How One Nova Law Student Graduated Debt-Free

[jficke13]

Listen, my relationship is perfect.  My opinions merely represent an expression of logic and in no way reflects my personal experiences or desires.  I have no complaints about my marriage, and I know for a fact that my wife agrees; we are very loyal to one another, believe very strongly in the Catholic faith, and have a very monogamous relationship (don't know why I had to emphasize the monogamousness there, but I did).

The point I was making is that we all give up something for sex, whether tangible or intangible.  I'm not surprised how several posters have decided to cherry pick one example of the point in ignorance of the point itself, but surprisingly, Chicos was actually closest of the ilk... to the extent we're referring to loyal, monogamous, marital sex, you've devoted yourself to another person, ipso facto, you've given up the ability to devote yourself to someone else.  But just because you're giving something up doesn't mean you're giving up something of value... the gains I've made on my marital "investment" are damn near undefined in comparison to the value of what I gave up (that's a math reference referring to dividing something by zero).  The only people who don't give something up (willingly) in a marriage are those for whom their marriage was arranged... the value of the marital investment to all others, however, is in the eye of the beholder.

For the record, I have never engaged in prostitution (neither vendor nor customer) and have never had any desire to do so.  But I don't condemn those that do.  As mentioned by 'Rent, it's a business transaction; I fail to see what's morally wrong with two consenting adults entering into a willing service arrangement as buyer-seller.

I think that at least some people's hesitance to embrace a free market in this industry is colored by the fact that in many instances the "consenting" part is missing on the part of the labor force.

[Tugg Speedman]

Listen, my relationship is perfect.  My opinions merely represent an expression of logic and in no way reflects my personal experiences or desires.  I have no complaints about my marriage, and I know for a fact that my wife agrees; we are very loyal to one another, believe very strongly in the Catholic faith, and have a very monogamous relationship (don't know why I had to emphasize the monogamousness there, but I did).

The point I was making is that we all give up something for sex, whether tangible or intangible.  I'm not surprised how several posters have decided to cherry pick one example of the point in ignorance of the point itself, but surprisingly, Chicos was actually closest of the ilk... to the extent we're referring to loyal, monogamous, marital sex, you've devoted yourself to another person, ipso facto, you've given up the ability to devote yourself to someone else.  But just because you're giving something up doesn't mean you're giving up something of value... the gains I've made on my marital "investment" are damn near undefined in comparison to the value of what I gave up (that's a math reference referring to dividing something by zero).  The only people who don't give something up (willingly) in a marriage are those for whom their marriage was arranged... the value of the marital investment to all others, however, is in the eye of the beholder.

For the record, I have never engaged in prostitution (neither vendor nor customer) and have never had any desire to do so.  But I don't condemn those that do.  As mentioned by 'Rent, it's a business transaction; I fail to see what's morally wrong with two consenting adults entering into a willing service arrangement as buyer-seller.

Again ... cannot the same be said when consenting adults agree to work at a business that pays men more than women?

When consenting adults agree to not serve custard to customers that do not speak English?

when consenting adults agree to exclude women from their club?

When consenting adults agree to base their hiring practices on gender and/or race?

Why are the above morally wrong but prostitution is not?

[Lennys Tap]

Again ... cannot the same be said when consenting adults agree to work at a business that pays men more than women?

When consenting adults agree to not serve custard to customers that do not speak English?

when consenting adults agree to exclude women from their club?

When consenting adults agree to base their hiring practices on gender and/or race?

Why are the above morally wrong but prostitution is not?

There is discrimination at the heart of all of your examples.

There is no discrimination in the agreement between prostitute and john. If you would have argued that prostitutes shouldn't be allowed to discriminate towards a john due to race, weight or even sex you might have the basis of an analogy. But you didn't and you don't.

[rocket surgeon]

Gotta weigh in with the woman's point of view.  Married sex, or for that matter, relationship sex, is not a factor of exchanging "compensation" for nookie.  I don't cook my husband dinner to get sex, and he doesn't buy me flowers to get sex.  We are two people committed to maintaining a life together, and mutually enjoying each others' company, sharing the chores, doing thoughtful things for each other and yes, sharing the pleasure of sex. The difference between married sex and trading sex for cash/favors is kind of like the difference between a soldier and a mercenary - one fights because he believes in a cause and the other fights whoever somebody pays him to fight.  Sex as part of a healthy relationship, where both parties are fully participating in a life together, is not the same as prostitution.

And Benny, if you're buying your wife flowers because you're hoping to get some, then you're doing it wrong.    Buy your wife flowers because you know she loves flowers.  For sex, all you really have to do is ask.

wow mom!! perfectly stated...will you marry me? 

[Tugg Speedman]

There is discrimination at the heart of all of your examples.

There is no discrimination in the agreement between prostitute and john. If you would have argued that prostitutes shouldn't be allowed to discriminate towards a john due to race, weight or even sex you might have the basis of an analogy. But you didn't and you don't.

Fair enough

So how about drug dealing?  Is that a better analogy?  Consenting adults agreeing to buy and take drugs (any kind of drugs).  Should that be illegal too?

How about bribery?  Consenting adults .. should that be illegal?

Gambling?  Why is this illegal ... consenting adults

Organ sales ... consenting adults

[Benny B]

I think that at least some people's hesitance to embrace a free market in this industry is colored by the fact that in many instances the "consenting" part is missing on the part of the labor force.

Then said people should take issue with with the "sex trafficking" or "rape" or "child enticement" or whatever it's called.

The problem with society is that very few understand what the problems affecting society are.

Fair enough

So how about drug dealing?  Is that a better analogy?  Consenting adults agreeing to buy and take drugs (any kind of drugs).  Should that be illegal too?

How about bribery?  Consenting adults .. should that be illegal?

Gambling?  Why is this illegal ... consenting adults

Organ sales ... consenting adults

We're not debating the legality of prostitution, we're debating the morality of it; if you want to discuss the morality of gambling and doing drugs - or the legality of prostitution - then fine... start your own thread.


[Note to everyone except Heisey: Yes, I am well aware of the that I actually told Heisey to start a new thread on something.  For reference, this is an accurate example of what irony is... not "Canadian irony," e.g. the BS that Alanis sings about.]

[Sir Lawrence]

[Note to everyone except Heisey: Yes, I am well aware of the that I actually told Heisey to start a new thread on something.  For reference, this is an accurate example of what irony is... not "Canadian irony," e.g. the BS that Alanis sings about.]

Wait, what?!  Do you mean to say that a black fly in my Chardonnay, or a traffic jam when I'm already late, is simply coincidence? 

[Lennys Tap]

Fair enough

So how about drug dealing?  Is that a better analogy?  Consenting adults agreeing to buy and take drugs (any kind of drugs).  Should that be illegal too?

How about bribery?  Consenting adults .. should that be illegal?

Gambling?  Why is this illegal ... consenting adults

Organ sales ... consenting adults

Most libertarians would favor legalized drugs and gambling (subject to taxation and with age limits).

Bribery? No, that doesn't promote free and fair markets.

Organ sales? Don't know enough to comment.

[rocket surgeon]

I'd be fine with it.  It is her life.  I know many people that live a polyamorous lifestyle.  Done right amongst consenting adults that all adhere to the standards of the relationship, it seems to work for them.

Not my place to step in and assign my morality to someone else.  All I can hope for is that they are safe and happy.

As for my wife and I, we are strictly monogamous.  That is how we prefer to live and have stuck to those standards our entire life and will continue to do so.

wow!  you're a better man than me...i'd lose my mind!!  as i tell most everyone, i'm glad i had 2 boys b/c i could never raise a girl today-that's just me and i'm being honest about it. i actually have a lot of respect for dads raising girls.  for me however, it's(prostitution) too risky in many ways.  and i'm a pretty laid back guy

[MomofMUltiples]

wow mom!! perfectly stated...will you marry me? 

No, but I'd be open to an arrangement whereby you pay my kids' Marquette tuition in exchange for certain "favors" 

[4everwarriors]

I'm figurin' most of us would require pics first before dat kinda proposition, ai na?

[rocket surgeon]

No, but I'd be open to an arrangement whereby you pay my kids' Marquette tuition in exchange for certain "favors" 

 
only if i could write it off which means it will have to be designated as a "SEAT" license-heyOOO!  ein'er ein'er?                                       

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think that at least some people's hesitance to embrace a free market in this industry is colored by the fact that in many instances the "consenting" part is missing on the part of the labor force.

That's one reason.

Another is that marriage can also involve little or no sex, and ultimately ends up that way in the later years.  Still married, but not the sexual benefits.  I would like Benny's POV on that.

Then there is the general issues of stability, disease, etc, etc, which we can probably all argue back and forth on.

I think Benny is right that some people have a marriage that gets to that level of this for that.  However, I believe many don't.

I'm glad I didn't get married with that in mind, it would be a loveless marriage in my opinion.  Sex is important, for health and well being, but shouldn't be the reason for marriage, or to get gifts, keep a roof over one's head, etc

[ChicosBailBonds]

wow!  you're a better man than me...i'd lose my mind!!  as i tell most everyone, i'm glad i had 2 boys b/c i could never raise a girl today-that's just me and i'm being honest about it. i actually have a lot of respect for dads raising girls.  for me however, it's(prostitution) too risky in many ways.  and i'm a pretty laid back guy

14 year old daughter...I'm a wreck about it...especially in today's world.

[Jay Bee]

14 year old daughter...I'm a wreck about it...especially in today's world.

Not always the case, but I think a lot of good parents have a lot of influence and can help the situation...

...but wow.. at this concert this weekend. Lots of what looked to be teens... wearing some... naughty, naughty stuff. I of course didn't look around much, but couldn't avoid seeing some things. Just amazing. Poor parents.

[rocket surgeon]

14 year old daughter...I'm a wreck about it...especially in today's world.

and then there's this beauty...

http://www.wkyc.com/news/multiple-fort-myers-high-schoolers-had-sex-in-school-bathroom/212124786

i wonder how much the goin rate for 20-25 is?  a couple of baker dozens?  this is sick!

[Galway Eagle]

and then there's this beauty...

http://www.wkyc.com/news/multiple-fort-myers-high-schoolers-had-sex-in-school-bathroom/212124786

i wonder how much the goin rate for 20-25 is?  a couple of baker dozens?  this is sick!

You clearly haven't followed up with this story. The girl was kidnapped and spent two years forced into sex trafficking.

[forgetful]

wow!  you're a better man than me...i'd lose my mind!!  as i tell most everyone, i'm glad i had 2 boys b/c i could never raise a girl today-that's just me and i'm being honest about it. i actually have a lot of respect for dads raising girls.  for me however, it's(prostitution) too risky in many ways.  and i'm a pretty laid back guy

I think you are confused on what Polyamory is.  It is a person being in love with multiple people.  There is no money changing hands or benefits, just a more complex loving relationship.  Most definitely not prostitution.

And for those practicing that lifestyle (properly) it is less risky than most teens sex lives.  Also, strangely enough far more commitment (between those involved) and communication than a typical teen relationship these days.

[77ncaachamps]

Non Corpus Delecti

Another comment supporting why we need thumbs up!

[tower912]

I raised a daughter.  21 now.  Working on her masters.   Smart, funny, healthy perspective on life.   She caused me very little stress.  I don't know if that was due to luck or good parenting.   All you can do is your best and then hope.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not always the case, but I think a lot of good parents have a lot of influence and can help the situation...

...but wow.. at this concert this weekend. Lots of what looked to be teens... wearing some... naughty, naughty stuff. I of course didn't look around much, but couldn't avoid seeing some things. Just amazing. Poor parents.

I've seen it where girls left the house in an appropriate attire, then change on the way there to something way overboard.  Good parenting goes far, but only so far. 

[MomofMUltiples]

14 year old daughter...I'm a wreck about it...especially in today's world.

Well, it helps to surround her with four brothers haha.  Not only did they look out for my daughter, but also growing up with brothers, boys really didn't hold much mystery for her. But ultimately, it's about keeping lines of communication open.  I always made it clear that my kids could talk to me about anything without judgment, and call me anytime they needed me to come get them without question.  The boys rarely shared, but my daughter and I had some pretty cool conversations about what was going on in her world.  Fortunately for us, she was also born with an innate sense of logic that usually allowed her to foresee the potential outcomes of her actions. 

It's hard to teach a girl to have a strong sense of self when so much media is bombarding her with messages that she isn't thin enough, or pretty enough, or popular enough, especially in those early teen years.  Fortunately it seems that most girls come out ok on the other side.  Especially if they have parents who care.

[rocket surgeon]

You clearly haven't followed up with this story. The girl was kidnapped and spent two years forced into sex trafficking.

i did hear some things to that effect-those are the risky things we are talking about

[rocket surgeon]

I think you are confused on what Polyamory is.  It is a person being in love with multiple people.  There is no money changing hands or benefits, just a more complex loving relationship.  Most definitely not prostitution.

And for those practicing that lifestyle (properly) it is less risky than most teens sex lives.  Also, strangely enough far more commitment (between those involved) and communication than a typical teen relationship these days.

i'm not confused on what it is, i'm concerned on what it can lead to.  this isn't a normal relationship(s).  just when you think you are in one of these and everyone is cool with it, you find out later, the real discord, sometimes even read about some of these in the newspaper or on the nightly news-no thank you










. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

i did hear some things to that effect-those are the risky things we are talking about

Looks like bad stuff happens when you get boys and girls in the same bathroom.


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