World Serious Thread

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Can't speak for all Cardinals fans. We just expect excellence.

No lovable losers here.

I get the feeling your expectations are going to be strongly tested in the upcoming years. 

[dgies9156]

I get the feeling your expectations are going to be strongly tested in the upcoming years.

The Cardinals have an excellent talent base in their minor league system now. It's particularly strong with pitching.

There are two needs that separate the Cardinals from the Cubs. The first is a lead-off .300 hitter with speed who can play outfield and manufacture a run. The second is a middle infielder who can be the second coming of Ozzie. The biggest problem the Cardinals had last year was erratic infield play, which must be addressed in 2017.

Finally, they have to build a team that can win at Busch Stadium. If the Cardinals had the same record at home as they did away from Busch, the Cardinals and Cubs would have been locked in a season-long battle for the Division lead. The team may not be suited for the playing environment (heavy air, pitching focused, manufactured run games) that prevails at Busch. That's on management to fix.

We shall see, but the Cardinal record during the last 25 years speaks for itself!

[robmufan]

Finally, they have to build a team that can win at Busch Stadium. If the Cardinals had the same record at home as they did away from Busch, the Cardinals and Cubs would have been locked in a season-long battle for the Division lead.

This is the most absurd thing I have read all day! They finished 17.5 games behind the Cubs. I might have given this to you if you were 8 games behind, but that wasn't the case.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The Cardinals have an excellent talent base in their minor league system now. It's particularly strong with pitching.

There are two needs that separate the Cardinals from the Cubs. The first is a lead-off .300 hitter with speed who can play outfield and manufacture a run. The second is a middle infielder who can be the second coming of Ozzie. The biggest problem the Cardinals had last year was erratic infield play, which must be addressed in 2017.

Finally, they have to build a team that can win at Busch Stadium. If the Cardinals had the same record at home as they did away from Busch, the Cardinals and Cubs would have been locked in a season-long battle for the Division lead. The team may not be suited for the playing environment (heavy air, pitching focused, manufactured run games) that prevails at Busch. That's on management to fix.

We shall see, but the Cardinal record during the last 25 years speaks for itself!

We can agree to disagree that there are two needs that separate the teams.  And the Cardinals do appear to have some nice young pitching. 

In terms of the lineup I see a lot of pieces that just don't fit and/or are declining.  The Cardinals have had an excellent run but that really doesn't mean anything. 

17.5 games.  That's all. 

[WI inferiority Complexes]

The Minnesota Twins, for example, would kill for an 86 win season no matter where they stood in the standings.

The Twins have won 86 games in 7 of the past 14 seasons.  That's a lot of killing.

[muwarrior69]

Just send the Championship trophy to the Bronx. We all know the Yankees are the best team in baseball.

[buckchuckler]

Check out Baseball's Best Fans (@BestFansStLouis): https://twitter.com/BestFansStLouis?s=09

http://nypost.com/2016/10/23/f-king-classy-cubs-fans-threw-beer-at-dodgers-families-pitcher/

Everyfan base has idiots.  The Cubs are no exception.  Nor are the Cards.  Nor are the White Sox.  The Cubs just have far more bandwagoners that make actual fans look worse. 

[buckchuckler]

This should be a great series.  I love how the teams arrived.  One anointed from Spring Training, the other clawing through the season. 

The Indians have dealt with Boston (7 .300 hitters, best offense in baseball), Toronto (great offense) and now the Cubs (best offense in NL).  Throw in the fact that their 2 of their best 3 starting pitchers are on the shelf and not to mention their best hitter played, 11 games, wow.  Just a great job.  What a testament to the importance of a manager.  Plenty of people want to discount the importance of good managers, but it is no accident that this is Tito's 3rd WS and Maddon's 2nd. 

Now the Cubs have to deal with a multifaceted offense that was 2nd in the AL in runs.  Should be interesting.  I know I am curious to see if Cleveland actually takes advantage of Lester's yips. I'm not certain, but I think the Tribe led the AL in stolen bags. 

Then there is the added Francona v Theo, and the Miller v Chapman angle as well.

Should be fun.  I'd be surprised if it didn't go at least 6.

Go Tribe.  Obviously. 

[buckchuckler]

Just send the Championship trophy to the Bronx. We all know the Yankees are the best team in baseball.

Why is this in teal?  Over any span of time that is completely, obviously and objectively true.  By pretty much any measure you want to use.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

This should be a great series.  I love how the teams arrived.  One anointed from Spring Training, the other clawing through the season. 

The Indians have dealt with Boston (7 .300 hitters, best offense in baseball), Toronto (great offense) and now the Cubs (best offense in NL).  Throw in the fact that their 2 of their best 3 starting pitchers are on the shelf and not to mention their best hitter played, 11 games, wow.  Just a great job.  What a testament to the importance of a manager.  Plenty of people want to discount the importance of good managers, but it is no accident that this is Tito's 3rd WS and Maddon's 2nd. 

Now the Cubs have to deal with a multifaceted offense that was 2nd in the AL in runs.  Should be interesting.  I know I am curious to see if Cleveland actually takes advantage of Lester's yips. I'm not certain, but I think the Tribe led the AL in stolen bags. 

Then there is the added Francona v Theo, and the Miller v Chapman angle as well.

Should be fun.  I'd be surprised if it didn't go at least 6.

Go Tribe.  Obviously.

This cracks me up.  Thought you would enjoy it. 

[dgies9156]

This is the most absurd thing I have read all day! They finished 17.5 games behind the Cubs. I might have given this to you if you were 8 games behind, but that wasn't the case.

I had forgotten how hot the Cubs got at the end. Nonetheless, the Cardinals were 48-33 on the road, which was the best road record in baseball. Teams generally are a few games better at home than on the road, so 50-31 would get them within hailing range of the Chicago Cubs. By contrast the Cardinals were 38-43 at home, which is the reason they were not in the playoffs this year. Plus, some of those home losses were to the Cubs, so it is not totally absurd to think as I do that a comparable home and road record would make them competitive for the Division Title.

The disparity was so big that it could have made a HUGE difference from a statistical standpoint and you never know.

[Coleman]

This St. Louis Cardinals fan is cheering for a quick end to the World Series, a Cleveland Indians sweep and hope that the Cardinals get their act together this winter so that the Cubs resume their rightful post season place in front of their television sets.

The baseball post-season and Aaron Rodgers offensive woes is making me long more than ever for Marquette season to start!

At least Ohio State lost last night and Notre Dame sucks this year!

This Cardinals fan is rooting for the Northsiders in Blue. It is time. If you are a sports fan, how can you not root for a team trying to end a 108 year drought? Think of all the old timers who have lived their whole life waiting for this.

I want to see a real rivalry a la Red Sox and Yankees. This could be the best rivalry in sports if they both are good.

I don't also subscribe to the logic that if you love team X you must hate team Y.

And finally, there is no need to defend our team, so why bother? The 11 World Series rings speak for themselves.

[buckchuckler]

This cracks me up.  Thought you would enjoy it. 

Just perfect.   There has been quite a bit of that going on.  And people wonder why sox fans hate the cubs.  The Sox have been to the WS twice since the Cubs were last there.  I have heard that completely disregarded like 20 times in the last 3 days.

[MerrittsMustache]

I had forgotten how hot the Cubs got at the end. Nonetheless, the Cardinals were 48-33 on the road, which was the best road record in baseball. Teams generally are a few games better at home than on the road, so 50-31 would get them within hailing range of the Chicago Cubs. By contrast the Cardinals were 38-43 at home, which is the reason they were not in the playoffs this year. Plus, some of those home losses were to the Cubs, so it is not totally absurd to think as I do that a comparable home and road record would make them competitive for the Division Title.

The disparity was so big that it could have made a HUGE difference from a statistical standpoint and you never know.

In other words, if the Cardinals were a better team, they would have been closer to the Cubs in the standings and more likely to make the postseason. Solid argument.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Just perfect.   There has been quite a bit of that going on.  And people wonder why sox fans hate the cubs.  The Sox have been to the WS twice since the Cubs were last there.  I have heard that completely disregarded like 20 times in the last 3 days.

ESPN claims it didn't happen in 2005 so that must be true.  Sorry. 

[dgies9156]

This Cardinals fan is rooting for the Northsiders in Blue. It is time. If you are a sports fan, how can you not root for a team trying to end a 108 year drought? Think of all the old timers who have lived their whole life waiting for this.

I want to see a real rivalry a la Red Sox and Yankees. This could be the best rivalry in sports if they both are good.

I don't also subscribe to the logic that if you love team X you must hate team Y.

And finally, there is no need to defend our team, so why bother? The 11 World Series rings speak for themselves.

I don't hate the Cubs. I'm almost as loyal to my Cardinals as I am to my Warriors.

We already have the best rivalry in baseball with the Cubs. Always has been, Always will be. Biggest difference between the Cardinal/Cub and Red Sox/Yankees is we don't have the national media covering all 18 games we play with the first team announcers who think each game is more important than the World Series.

And, unlike Yankee/Red Sox, where the lines are pretty demarcated (New England versus New York Metro), once you get south of Interstate 80 in Illinois, we live together! Same for much of Eastern Iowa. South of Interstate 80, more red. North of Interstate 80, more blue.

[wadesworld]

I don't hate the Cubs. I'm almost as loyal to my Cardinals as I am to my Warriors.

We already have the best rivalry in baseball with the Cubs. Always has been, Always will be. Biggest difference between the Cardinal/Cub and Red Sox/Yankees is we don't have the national media covering all 18 games we play with the first team announcers who think each game is more important than the World Series.

And, unlike Yankee/Red Sox, where the lines are pretty demarcated (New England versus New York Metro), once you get south of Interstate 80 in Illinois, we live together! Same for much of Eastern Iowa. South of Interstate 80, more red. North of Interstate 80, more blue.

That's like saying Louisville/Kentucky is as good of a rivalry as Duke/North Carolina.

[Coleman]

I don't hate the Cubs. I'm almost as loyal to my Cardinals as I am to my Warriors.

We already have the best rivalry in baseball with the Cubs. Always has been, Always will be. Biggest difference between the Cardinal/Cub and Red Sox/Yankees is we don't have the national media covering all 18 games we play with the first team announcers who think each game is more important than the World Series.

And, unlike Yankee/Red Sox, where the lines are pretty demarcated (New England versus New York Metro), once you get south of Interstate 80 in Illinois, we live together! Same for much of Eastern Iowa. South of Interstate 80, more red. North of Interstate 80, more blue.

It has the potential to be the best rivalry in sports. Right now, its not. Both teams need to be competitive year in and year out. I'd love to see both teams be really good most years, with the Cardinals obviously winning more often than not.

But if we're not in it this year, might as well hope the Cubs finally get one.

[muwarrior69]

It has the potential to be the best rivalry in sports. Right now, its not. Both teams need to be competitive year in and year out. I'd love to see both teams be really good most years, with the Cardinals obviously winning more often than not.

But if we're not in it this year, might as well hope the Cubs finally get one.

The best rivalry in baseball is no longer though some on the west coast may disagree; it was by far the New York Giants vs. the Brooklyn Dodgers. When Jackie Robinson was traded to the Giants he retired from baseball rather than play for them giving up a 60k salary offer.

[GGGG]

The best rivalry in baseball is no longer though some on the west coast may disagree; it was by far the New York Giants vs. the Brooklyn Dodgers. When Jackie Robinson was traded to the Giants he retired from baseball rather than play for them giving up a 60k salary offer.

He had made the decision to retire before the trade.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2003372//

"In 1956, Robinson was traded to the archrival New York Giants. Though that event is often related as the impetus for the end of Robinson's career, it's only part of the story. At the time, Robinson had already agreed with William H. Black, the president of Chock Full o' Nuts, to quit for a top administrative position in the coffee company. The late Walter O'Malley gave him plenty of cover."

[dgies9156]

He had made the decision to retire before the trade.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2003372//

"In 1956, Robinson was traded to the archrival New York Giants. Though that event is often related as the impetus for the end of Robinson's career, it's only part of the story. At the time, Robinson had already agreed with William H. Black, the president of Chock Full o' Nuts, to quit for a top administrative position in the coffee company. The late Walter O'Malley gave him plenty of cover."

And, his baseball skills had deteriorated substantially. It was too bad he did not get the retirement send-off he deserved.

The relationship between Messrs. Robinson and O'Malley was strained for years thereafter for a variety of reasons.

[dgies9156]

That's like saying Louisville/Kentucky is as good of a rivalry as Duke/North Carolina.

I suspect in the State of Kentucky, they might think Louisville and Kentucky is a better rivalry than Duke and UNC. The biggest difference is that Louisville and Kentucky are in different conferences and it took an act of the Kentucky legislature to get them to play.

That said, the intensity of the rivalry in college basketball is a function of your ratings, your fan strength and whether two universities are recruiting the same players.

[wadesworld]

Lol @ Contreras. 1) you're down 6-rip. 2) you didn't even hit it out of the park.

[Lennys Tap]

I suspect in the State of Kentucky, they might think Louisville and Kentucky is a better rivalry than Duke and UNC.

And it would be yet another in a long string of things people in Kentucky are or have been wrong about.

[wadesworld]

I suspect in the State of Kentucky, they might think Louisville and Kentucky is a better rivalry than Duke and UNC. The biggest difference is that Louisville and Kentucky are in different conferences and it took an act of the Kentucky legislature to get them to play.

That said, the intensity of the rivalry in college basketball is a function of your ratings, your fan strength and whether two universities are recruiting the same players.

People in Kentucky might think that, but nobody else in the country does, and rightfully so. Just like, apparently, St. Louis people (and maybe Chicago people) are the only people who think their rivalry with the Cubs is the best rivalry in baseball.