HEllenson to the D-league

[martyconlonontherun]

But it is still Grand Rapids playing in front of high school type crowds (if that) and their facilities are inferior to MU.  None of the away games are in major cities. 

So unless the Ellenson family is desperately homeless and living on assistance, another year at MU would have been preferable.  The money would be there in a year.

The only winner is Jay-Z.

I guess I don't get your point. So playing in front of a ton of sweater vests is better than playing against better talent in a high school gym? Even if he spends a month in the dleague, he will have spent all camp and most of the season in the NBA and those teams have way better resources than Marquette. They have better coaches, better trainer and better facilities.

[Pakuni]

I guess I don't get your point. So playing in front of a ton of sweater vests for free is better than playing against better talent in a high school gym for $1.7 million?

FTFY

[tower912]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/summer-rewind-detroit-pistons-000000928.html

$1.7 million to not go to class, to work on his game and his body, be it in Detroit or GR.   HE'll be fine. 

[axaguy]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

[wadesworld]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

Yeah, people are usually in the top 0.000001% of the world population in what they do by not working hard to develop and having no will to get better.

[Badgerhater]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

Definitely the other end of the expectation extreme, but one that is quite possible and I would not be surprised to see.

[dgies9156]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

Honestly, from 50,000 feet, this is the best assessment of HE I've read in here. I hope you're wrong and this kid has a stellar DWade-type career. It would be good for the university if he did. But...

I saw a lot of the same thing you did last year. I saw a young man adapting to a very different game than what he undoubtedly saw before coming to Marquette. At times he was brilliant but too often, he forgot he was no longer at Rice Lake High or in the Nike/Adidas/etc summer leagues. If he finds what he needs on the end of NBA bench for the next three years, OK, he was better off than at Marquette.

But I still maintain the value of a Marquette education, especially once the NBA career ends, is much greater than is being estimated in here. I'm not sure the money compensates for the fact that HE does not appear ready for the NBA.

Have at me......

[GGGG]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

I don't necessarily have a problem with the prediction, but the bolded statements.  How do you know what his work ethic and drive are?  He's 19 years old.  He may not fully understand what he needs to do to succeed, but did any of us at his age?

[avid1010]

i questioned his NBA readiness last year a few times, while also noting that NBA scouts obviously know more and saw something that i wasn't.  i think the fact that he slid so far in the draft is telling, but i also think his size and skill-set is unique.  the telling part for me is that when someone with his size and skill-set slides so far in the draft, teams aren't seeing enough potential to justify the risk/reward.  the question that always worried me with HE was, "who can he guard and can he get to the rim?"

[brandx]

So now it is the concensus that Henry is lazy? Scoop can be quite laughable at times.

I would hazard a guess that nary a single one of our experts has ever been in the gym when Henry works out or has even seen him work out. But because you are Scoopers, you just know things.

[Pakuni]

So, Henry's already getting the Vander treatment around here, huh?

[Spotcheck Billy]

So now it is the concensus that Henry is lazy?

Well he did only get the easy rebounds

[Golden Avalanche]

So, Henry's already getting the Vander treatment around here, huh?

There is an insatiable hunger to eat our young.

[Folks,,,]

I don't necessarily have a problem with the prediction, but the bolded statements.  How do you know what his work ethic and drive are?  He's 19 years old.  He may not fully understand what he needs to do to succeed, but did any of us at his age?

He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them.  From there he makes assumptions that, perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought.  No need to run to the player's defense at all times.

Also, its laughable that "he would improve more with more time at Marquette and not the NBA" thought exists. Players will improve when basketball is full time and being around the best players, coaches, facilities, treatments, etc. in the world.  Those who think that way are just wishing he would have stayed around longer to make Marquette a better team next year. Stop being selfish and let the kid do what literally everyone else on this board would do given the same opportunity.

[Pakuni]

He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them.  From there he makes assumptions that, perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought.  No need to run to the player's defense at all times.

How did Henry's talent level get to the point it is without him working at it?
I mean, he was hardly the only tall kid in the NCAA last year. What made him stand out above the vast majority of those other tall kids was the result of something other than him working at his game?

[GGGG]

He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them.  From there he makes assumptions that, perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought.  No need to run to the player's defense at all times.

I will run to the player's defense when the OP implies multiple times that he isn't a hard worker without any evidence.

Also, its laughable that "he would improve more with more time at Marquette and not the NBA" thought exists. Players will improve when basketball is full time and being around the best players, coaches, facilities, treatments, etc. in the world.  Those who think that way are just wishing he would have stayed around longer to make Marquette a better team next year. Stop being selfish and let the kid do what literally everyone else on this board would do given the same opportunity.

I agree with that.

[Folks,,,]

I will run to the player's defense when the OP implies multiple times that he isn't a hard worker without any evidence.

How did Henry's talent level get to the point it is without him working at it?
I mean, he was hardly the only tall kid in the NCAA last year. What made him stand out above the vast majority of those other tall kids was the result of something other than him working at his game?

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point.  He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.

If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....

[wadesworld]

I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point.  He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.

If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....

But there is nothing to say that Hank only has 6 cookies.  And I doubt many were looking at Jimmy after the draft (where Jimmy was also 3 years older than where Hank is now) saying, "This guy works so hard that he's a sure fire bet to be premier wing in the NBA."  When Jimmy was Hank's age all MUScoop knew about him was that he was a tag along for the real prize that MU was getting in Joe Fulce.  Maybe at Hank's age Jimmy had the natural ability that we now see but was lazy and didn't put in the work.  Who knows?  Hank's got 3 years of NBA time to get to whatever perceived superior work ethic people think Jimmy had going into the NBA after his senior year.

Hank didn't just wake up one day and have a basketball skillset that made him one of the top 500 basketball players in a world of 7.4 billion people.  I'm fairly confident in saying that he had to work pretty dang hard to get where he is.

[avid1010]

i would think the scouts didn't see laziness issues, but rather they saw issues with him being a pretty finished talent where the potential isn't as great is with some better athletes.

[Folks,,,]

But there is nothing to say that Hank only has 6 cookies. And I doubt many were looking at Jimmy after the draft saying, "This guy works so hard that he's a sure fire bet to be premier wing in the NBA."

Hank didn't just wake up one day and have a basketball skillset that made him one of the top 500 basketball players in a world of 7.4 billion people.  I'm fairly confident in saying that he had to work pretty dang hard to get where he is.

On Butler...that's the point...he wasn't supposed to be a premier wing but he worked his ass off and transformed into one.

He is simply offering his opinion on why he thinks Ellenson won't be an NBA star. He was drafted high enough because of his potential to become an elite NBA player...but OP is saying he doesn't believe he will reach that potential (and that's okay, it won't shouldn't affect your life).

Also...there are only 450 players on NBA rosters at a time so Ellenson could be in the top 500 players in the world and not even be on an NBA roster. 

I'm going to crawl back into my hole now... 

[GGGG]

I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point.  He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.

If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....

No I understand his point.  However to take your analogy further, he only said he hasn't heard *if* Ellenson has ten cookies.  In reality, he has no idea how many cookies Ellenson has.

[RJax55]

He is simply offering his opinion on why he thinks Ellenson won't be an NBA star. He was drafted high enough because of his potential to become an elite NBA player...but OP is saying he doesn't believe he will reach that potential (and that's okay, it won't shouldn't affect your life).

Not really. HE was the 18th pick. In the NBA draft, no smart GM is banking on the 18th pick having the chance to be an elite/all-star player.

Here's a list of past 18th picks: http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/18th-overall/180509/

While you have some nice players, only Joe Dumars became a consistent All-Star level player. Last year, Sam Dekker was the 18th pick. Did anyone on Scoop think Sam was going to be an All-Star player?

[martyconlonontherun]

Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.

Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."

Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.

His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......

Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......

Have at it........................

Again not understanding the end goal. You don't think he developed at all so you are suggesting he stick around two more years? If he's a dleague caliber guy his whole career why wouldn't he cash in now as a guaranteed three year contract?

On the flip side, you said 1.7m is chump change. It really is but the only way to get real money is to enter early and play out the rookie contract. Sticking around two years for free just mean your chump change years are more in your prime (if he develops at Marquette which you said he hasn't.)

[martyconlonontherun]

Honestly, from 50,000 feet, this is the best assessment of HE I've read in here. I hope you're wrong and this kid has a stellar DWade-type career. It would be good for the university if he did. But...

I saw a lot of the same thing you did last year. I saw a young man adapting to a very different game than what he undoubtedly saw before coming to Marquette. At times he was brilliant but too often, he forgot he was no longer at Rice Lake High or in the Nike/Adidas/etc summer leagues. If he finds what he needs on the end of NBA bench for the next three years, OK, he was better off than at Marquette.

But I still maintain the value of a Marquette education, especially once the NBA career ends, is much greater than is being estimated in here. I'm not sure the money compensates for the fact that HE does not appear ready for the NBA.

Have at me......

You do realize that he can come back and graduate from Marquette right? After three years in the NBA, I think he can afford private tuition. Then again, he comes back and tears an acl I'm sure his Marquette tuition will more than cover the $5 million in guaranteed money he is getting from the Pistons.

[Class71]

HE is one of the best big men MU has had for many years. On that I think we can agree. Now the question is will HE be an impact player some day in the NBA? I wish him all the best but impact player, I do not think so. Will he make several million, sure, so in that sense many would agree he is a success but only HE can make that judgement.