Milwaukee Shootings

[wadesworld]

That fact was not public information until today.  Also, the public has learned more about what a POS the "victim" was, including the fact that he was facing witness intimidation charges in connection with a murder he was charged with - a charge that was dismissed after the witnesses recanted.

I think the sense of outrage in the community may be a little reduced tonight.

Have those kinds of facts ever mattered in these kinds of riots. Once again, I would say the answer to that question is, "No."

[brewcity77]

Have those kinds of facts ever mattered in these kinds of riots. Once again, I would say the answer to that question is, "No."

If anything helps tonight, it will be the city being better prepared for it. Last night it escalated over a few hours. Today they have been planning preventative measures the entire day.

[wadesworld]

If anything helps tonight, it will be the city being better prepared for it. Last night it escalated over a few hours. Today they have been planning preventative measures the entire day.

Agreed.  And hopefully some of the people who were out in the crowd last night have had some positive influences in their ear over the past 24 hours telling them to stay out of trouble tonight.

[mu_hilltopper]

My reaction last night was .. welp, it's just Milwaukee's time.  I mean, statistics tend to show MKE has huge issues with poverty, disparity, segregation, showing the city is one of the worst places to be an African-American in the US.   We're due for "unrest."

Reaction today?  Really, far above expectations.  Prayer circles, community gatherings, volunteers cleaning up the streets, pastors preaching to decent crowds .. and the "big crowd" protesting right now near a police station is about 50 people, at the moment, without incident besides blocking an intersection.

With other big cities "unrest" incidents in mind .. MKE is currently dealing with it unbelievably well.  (Admittedly the circumstances are different, but still..)

[wadesworld]

Is there any truth to the story of people shooting at District 7's police station causing them to board up the windows?

In regards to Marquette, it sounds like there is a "large police presence" on 8th and Wisconsin.

Also, does anybody think there will be an issue commuting down Capitol (heading east to work from Tosa to Glendale around 7:15 AM and heading east back home around 5:00 PM) tomorrow?

[brewcity77]

Is there any truth to the story of people shooting at District 7's police station causing them to board up the windows?

In regards to Marquette, it sounds like there is a "large police presence" on 8th and Wisconsin.

Also, does anybody think there will be an issue commuting down Capitol (heading east to work from Tosa to Glendale around 7:15 AM and heading east back home around 5:00 PM) tomorrow?

I'd check the news before you leave. So far it's been a night and day difference from last night. The morning should be fine, unless there's a rash of events directly along Capitol tonight. In the evening it's more likely that people will be up and around. There wasn't much going on that far north yesterday, so I doubt it would tomorrow and Capitol is usually pretty well patrolled, but if there's anything going on along Capitol tomorrow evening, maybe consider an alternate like Silver Spring.

[wadesworld]

I'd check the news before you leave. So far it's been a night and day difference from last night. The morning should be fine, unless there's a rash of events directly along Capitol tonight. In the evening it's more likely that people will be up and around. There wasn't much going on that far north yesterday, so I doubt it would tomorrow and Capitol is usually pretty well patrolled, but if there's anything going on along Capitol tomorrow evening, maybe consider an alternate like Silver Spring.

Yeah I was thinking Silver Spring as a backup option as well. Hampton is a pretty narrow 2 lanes and seems to have more people out along it than Capitol, so if something were to go on on Capiton then Hampton would probably get hit as well.

Thanks, hoping all areas are safe and clear. Glad things are better tonight.

[brewcity77]

Yeah I was thinking Silver Spring as a backup option as well. Hampton is a pretty narrow 2 lanes and seems to have more people out along it than Capitol, so if something were to go on on Capiton then Hampton would probably get hit as well.

Thanks, hoping all areas are safe and clear. Glad things are better tonight.

Fire in an auto parts store at 72nd and Capitol. Starting to get a bit more active out there. Might want to use that Silver Spring backup route tomorrow. I'd also avoid Hampton. Narrower road and not quite as developed as Silver Spring.

[real chili 83]

Just read a really good article in the JS.  Very balanced.  Showed diverse points of view from the affected community that range from...we should all take up arms, to its our fault because this generation is unparented. 

I was surprised the JS would show that diversity of opinions from the affected neighborhood.  The twin cities press was not nearly as transparent with similar issues earlier this summer. 

Milwaukee needs to be prepared for the agitators that will come from out of town to stir the pot.  That's what is next most likely.  The strong voices quoted in the article who advocate for calm and accountability will need to ask the out of town agitators to go home. 

[Benny B]

Just read a really good article in the JS.  Very balanced.  Showed diverse points of view from the affected community that range from...we should all take up arms, to its our fault because this generation is unparented. 

I was surprised the JS would show that diversity of opinions from the affected neighborhood.  The twin cities press was not nearly as transparent with similar issues earlier this summer. 

Milwaukee needs to be prepared for the agitators that will come from out of town to stir the pot.  That's what is next most likely.  The strong voices quoted in the article who advocate for calm and accountability will need to ask the out of town agitators to go home.

Well... they won't be out-of-towners as soon as they take up a permanent residence in the county lockup. 

Fortunately (for the troublemakers), this has been almost entirely an MPD issue thus far.  If the county has to get involved, game over.

[GGGG]

Well... they won't be out-of-towners as soon as they take up a permanent residence in the county lockup. 

Fortunately (for the troublemakers), this has been almost entirely an MPD issue thus far.  If the county has to get involved, game over.

Why what's the County going to do?

[warriorchick]

This went out today from the MUPD chief of police:

Dear parents,

Whether you live in the Milwaukee area or outside of our region, many of you likely heard of the civil unrest this past weekend, following a Milwaukee Police Department (MPD) shooting of an armed suspect on the north side. I want to assure you that our officers have been on high alert and we are working with MPD leadership to closely monitor developing information. We have brought in additional officers and are projecting a visible presence both on campus and in our near campus neighborhood.
While we advised members of the Marquette community to remain indoors last night as a precaution, all university departments are open as normal this morning. We encourage everyone on our campus to attend a prayer for peace at 12:30 p.m. today.
As we approach move-in day and the exciting year ahead, we want you all to know how seriously we take the immense responsibility of keeping your sons and daughters safe. I often hear President Lovell say that as soon as students step foot on our campus, they become part of our Marquette family. I emphasize this to every one of our officers.
For those of you who are new to Marquette, you may not know that we became a commissioned police department a little more than a year ago. Why is that important? We saw an immediate impact in crime reduction. Just six months after MU Public Safety became the Marquette University Police Department, we saw a 38% reduction in robberies and a 52% reduction in batteries. Being a commissioned police department also gives us much improved access to real-time information sharing among other agencies allowing us to be more proactive.
We have built an extensive safety infrastructure throughout campus and in the near off-campus neighborhood, which includes more than 700 cameras, over 450 blue light phones, a state-of-the-art command information center and a nationally recognized student safety program. We highly encourage you to make sure your student has downloaded our campus safety app, which is available to both iOS and Android users. We also strongly urge students to use the university's LIMO van service if traveling alone at night. Marquette offers LIMO escort vans every day of the week from 5 p.m. to 3 a.m.
I hope you find it comforting to know that all of our officers have completed the state-mandated 520 hours of training, as well as a psychological review, medical evaluation and drug test. Additionally, consistent with our mission, our officers have undergone intensive training sessions in the areas of homeless outreach, crisis intervention, and fair and impartial police training.
While our police department is staffed 365 days a year, 24 hours a day by highly trained professionals, we know that crimes do happen in urban areas. Whenever there is a threat to campus, we immediately text all students, staff and faculty. I want to emphasize that we send these texts only in emergency situations to keep our community alert — not during situations when there is not a threat to the community.
We encourage you to follow our Twitter account where you will receive every safety alert. You can also find our safety alerts and updates at http://today.marquette.edu/safety-alerts/.
We will share communications with our Parents Facebook group as a secondary resource to inform the group if an event has gained significant attention and also if there is misinformation that may be spreading. As you know, misinformation can spread quickly in today's world.
As a parent myself, I know there is nothing more important than the well-being of my children. Please know that we feel the same way about yours.

Sincerely,
Paul Mascari
Chief

[Tugg Speedman]

The MKE cop was wearing a body camera.  Waiting for the video to be released.

In the meantime ....

Study Links Police Bodycams to Increase in Shooting Deaths
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/08/12/study-links-police-bodycams-to-increase-in-shooting-deaths/

A new study by Temple University researchers, however, suggests that the wearable video cameras may not lead to fewer police shootings of civilians, but may actually make officers more likely to use lethal force.

Officers grew more comfortable using the devices in the field. “It could take a while for police officers to realize how helpful evidence from body cameras can be in justifying the use of lethal force,” they write.

---------

In other words, they are more comfortable shooting someone when wearing a video camera as they believe the video will justify their use of lethal force.

[wadesworld]

The MKE cop was wearing a body camera.  Waiting for the video to be released.

In the meantime ....

Study Links Police Bodycams to Increase in Shooting Deaths
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/08/12/study-links-police-bodycams-to-increase-in-shooting-deaths/

A new study by Temple University researchers, however, suggests that the wearable video cameras may not lead to fewer police shootings of civilians, but may actually make officers more likely to use lethal force.

Officers grew more comfortable using the devices in the field. “It could take a while for police officers to realize how helpful evidence from body cameras can be in justifying the use of lethal force,” they write.

---------

In other words, they are more comfortable shooting someone when wearing a video camera as they believe the video will justify their use of lethal force.

Could it also be related to the fact that there seems to be more violence in general and specifically towards police officers more recently, and body cams have only become available relatively recently?

[brewcity77]

I've been cognizant of body cameras at work and try to make sure I'm aware if they are on or off, especially when it comes to medical information that might not be for public consumption. Hate for someone to pull a FOIA request and end up getting a patient's social security number.

Only 2 fires last night. First was 72nd and Capitol. Still not sure why we didn't go to that one. Sounds like that was the Capitol Auto Mart. Then another one in the Sherman Park area on 41st just south of Burleigh. I believe that was a private residence right across from part of the park.

Busy night for us, but nothing riot related. We had rigs stationed on the edge of the neighborhood with a command post there. MPD had officers or squad cars going along on virtually every call we ran into the neighborhood. The whole city just has a weird feel to it. Maybe I'm being hypersensitive, but on the few occasions we were out yesterday, there definitely seemed to be some people who went out of their way to say hi and thank us for being around, while others seemed far less happy to see us, almost as though we were encroaching.

My usual assignment, Sherman Park is my first in area. I'm temporarily at a different house; it'll be interesting to see what it's like when I get back next month.

[Golden Avalanche]

Could it also be related to the fact that there seems to be more violence in general and specifically towards police officers more recently, and body cams have only become available relatively recently?

Does "in general" refer to a city, county, state, region, country? Does "more recently" refer to 30 days, six months, one year?

[wadesworld]

Does "in general" refer to a city, county, state, region, country? Does "more recently" refer to 30 days, six months, one year?

I don't know, just raising the question.  It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember.  But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question.  Gun violence seems to be up, overall violence seems to be up, racial tension seems to be up, etc.  It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?

Just an honest question.  I don't know the answer.

[Coleman]

I don't know, just raising the question.  It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember.  But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question.  Gun violence seems to be up, overall violence seems to be up, racial tension seems to be up, etc.  It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?

Just an honest question.  I don't know the answer.

My impression is that violent crime is up over the last 3-4 years, after going down significantly in the late 1990s and 2000s. Overall our urban centers are still way ahead of where we were in the 1970s and 1980s but the very recent trend is a bit disturbing.

[Benny B]

Why what's the County going to do?

Well, not the County per se, but more its top law enforcement officer.  Well respected in the community yet famously outspoken against these movements and protests organized in response to police shootings.

[GGGG]

Well, not the County per se, but more its top law enforcement officer.  Well respected in the community yet famously outspoken against these movements and protests organized in response to police shootings.

He sure is outspoken. He just heads an organization that has very little responsibility especially in regards to on the ground patrolling like MPD has. Easy to say whatever you want if you're not the one responsible for anything.

[naginiF]

My impression is that violent crime is up over the last 3-4 years, after going down significantly in the late 1990s and 2000s. Overall our urban centers are still way ahead of where we were in the 1970s and 1980s but the very recent trend is a bit disturbing.

Violent crime is down over the last 5 years in addition to being down over the last 20-25 (link below is FBI for 5 yrs, the longer period is out there i just didn't do the extra search.  There are pockets (hi Chicago) where it is up but those are the exception.

What is 'up' in my opinion is awareness through 24/7 news, surveillance cameras and cell phones - even though it's down it seems like it's up because you hear about it more. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final

[mu_hilltopper]

Hey, enough with the facts.  He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.

As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him.   He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Last week the WSJ  published a story about a Wisc.Senator , who with local pastors, has created a grass roots program (private) that schools inner-city folk in the things needed to be a successful job hunter . And, unlike gov't programs they then assure the graduate of at least one interview. Evidently over a hundred people have been hired by companies in Kenosha and elsewhere and are carpooled to work by church vans. Sounds like some are beginning to address the problems in Milw.

[Coleman]

Hey, enough with the facts.  He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.

As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him.   He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.

Well, I do live in Chicago, so I guess we're both right

[jficke13]

I don't know, just raising the question.  It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember.  But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question.  Gun violence seems to be up, overall violence seems to be up, racial tension seems to be up, etc.  It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?

Just an honest question.  I don't know the answer.

I'm guessing there's a healthy dose of recency bias in there.

Everything seems worse than it is because we're thinking of it in the context of a recent news story.

Flooding - worse than ever (see: Louisiana)
Urban crime - worse than ever (see: Sherman Park)
Police officers KIA - worse than ever (see: Dallas shooting)

It feels like whenever someone cites actual statistics, the reality is things are about the same as ever. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. Maybe that's just normal statistical fluctuation.