared MU ball was going years ago and that was fine. You can dismiss all of my comments and no hard feelings.

Golden Avalanche

Spoiled brats or someone who would love to see MU be the best it can be all aspects?

53 and you are an old man? I'm 55 and don't consider myself to be an old man.

[Newsdreams]

My understanding is that Jerry was there for Buzz. Not sure how much interest he had in staying.

I thought he quit, but was asked to stay until new coaching staff came in.

[jesmu84]

I thought he quit, but was asked to stay until new coaching staff came in.

I remember someone writing a post that painted quite the picture of a sad Jerry walking office to office, alone, turning off all the lights

[MU82]

I think this is more "pragmatic and reasonable" than Mike's view. But perhaps that makes me unreasonable.

I don't think my view and mu03's view are opposites at all. A lot of overlap there. We all can be reasonable and have somewhat different viewpoints.

[MU82]

MU82, can you elaborate on what things you think Wojo has done really well?

I will admit that I was not wild about his hiring at all. I even posted a blurb on MUSCOOP when he was hired that my friends and I were having some drinks a couple nights before and we all joked about MU hiring Wojo - and the Duke guys laughed the loudest.

Regardless, what is it you think he has done really well thus far? Recruiting? Outreach to the Marquette and Milwaukee community? Getting seats filled at the Bradley Center? Good interviews with the media? What exactly?

I ask as one who does not live in the Milwaukee area and only gets to about 2-3 games a year, usually when MU visits the East Coast.

Norm, I don't live anywhere near Milwaukee. I get my info on MU hoops from reading stuff here, reading Matt's stuff in the JS and, of course, from watching games. Although I love MU hoops, I consider myself quite capable of doing objective analysis.

I think Wojo has been a very good recruiter. He seems quite good at selling the program to kids' parents.

I happen to think he's been a pretty good motivator. For example, some here made fun of Wojo taking away the team warmups last season ... but the team did respond after that. Had Al done it and achieved similar results, we'd still be talking about it as a legendary move. Even tonight's game against IUPUI after the tough loss to Pitt ... the Warriors were extremely active and aggressive; Wojo deserves at least a little credit for that, no?

I think his game coaching is a work in progress. As has been pointed out by others, he is getting better at designing plays out of time-outs but he maybe he's still a little slow sometimes at making strategic changes.

When I or somebody else points out that Al and Jay Wright and Coach K and countless other outstanding coaches were struggling just as much at this stage of their careers, we get told by impatient, frustrated or less-optimistic Scoopers that such comparisons are irrelevant or nonsensical. But it's OK to compare Wojo to whom? Buzz? Cal? Shaka?

It's obviously only my opinion, but I see no reason to change my stance that Wojo has shown to be good at some things while needing to improve at some others.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think my view and mu03's view are opposites at all. A lot of overlap there. We all can be reasonable and have somewhat different viewpoints.

I agree they're not opposites. And imo they're both reasonable. I think there are a lot of reasonable (and different) opinions on Wojo and the state of the MU basketball program. I thought that when you declared yourself the pragmatic and reasonable spokesman (along with TAMU) you were implying those who saw it differently were neither pragmatic nor reasonable. If I misinterpreted my apologies.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree they're not opposites. And imo they're both reasonable. I think there are a lot of reasonable (and different) opinions on Wojo and the state of the MU basketball program. I thought that when you declared yourself the pragmatic and reasonable spokesman (along with TAMU) you were implying those who saw it differently were neither pragmatic nor reasonable. If I misinterpreted my apologies.

For me its not about having a different opinion. Its about declaring that opinion as fact. I would take issue with someone who shared the same opinion as me but acted like it was a fact with no room for other opinions (see wades "HE gowne").

[wadesworld]

For me its not about having a different opinion. Its about declaring that opinion as fact. I would take issue with someone who shared the same opinion as me but acted like it was a fact with no room for other opinions (see wades "HE gowne").

That was a fact from day 1, there was no opinion about it.  So bad example.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That was a fact from day 1, there was no opinion about it.  So bad example.

Really wasn't. I'm not re having that argument.