Markus and the idea that it's impossible to project

[Jay Bee]

A lot here and elsewhere think it's so impossible to project kids... it's difficult, but if you're been in the gym and have looked at that numbers.. as complementary actions... things become closer to a science than a guess. Impossible? No..

Today's lesson comes from a 2011.. yes, 5 years ago... post.. on this very board:

"btw... Eron Harris (2012) who has run with these kids for Indiana Elite is a nice looking player.  If he winds up at a mid major, he may be the man on a team.  Not a strong frame, but long and athletic.  Drills open deep balls with ease and can attack to the rim or pull up for the j.  Active on defense... looks close to 6'4" to me.. fairly versatile.  I wonder if a bigger school doesn't eventually snatch him up... so far it's just been mid-majors I think.. but I like the kid a lot (more than any of those I4 jagoffs). "

Eron got put on the second team behind Patterson.. who eventually got creaned.. nonetheless, until late Evansville was his 'biggest' offer... Huggins & Wva swooped in late and got him, but when you talk about gems that the masses passed on, but certain people can see.. this is a great example.

As a soph.. 113.4 ORtg, 24.8 usage. Amazing.
Yogi.. 114.5, 25.0%
Hanner 108.1, 19.2%
Jeremy 92.1, 19.0% [can still be amazing. Crean factor]

As a jr with MSU.. 110.9 and 22.8. What's next?

The idea that "it's impossible" to project Henry in college or the NBA, Ingram in college or the NBA, Eron, etc... that's nonsense.

[wadesworld]

A lot here and elsewhere think it's so impossible to project kids... it's difficult, but if you're been in the gym and have looked at that numbers.. as complementary actions... things become closer to a science than a guess. Impossible? No..

Today's lesson comes from a 2011.. yes, 5 years ago... post.. on this very board:

"btw... Eron Harris (2012) who has run with these kids for Indiana Elite is a nice looking player.  If he winds up at a mid major, he may be the man on a team.  Not a strong frame, but long and athletic.  Drills open deep balls with ease and can attack to the rim or pull up for the j.  Active on defense... looks close to 6'4" to me.. fairly versatile.  I wonder if a bigger school doesn't eventually snatch him up... so far it's just been mid-majors I think.. but I like the kid a lot (more than any of those I4 jagoffs). "

Eron got put on the second team behind Patterson.. who eventually got creaned.. nonetheless, until late Evansville was his 'biggest' offer... Huggins & Wva swooped in late and got him, but when you talk about gems that the masses passed on, but certain people can see.. this is a great example.

As a soph.. 113.4 ORtg, 24.8 usage. Amazing.
Yogi.. 114.5, 25.0%
Hanner 108.1, 19.2%
Jeremy 92.1, 19.0% [can still be amazing. Crean factor]

As a jr with MSU.. 110.9 and 22.8. What's next?

The idea that "it's impossible" to project Henry in college or the NBA, Ingram in college or the NBA, Eron, etc... that's nonsense.

What did this have to do with Markus Howard?

[Jay Bee]

What did this have to do with Markus Howard?

Folks on here believe "it's impossible to project" how Markus will do.

It's not.

[MuMark]

It's not impossible but it is an in exact science. I'm sure they are plenty of guys that you liked who didn't pan out.

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[Jay Bee]

It's not impossible but it is an in exact science. I'm sure they are plenty of guys that you liked who didn't pan out.

Yep. Jeremy Hollowell I thought was a prime Crean truther. Could he make a guy with tremendous talent but some challenges great? I thought Hollowell would persevere.. he still might? Chris Thomas another.

Still, the guys who didn't turn out (thus far) all have a common theme.. red flags, that were raised along with the initial valuation.. Damontrae Jefferson another one..

Overall, it's a work and in progress and quite good.

But, to put some context on this thread:

It's too early to even make an educated guess as to how good he'll be.

That's what MU82 said. It's silly.

To think that people that have been watching a guy for 6+ years can't "even make an educated guess as to how good he'll be"? That's nonsense.

[wadesworld]

Folks on here believe "it's impossible to project" how Markus will do.

It's not.

I see.

I'm excited about Markus. But I've been excited about some other MU guys who didn't do too well. So we'll see.

[Jay Bee]

I see.

I'm excited about Markus. But I've been excited about some other MU guys who didn't do too well. So we'll see.

Do you think you'd stand a chance against me one on one, up to 15, 1's and 2's?

I played volleyball with these cats several weeks ago. My fingers straight up split.. is that normal? Had to put NewSkin on 'em to heal it. But I was taller than most of them and slammed that puny ball on their heads (nh)

I believe you could whip me in volleyball.. bball? Me win, no problem bahdee.

Markus.. is it possible he struggles from the field ? yes. I think he'll be solid+++. Looking forward to seeing it unfold.

[Lennys Tap]

Folks on here believe "it's impossible to project" how Markus will do.

It's not.

There are a handful of Scoop posters who consistently provide valuable and predictive information on recruits. I place you at the top of that list. And there are many who don't have the eye, the access or the grasp of numbers required to do likewise.

I look forward to your analysis - it's first hand, accurate and insightful. Thanks.

[dgies9156]

The way I see it is this: These are 17 to 19 year old kids. Most have pretty strong talent to be considered for in Marquette's case, about $225,000 investment. Do we get them all right? Heck no. We don't in business either when we do college hires.

In my time, I've seen Marquette take a chance on Tony Reeder and fall flat on its face. Same for Dean Marquardt. But I also see that we were one of the few schools who saw the talent in DWade and the only one willing to stick its neck out. We did well with the Amigos, with Wes Matthews, less so with Jeronne Maymon.

I think Howard is going to be great, but that's easy to say on the eve of him stepping on campus. Nine months from now, we'll get the first hint.

[wadesworld]

Do you think you'd stand a chance against me one on one, up to 15, 1's and 2's?

I played volleyball with these cats several weeks ago. My fingers straight up split.. is that normal? Had to put NewSkin on 'em to heal it. But I was taller than most of them and slammed that puny ball on their heads (nh)

I believe you could whip me in volleyball.. bball? Me win, no problem bahdee.

Markus.. is it possible he struggles from the field ? yes. I think he'll be solid+++. Looking forward to seeing it unfold.

Hah I don't play one on one often (can't remember the last time I did) so I have no idea.  It's a team game in my book, ai'na?  I get to play twice a week, which I think is a good number.  It's tough to get hoops in while still getting to bed early.  If I could push back starting work until like 10 AM but still getting out at 4:30 (that's the dream hey?) then I would love to play 5 days (including weekends) a week.  Unfortunately doesn't work that way.  Play pickup every Monday for 2 hours and every Wednesday for an hour and a half...except over the summer (now) am in a league on Wednesday nights.

Split as in they got so dry?  I guess my hands have gotten dry playing volleyball, but not anywhere near that dry.

[Jay Bee]

Lenny's, thank you for the kind words

I think Howard is going to be great, but that's easy to say on the eve of him stepping on campus. Nine months from now, we'll get the first hint.

The language of "the first hint" is what's so inflammatory and wrong. Have you been in the gym with him for multiple days? Maybe not. But some have. You think they don't have "the first hint"?

[brewcity77]

The kid kills it in Arizona, kills it at a top prep school, and it seems every professional watching the U17s (not just the laymen) is raving about what Howard is going to do at Marquette.

If he falls flat on his face, I'll be very surprised. Maybe he won't be a locked in starter from day one, but I think he'll be able to contribute early and when we look back there will be a strong consensus that he outperformed his rankings. Yes, there are surprises, but if this stuff couldn't be predicted, the scouting business wouldn't exist.

[We R Final Four]

Happy 4th!! Wow--I am just curious who on this board or anywhere has said MH doesn't project well?
Yes--trending upwards. Let's leave it at that and watch how the jump to Beast unfolds.
In 3-4 years MH may have the tools to play in the league.......don't think I'm not quoting this as a reference 3-4 years from now to post on scoop either.

[Jay Bee]

Happy 4th!! Wow--I am just curious who on this board or anywhere has said MH doesn't project well?

In this thread, folks have said, "Nine months from now, we'll get the first hint."

They don't believe there can even be a HINT until after a year of college.

It's bizarre.

[MU82]

That's what MU82 said. It's silly.

You called me on it in another thread. I thought about it more and agreed you were right. I clarified my stance. And now you come at me again here in a separate thread. OK then.

You are starting to sound like one of those guys who always has to show how much smarter you are than everybody else. Whatever floats your boat, my friend.

[Jay Bee]

You called me on it in another thread. I thought about it more and agreed you were right. I clarified my stance. And now you come at me again here in a separate thread. OK then.

You are starting to sound like one of those guys who always has to show how much smarter you are than everybody else. Whatever floats your boat, my friend.

I don't read most of your posts. This is the second time you've done this. I haven't called you out on anything in this thread. I was referencing to someone else. Cripes, get a grip.

The way I see it is this: These are 17 to 19 year old kids. Most have pretty strong talent to be considered for in Marquette's case, about $225,000 investment. Do we get  Nine months from now, we'll get the first hint.

See?

dgies156 is who I was talking about.

I'm the one who wants to be 'smarter'? Haha... fall back, bud. (And an apology is in order)

[real chili 83]

ND sucks

[GooooMarquette]

ND sucks

I agree with this analysis.

[dgies9156]

In this thread, folks have said, "Nine months from now, we'll get the first hint."

They don't believe there can even be a HINT until after a year of college.

It's bizarre.

Are you kidding me?

The point is this. I think Mr. Howard has quite a bit of talent or else he would not be on the roster for next year. Period. I want him to do really well in his Warrior career.

What I meant and what you're missing is this: Until we see how he plays with the team; how he fits into Coach Wojo's game and how he reacts to the Big East schedule and some really tough teams; we won't know. A year ago. I knew Henry was going to be someone special. He was. I think Markus probably will be someone really good. 

[muwar2003]

If Dean Marquardt would have redshirted after he wrecked his shoulder and not come back so fast, he might have been  at least a second round pick.   Look how he killed Notre Dame his senior year.

[real chili 83]

That was a fun game.

I agree with this analysis.

[jsglow]

JB, I too think Markus will be very productive over his 4 years.  In your view, what's his greatest weakness right now? What part of his game holds him back at the next level?

[We R Final Four]

I think Scoop is the only obstacle getting in MH's path to greatness.

[bilsu]

I watched the 4Th quarter of the quarter final game and all of the championship game and that is all I have seen of Howard. What I noticed was his tendency on offense to run for the three point line and hang out there waving his had for the ball. I did see him make a couple of very impressive twos. It is hard for me to compare him to players who were not on the court with him. However, in spite of his shooting I do not think he has any chance of beating out Carter for the point guard spot. Carter is bigger, stronger and quicker (quickness is the hardest thing for me to judge, but Howard did not blow me away with his quickness) than Howard. Wilson is bigger and quicker than Howard. JJJ is bigger and quicker than Howard. Haanif is bigger than Howard. Than there is Rowsey who is about the same height and has much more experience than Howard. I am not saying that Howard will not become a very good player, but I do believe he does not play much next year, because of the number of experienced guards we have on the team. His strength is three point shooting, but this team already has a lot of three point shooters. I think Wojo is going to still value taking the ball to the basket versus camping shooters on the three point line. However, it is up to the coach to build a team around special talents of players so who knows? Wojo essentially let Henry do what ever he wanted to do, so maybe he will let Howard camp out on the three point line. It is probably harder to judge what Wojo is planning than what Howard's skillset is.