Butler to T-Wolves?

[MU82]

No one is giving up anything for Derrick Rose.

Maybe not now. But once the season gets going, he will be "an expiring contract," and trading partners love those.

I agree it will be difficult to impossible to dump him now, but if the Bulls play poorly again before the calendar turns to 2017, Rose will be a prime bargaining chip.

[🏀]

Maybe not now. But once the season gets going, he will be "an expiring contract," and trading partners love those.

I agree it will be difficult to impossible to dump him now, but if the Bulls play poorly again before the calendar turns to 2017, Rose will be a prime bargaining chip.

The expiring contract era is over in the NBA, teams aren't in demand for cap flexibility anymore as they all have cap space with the rising salary cap.

[GGGG]

I don't think this is just about Rose.  It's about a poor relationship with Hoiberg.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

No one is giving up anything for Derrick Rose.

I'm aware, and that's perfectly fine. I'd take a bag of basketballs and a hand pump at this point, or Ty Lawson.

[jsglow]

I'm aware, and that's perfectly fine. I'd take a bag of basketballs and a hand pump at this point, or Ty Lawson.

Seeing it the same as you.

[rocket surgeon]

      no brainer-bring back thibs, trade rose to brooklyn or philly

[GGGG]

Thibs has total control in Minnesota. He coming back and the Bulls shouldn't want him back.

[rocket surgeon]

what could the buck s offer if if if...no not the greek freak.  i'd love to see him back in milwaukee!

[Pakuni]

5, Lavine, Dieng, and 2018. But I have zero faith in GarPax making any intelligent decision.

Rejecting that would be an intelligent decision.
The #5 pick in this draft is far from a sure thing. LaVine is a backup on a decent team, Dieng  is thoroughly mediocre, and next year's #1 in Minnesota will be 15-20+ if they have Jimmy.
In a star-driven league, that's a pitiful return for an all-star two-way player in his prime and under contract for four more years.
Wiggins or bust, and that's not likely.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The MN offer is nowhere near enough for Butler. Regardless of whether Butler stays or goes the Bulls need to rebuild. Unfortunately I don't have the confidence in the front office to do so successfully.

[Pakuni]

Drafting Snell, giving up two first rounders for McFlopper not trying everything in their power to cut ties with Rose, it's ridiculous.

If you look at who else was taken in that first round, i.e. who the Bulls could have had instead of McDermott, that actually looks like a decent trade.
You'd prefer Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris (the two players selected with the picks the Bulls gave up)?

[wadesworld]

If you look at who else was taken in that first round, i.e. who the Bulls could have had instead of McDermott, that actually looks like a decent trade.
You'd prefer Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris (the two players selected with the picks the Bulls gave up)?

Players aren't selected by a draft spot.  They're selected by a team.  If the Bulls are drafting in those spots those probably aren't the 2 players that go with those selections.

[drewm88]

Rejecting that would be an intelligent decision.
The #5 pick in this draft is far from a sure thing. LaVine is a backup on a decent team, Dieng  is thoroughly mediocre, and next year's #1 in Minnesota will be 15-20+ if they have Jimmy.
In a star-driven league, that's a pitiful return for an all-star two-way player in his prime and under contract for four more years.
Wiggins or bust, and that's not likely.

It'd have to be the 2018 pick, which would assumedly be even weaker with another year of development for the young guys. Can't trade your #1 in consecutive years.

[MU82]

The expiring contract era is over in the NBA, teams aren't in demand for cap flexibility anymore as they all have cap space with the rising salary cap.

You say this with such certainty. All I'll say is "we'll see."

[🏀]

You say this with such certainty. All I'll say is "we'll see."

Uhhh...Google it? There's no market for clearing cap space when teams are going to be given a brand new shiny amount of cap space.

[mu03eng]

Uhhh...Google it? There's no market for clearing cap space when teams are going to be given a brand new shiny amount of cap space.

Are you saying that for this coming year or for the foreseeable future in the NBA?

If you are saying next year, we agree. If you are seeing expiring contract trades are dead forever we may have to violently disagree. The cap space will get chewed up just like it always does even though it skyrockets. Someone is going to max contract a bunch of mid-level players because they can meaning in the new era that mid-level players for a time could be making more than all-star players (there is an argument to be made that after this off-season that Harrison Barnes could be making more money on GSW than Steph will be). So max contracts are going to be handed out like candy until they spend up the cap and when the true superstars come onto the market space will need to be cleared.

It ain't dead, just hibernating.

[Pakuni]

Players aren't selected by a draft spot.  They're selected by a team.  If the Bulls are drafting in those spots those probably aren't the 2 players that go with those selections.

OK, fine.
The point is, that draft was at best mediocre after the top 10 and nobody who would have been available and likely for the Bulls with their original picks (#16, 19) is looking like any more solid of a player than McDermott.
There are lots of valid reasons to be unhappy with the GarPax reign, but that trade isn't one of them.

[Pakuni]

It'd have to be the 2018 pick, which would assumedly be even weaker with another year of development for the young guys. Can't trade your #1 in consecutive years.

Good point.
Thanks

[MU82]

Uhhh...Google it? There's no market for clearing cap space when teams are going to be given a brand new shiny amount of cap space.

All I'm saying is let's see how this all shakes out.

The cap exists basically to protect owners from each other and themselves. History has shown that whenever the cap rises, there still are many, many teams that push right up against it -- and even go over it.

Those teams, especially, might still find expiring contracts to be valuable.

Now, you might be very right about Rose because teams might be so flush with money for the upcoming season that the timing won't work for the Bulls to use his expiring contract in creative trades.

But, long-term, I have little doubt that many owners won't be able to help themselves as they pursue a championship.

As always, I will continue to use my favorite two words when trying to project future results or scenarios:

We'll see.

[LAZER]

Uhhh...Google it? There's no market for clearing cap space when teams are going to be given a brand new shiny amount of cap space.

So with the new cap space, what will the new max be?  Is it safe to assume Butler will turn down his player option in '19?

[🏀]

Are you saying that for this coming year or for the foreseeable future in the NBA?

If you are saying next year, we agree. If you are seeing expiring contract trades are dead forever we may have to violently disagree. The cap space will get chewed up just like it always does even though it skyrockets. Someone is going to max contract a bunch of mid-level players because they can meaning in the new era that mid-level players for a time could be making more than all-star players (there is an argument to be made that after this off-season that Harrison Barnes could be making more money on GSW than Steph will be). So max contracts are going to be handed out like candy until they spend up the cap and when the true superstars come onto the market space will need to be cleared.

It ain't dead, just hibernating.

Hibernating, yes. In terms of DRose, dead.

[🏀]

All I'm saying is let's see how this all shakes out.

The cap exists basically to protect owners from each other and themselves. History has shown that whenever the cap rises, there still are many, many teams that push right up against it -- and even go over it.

Those teams, especially, might still find expiring contracts to be valuable.

Now, you might be very right about Rose because teams might be so flush with money for the upcoming season that the timing won't work for the Bulls to use his expiring contract in creative trades.

But, long-term, I have little doubt that many owners won't be able to help themselves as they pursue a championship.

As always, I will continue to use my favorite two words when trying to project future results or scenarios:

We'll see.

Someone may bite, I think Rose will fill sheets next season. Not sure if he can trick anyone into believing it.

[🏀]

So with the new cap space, what will the new max be?  Is it safe to assume Butler will turn down his player option in '19?

If Jimmy keeps being Jimmy, there's going to be a new market for him, even if thats staying with the Bulls.

There will be a lot of teams in basketball hell looking to make the league minimum in salary

[martyconlonontherun]

The expiring contract era is over in the NBA, teams aren't in demand for cap flexibility anymore as they all have cap space with the rising salary cap.

I only half agree. There's 24 teams with max cap room this year and about the same next year. However, the era isn't dead. This contracts will add up and teams will need space in the future after blowing max money on guys like Harrison Barnes.

[Pakuni]

Bulls would rather trade Rose than Butler.
You don't say?

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/16/report-bulls-prefer-trading-derrick-rose-to-jimmy-butler/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter