Game 7 thread

[wadesworld]

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/744720517035364356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Sorry, but if his weight fell on anything it's on his shoulder.  His hand slides right along the floor with his momentum.  By the time any of his weight is hitting the floor his hand isn't even on the ground.  Here's an example of a wrist folding awkwardly:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v25537611/bosnyy-matsui-breaks-wrist-while-diving-for-ball

They even talk about if the hand just slides with your slide you're fine (like LeBron's did), but if it catches (LeBron's clearly didn't) it folds the wrist.

Fact of the matter is LeBron rolled around on the ground for minutes screaming like he was going to get up with a limb dangling and wobbling around from his body...only to walk to the free throw line and shoot a couple free throws with no issue whatsoever.

But I'm Skip Bayless.

[tower912]

At least you admit it.

[StillAWarrior]

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/744720517035364356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Sorry, but if his weight fell on anything it's on his shoulder.  His hand slides right along the floor with his momentum.  By the time any of his weight is hitting the floor his hand isn't even on the ground.  Here's an example of a wrist folding awkwardly:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v25537611/bosnyy-matsui-breaks-wrist-while-diving-for-ball

They even talk about if the hand just slides with your slide you're fine (like LeBron's did), but if it catches (LeBron's clearly didn't) it folds the wrist.

Fact of the matter is LeBron rolled around on the ground for minutes screaming like he was going to get up with a limb dangling and wobbling around from his body...only to walk to the free throw line and shoot a couple free throws with no issue whatsoever.

But I'm Skip Bayless.

The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison).  I don't doubt that that fall hurt a bit, even though he clearly didn't fold the wrist -- and I agree he didn't and was immediately relieved (as a Cavs fan) when I saw the first replay.  I don't know exactly what hurt, or why it hurt or how much it hurt.  And I'll even acknowledge that LeBron was a bit of a drama queen and maybe exaggerated (to catch his breath, to get attention, to add drama to the moment, all of the above, none of the above).  And clearly you find that annoying.  But when you type stuff like I bolded above, you're every bit the drama queen as LeBron.  And it's annoying.

And your "fact of the matter" is not even correct -- it's just your editorializing.  He didn't "roll around on the ground for minutes screaming..."   He was on his feet less than a minute after he hit the floor.  I didn't hear him screaming (although someone - maybe LeBron - was cussing because they killed the sound).  And the rest of the bolded part is pure exaggeration and editorializing.

I think the "fact of the matter" is a combination of what someone said earlier in the thread and your underlying point.  He hit the ground -- smacking his hand/wrist on the floor.  It hurt.  There was that initial moment of fear when he felt the pain and it scared him.  He was a bit of a drama queen while he took inventory of the situation.  He realized he wasn't injured.  And 53 seconds later he got up.  Not that big of a deal.  But, because you hate LeBron, you seem to think it is a huge deal.

[MerrittsMustache]

The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison).

It's similar to his "unbiased" views of Jay Cutler in the NFL threads.

And obviously Jay Cutler is the LeBron of the NFL 

[GGGG]

The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison).  I don't doubt that that fall hurt a bit, even though he clearly didn't fold the wrist -- and I agree he didn't and was immediately relieved (as a Cavs fan) when I saw the first replay.  I don't know exactly what hurt, or why it hurt or how much it hurt.  And I'll even acknowledge that LeBron was a bit of a drama queen and maybe exaggerated (to catch his breath, to get attention, to add drama to the moment, all of the above, none of the above).  And clearly you find that annoying.  But when you type stuff like I bolded above, you're every bit the drama queen as LeBron.  And it's annoying.

And your "fact of the matter" is not even correct -- it's just your editorializing.  He didn't "roll around on the ground for minutes screaming..."   He was on his feet less than a minute after he hit the floor.  I didn't hear him screaming (although someone - maybe LeBron - was cussing because they killed the sound).  And the rest of the bolded part is pure exaggeration and editorializing.

I think the "fact of the matter" is a combination of what someone said earlier in the thread and your underlying point.  He hit the ground -- smacking his hand/wrist on the floor.  It hurt.  There was that initial moment of fear when he felt the pain and it scared him.  He was a bit of a drama queen while he took inventory of the situation.  He realized he wasn't injured.  And 53 seconds later he got up.  Not that big of a deal.  But, because you hate LeBron, you seem to think it is a huge deal.

Another point:  Even if the whole thing was an act...who cares?  Going back to what I said at the beginning of the series, people choose to not like Lebron for completely silly and irrational reasons.  This is yet another one.

Paul Pierce was carried off the floor by his teammates back in 2008, rolled back to the locker room in a wheelchair, and comes out to play later in the game and...<crickets>

Lebron may or may not be in pain after a hard fall, and people like wades are up in arms about it.  Bizarre.   

[Pakuni]

But I'm Skip Bayless.

When is someone finally going to give Tim Tebow a chance?

[GooooMarquette]

Going back to what I said at the beginning of the series, people choose to not like Lebron for completely silly and irrational reasons.
   

Absolutely true.

But just as people choose not to like LeBron for completely silly and irrational reasons, likewise many people choose to like him for completely silly and irrational reasons.

Cleveland fans loved him because he played for the Cavs.  Then they hated him, and Miami fans loved him, because he went to Miami.  Then they loved him because he came back to the Cavs.  He was the same player all along, but many people chose to like him (or not) because of the color of his jersey.

Want another example?  Packer fans loved Favre while he was playing for Green Bay, then hated him when he played with the Vikings.  Same guy, different jersey.

Many of our preferences in spectator sports - like any form of entertainment - aren't based on some objective standard.  They are largely based on subjective feelings, beliefs and loyalties.

[GGGG]

Absolutely true.

But just as people choose not to like LeBron for completely silly and irrational reasons, likewise many people choose to like him for completely silly and irrational reasons.

Cleveland fans loved him because he played for the Cavs.  Then they hated him, and Miami fans loved him, because he went to Miami.  Then they loved him because he came back to the Cavs.  He was the same player all along, but many people chose to like him (or not) because of the color of his jersey.

Want another example?  Packer fans loved Favre while he was playing for Green Bay, then hated him when he played with the Vikings.  Same guy, different jersey.

Many of our preferences in spectator sports - like any form of entertainment - aren't based on some objective standard.  They are largely based on subjective feelings, beliefs and loyalties.

I understand that.  Hating on a rival is completely rational to me. 

But I think it is more than that.  I know people who have no rooting interest for or against the Cavs who don't like Lebron.  I know people who aren't really fans of NBA basketball who don't like Lebron.  And when you ask them why, you get stuff like what is mentioned in this and the earlier thread.  It makes no sense to me.  I have no idea why he is unlikable.  It is irrational. 

[jsglow]

Folks hate LeBron because he's the best and a winner.  And frankly among top athletes in each sport, he's actually pretty easy to like compared to many.  Favre's personal life was always kind of a mess for example.  ARodg learned by watching and always seems to carry himself with dignity at the other end of the scale. 

Personally, I like LeBron a lot as I saw the same jealousy directed toward Michael.  Now unfortunately we've learned that MJ had a darker side that wasn't too well known at the time.  Let's hope LeBron's image stands the test of time better. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Folks hate LeBron because he's the best and a winner.  And frankly among top athletes in each sport, he's actually pretty easy to like compared to many.  Favre's personal life was always kind of a mess for example.  ARodg learned by watching and always seems to carry himself with dignity at the other end of the scale. 

Personally, I like LeBron a lot as I saw the same jealousy directed toward Michael.  Now unfortunately we've learned that MJ had a darker side that wasn't too well known at the time.  Let's hope LeBron's image stands the test of time better.

Sure, LeBron has forced coaches out (like Jordan and Magic did), he has a huge ego (like, well, every all-world athlete), etc. He's also the best in the world at what he does and a once-in-a-generation athlete. For whatever reason, being great makes a person hateable in the minds of many. Last year, Steph Curry was the toast of the town. By the end of this season, a lot of fans completely turned on him.

As for LeBron, some people have never gotten over "The Decision" even though he admitted several years ago that it was a mistake. In addition, that "decision" turned people off because he want to join his buddies in Miami as opposed to wanting to win a championship on his own, you know, the way all the greats did 

[Pakuni]

As for LeBron, some people have never gotten over "The Decision" even though he admitted several years ago that it was a mistake. In addition, that "decision" turned people off because he want to join his buddies in Miami as opposed to wanting to win a championship on his own, you know, the way all the greats did 

I think there's a little bit more to it than that. Fairly or not, many saw LeBron going to Miami as taking the easy road to a title, and doing so in a way that kicked his hometown in the nuts.

[GGGG]

I think there's a little bit more to it than that. Fairly or not, many saw LeBron going to Miami as taking the easy road to a title, and doing so in a way that kicked his hometown in the nuts.

Well it was an easier road to a title.  There really is no disputing that.  He was a free agent so that was his right.  The Decision was dumb.  He realized it was dumb and apologized.  I doubt anyone who was offended by that really cares any longer.

[jesmu84]

I hate him because of his off-the-court antics. Much to do with social media and regular media interactions.

[GooooMarquette]

I understand that.  Hating on a rival is completely rational to me. 

But I think it is more than that.  I know people who have no rooting interest for or against the Cavs who don't like Lebron.  I know people who aren't really fans of NBA basketball who don't like Lebron.  And when you ask them why, you get stuff like what is mentioned in this and the earlier thread.  It makes no sense to me.  I have no idea why he is unlikable.  It is irrational.

But Cleveland and Miami were never really rivals, except in the most general sense (they both play in the NBA).  So Packer fans hating Favre for going to the Vikings was "rational", while Cavs fans hating LeBron for going to Miami arguably wasn't - or at the least, was far less rational...right?

[GGGG]

I can completely see why Cav fans hated Lebron.

I have trouble figuring out why my friend who barely watches the NBA hates Lebron.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have trouble figuring out why my friend who barely watches the NBA hates Lebron.

If I had to guess the whole concept of the 'decision' was off-putting to the average person.  Once you get that perspective then you amplify every other negative experience with the person and likely don't look for the good.

The other thing, for some reason I have noticed that the 'average' person claims they do not like the NBA.  Put those together with a guy who skipped college and you get some average guy hate.

[GGGG]

If I had to guess the whole concept of the 'decision' was off-putting to the average person.  Once you get that perspective then you amplify every other negative experience with the person and likely don't look for the good.

But this is what I don't get.  If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy?  Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?

It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers.  Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

But this is what I don't get.  If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy?  Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?

It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers.  Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?

Because that was a flashy & self-motivated move that ripped the heart out of a fan-base.  Doesn't play well to the casual fan in my opinion.  If LBJ never goes back to the Cav's their fans don't forgive him -- if I were to guess its a binary thing for them.  Pure hypothesis but if LBJ left for the Lakers - I am sure some Cav's fans turn back to disliking him.

I think if Favre went to the Vikes in his prime or did a nationally televised special many people would feel the same way. 

I personally don't care and don't dislike LBJ, but I can see why his image took a hit.

[JWags85]

But this is what I don't get.  If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy?  Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?

It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers.  Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?

Because they've only forgiven him since he came back and suddenly their interests were aligned again.  If he didn't come back, his apologies and "maturity" wouldn't mean anything.  If your friend's gf  cheats on him when he's going through a rough patch and flaunts all over the place, but then apologizes and comes back after he gets a promotion at work, you're still justified in thinking she's awful even if he's happy again.  Neither of you would particularly care for her if she apologized but continued dating other randoms.

[Pakuni]

But this is what I don't get.  If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy?  Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?

It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers.  Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?

Because sports fans (myself included) are idiots when it comes to "forgiving" players when they can help our teams win.

When your team's star player returns from some transgression to lead the squad to a championship, it's a wonderful tale of redemption.
When it's some other team's star player returning from some transgression to lead them to a championship, it's proof that their idiot fans would sell their souls for a title.

In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.

Agree on that as a Sox fan -- even better example was Rodman for me (because of his Piston beginning). 

[MerrittsMustache]

Because sports fans (myself included) are idiots when it comes to "forgiving" players when they can help our teams win.

When your team's star player returns from some transgression to lead the squad to a championship, it's a wonderful tale of redemption.
When it's some other team's star player returning from some transgression to lead them to a championship, it's proof that their idiot fans would sell their souls for a title.

In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.

Cubs fans welcomed Jim Edmonds.

Packers fans welcomed Julius Peppers.

Yankees fans welcomed Roger Clemens.

Vikings fans welcomed Brett Favre.

Brewers fans welcomed back Ryan Braun.

Giants fans cheered for Barry Bonds.

No matter where you played before or what you've done, if you can help our team win, you're our guy!

[naginiF]

Agree on that as a Sox fan -- even better example was Rodman for me (because of his Piston beginning).

as long as we're branching into the "guys i love on my team but totally get why everyone hates them" thread...

AJ was clearly that guy as a Twins fan
John Starks was that guy as a Knicks fan.  same era - HATED Reggie Miller but would've loved him on my team.
Moss came close to being that guy if he hadn't turned out to be such a cancer

[GGGG]

Because they've only forgiven him since he came back and suddenly their interests were aligned again.  If he didn't come back, his apologies and "maturity" wouldn't mean anything.  If your friend's gf  cheats on him when he's going through a rough patch and flaunts all over the place, but then apologizes and comes back after he gets a promotion at work, you're still justified in thinking she's awful even if he's happy again.  Neither of you would particularly care for her if she apologized but continued dating other randoms.

That's really not a very good analogy.

[GooooMarquette]

Sultan - I really think you're overanalyzing this. 

Peoples' likes and dislikes are so subjective and unpredictable that it's futile to assume they fall simply into the "rational" or "irrational."  There might be certain factors that make a like/dislike decision seem more rational to you (like going to a rival)...but even after I pointed out that Miami was never really a rival of Cleveland, you still said you understood why the Cavs fans hated LeBron.  Why? Because it subjectively makes sense to you...not because they were objectively right to hate him.

Likes and dislikes are based as much (maybe more) on emotion than logic.  Accept that, and life will be much more relaxing.