Leon's Frozen Custard Making National News

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because ATC communications are critical for everyone on the frequency, not just the two people who happen to be talking to each other.  When others have a need or right to know, a common language requirement is necessary and acceptable.

However, what the person in front of you is ordering is none of your damn business.

Right for ATC, but the business owner also has a right to demand business be done in a specific language for any number of reasons....safety, efficiency, fraud protection, whatever.  He or she may be wrong in that thinking, but the market place will decide that ultimately. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not illegal, just a poor business idea and a guy being an a$$. 

Edit: Based on his last quote of fighting in an alley I'm standing firm that he's an A$$

I applaud him for standing up.  People calling him racist and bigoted don't understand the labels they are using. 

By the very definition of those words he wouldn't have married a Hispanic, let alone created children.  But people throw those words around a lot, even when they have no idea what they mean.

[#UnleashSean]

Let me ask you, why is air traffic control require English at major international airports?   

Because English is the language of flight. You have to be fluent in English to fly in the United States. This is because all pilots must understand directions being given to a single pilot. This is not the same as custard. If I'm at 3000 feet at a 160 vector and I was told in Spanish that I had to divert to a 280 vector, someone who only spoke English would not understand this command and may alter his flight path to the same as mine. I can't see any issues that could come up because a customer doesn't understand another customers order.

[brandx]

The owner wants to keep his operational process a certain way.

No issue with it. 

Let me ask you, why is air traffic control require English at major international airports?   Simple really.  Now, is selling custard the same as air traffic control?  Of course not, but the point is that this guy wants his operations to conduct business in one language.

What does this have to do with race is my question.  Language defines race?  Since when?

Dig in your heels - every new argument sounds dumber than the previous one.

As a business owner, Leon can do what he wants as long as it's legal. As a good business owner, it is never smart to alienate customers for no reason.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because English is the language of flight. You have to be fluent in English to fly in the United States. This is because all pilots must understand directions being given to a single pilot. This is not the same as custard. If I'm at 3000 feet at a 160 vector and I was told in Spanish that I had to divert to a 280 vector, someone who only spoke English would not understand this command and may alter his flight path to the same as mine. I can't see any issues that could come up because a customer doesn't understand another customers order.

Correct...it is a common language used for safety, efficiency, clarity, etc.  100% agree, that is why I used it as an example.

In no way am I comparing flight safety with taking an order for custard in terms of paramount importance, but the example serves a point in efficiency, how he wants to run his business, etc.  Does he want all communications in a common language to know exactly what is being communicated to his customers, for example?  Can't control that from a supervisory perspective if the language isn't known.  In other industries, safety, etc.

End of the day, his business to run as he sees fit. The marketplace will dictate if that is good or bad. 

[Galway Eagle]

I applaud him for standing up.  People calling him racist and bigoted don't understand the labels they are using. 

By the very definition of those words he wouldn't have married a Hispanic, let alone created children.  But people throw those words around a lot, even when they have no idea what they mean.

Stand up all you want, I'll applaud him for that to. I won't agree with it but it's not technically discriminatory so I'm fine with it.  But saying 'lets settle this the old fashion way in an alley' makes him seem like a buffoon.  I never thought I'd be boxer calling someone who wants to fight an idiot but it is and quite honestly I know plenty of mexican boxers at my old boxing gym up in MKE that I'd hope take him up on that offer if he's so confident. 

[drewm88]

I agree with this. It's just not very smart business practice.

I'm also a little saddened by it, as Leon's is my second-favorite Milwaukee institution.

Ricky's on State #1?

[real chili 83]

Hardly surprising that you would take this view.

I would not expect Leon's to require any employee to speak Spanish. But I find it ridiculous as a business practice to tell an employee who does speak Spanish that he or she shouldn't speak Spanish to a customer who is more comfortable speaking Spanish.

Whether or not it's "racist" or "nationalist" or "xenophobic" or whatever is besides the point to me. It's just stupid.

Nobody - repeat NOBODY - is saying every business should "have someone on staff to take orders for the 311 languages spoken in the USA."

What intelligent people are saying is "Don't forbid your Spanish-speaking employee from speaking Spanish to a Spanish-speaking customer."

Which of course you already knew because, despite it all, you are intelligent.

But to agree with that would keep you from arguing for the sake of arguing ... and from getting outraged at people for being outraged.

Chicos knows better.  He's just having fun poking the "bear" and watching it react.

[StillAWarrior]

If anyone is interested, here's the EEOC's guidance on English-Only rules:

Even where an English-only rule has been adopted for nondiscriminatory reasons, the employer's use of the rule should relate to specific circumstances in its workplace.  An English-only rule is justified by "business necessity" if it is needed for an employer to operate safely or efficiently. The following are some situations in which business necessity would justify an English-only rule:

- For communications with customers, coworkers, or supervisors who only speak English
- In emergencies or other situations in which workers must speak a common language to promote safety
- For cooperative work assignments in which the English-only rule is needed to promote efficiency
- To enable a supervisor who only speaks English to monitor the performance of an employee whose job duties require communication with coworkers or customers


Undoubtedly, the Air Traffic Controller situation would cite the second of these situations.  It's likely that Leon's would cite the fourth, but I'm not sure.  I've dealt with EEOC enough to know that Leon's will probably be dealing with them pretty soon.  And his comments to the press won't help his case at all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I enjoyed the interview today with the owner and his Hispanic wife.

They interviewed Joe Sanchez, as well, who speaks English fluently. 


What will Harry Connick now do?  That is the question America yearns to know the answer to!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

StillaWarrior

#4 was one of the reasons I gave earlier in this thread.  Seems a very valid reason as the owner would want to know what his employees are telling his customers, that is harder to do if multiple languages are being spoken.  Also prevent fraudulent activity, etc.


So will the EEOC require that these businesses hire people that can speak other languages to comply?  That is why I asked the question earlier before the berating started.  I would hope not. 

This is what gets me.  Have customers been denied their custard?  Not served?  Denied?  Of course not.  So exactly what is the outrage here that is happening? 

[real chili 83]

If anyone is interested, here's the EEOC's guidance on English-Only rules:

Even where an English-only rule has been adopted for nondiscriminatory reasons, the employer's use of the rule should relate to specific circumstances in its workplace.  An English-only rule is justified by "business necessity" if it is needed for an employer to operate safely or efficiently. The following are some situations in which business necessity would justify an English-only rule:

- For communications with customers, coworkers, or supervisors who only speak English
- In emergencies or other situations in which workers must speak a common language to promote safety
- For cooperative work assignments in which the English-only rule is needed to promote efficiency
- To enable a supervisor who only speaks English to monitor the performance of an employee whose job duties require communication with coworkers or customers


Undoubtedly, the Air Traffic Controller situation would cite the second of these situations.  It's likely that Leon's would cite the fourth, but I'm not sure.  I've dealt with EEOC enough to know that Leon's will probably be dealing with them pretty soon.  And his comments to the press won't help his case at all.

He will get a visit, but he has the choice to rebuf them. The EEOC loses suits all the time.  They win many too.  Bottom line, if he didn't discipline the employee, technically he is fine. Stupid, but fine.

The moral of this story here is that he just bought his attorney a new BMW.

[StillAWarrior]

StillaWarrior

#4 was one of the reasons I gave earlier in this thread.  Seems a very valid reason as the owner would want to know what his employees are telling his customers, that is harder to do if multiple languages are being spoken.  Also prevent fraudulent activity, etc.


So will the EEOC require that these businesses hire people that can speak other languages to comply?  That is why I asked the question earlier before the berating started.  I would hope not. 

This is what gets me.  Have customers been denied their custard?  Not served?  Denied?  Of course not.  So exactly what is the outrage here that is happening?

I'm aware you mentioned No. 4 - I suspect that is what he'd ultimately argue.  He's not doing himself any favors with his comments to the press that don't necessarily support that.

Honestly, for the reasons you mentioned, I'm not sure the EEOC has anything much to investigate here.  He's not depriving anyone of service.  Where this could be a problem from him is if he has a Hispanic employee who files a discrimination charge.  This incident could be cited as evidence of racial animus.  I'm not saying he would (or should) be liable under that charge (and his family situation certainly would be argued to refute such charges).  But I've seen EEOC go into a major tizzy over much, much less.

[Tortuga94]

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/leons-frozen-custard-drops-controversial-english-only-policy

That didn't last too long.

[GGGG]

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/leons-frozen-custard-drops-controversial-english-only-policy

That didn't last too long.

A brave man.  A stand of 24 hours.  Wonder if Chicos will still send him a love note?

[ChicosBailBonds]

A brave man.  A stand of 24 hours.  Wonder if Chicos will still send him a love note?

That's too bad.  He had nothing to run from.  He did nothing wrong.  He served all customers, did nothing illegal, did not discriminate in any fashion whatsoever.  I hope a Russian guy comes by and demands Russian service....just to show the silliness in all of this.

I still want to know why Mr Sanchez, who spoke perfect English, was bothered he couldn't order in Spanish?

Looks like Kopps for me.

[GGGG]

You said "let the marketplace decide."  It decided.  He realized his business would suffer so he changed the policy.

Now you criticize him?  Huh...

[ChicosBailBonds]

You said "let the marketplace decide."  It decided.  He realized his business would suffer so he changed the policy.

Now you criticize him?  Huh...

He decided, not the marketplace.  Big difference.  The marketplace would decide by how many customers came to his store over the coming weeks. 

Judging by Mr Sanchez, who looks like he is on a 24/7 custard diet, Leon's will be fine.  I suspect, if no change was made, the same would be true because this didn't impact anyone I the 50+ years of the store.  Complete faux rage silliness.

[GGGG]

He decided, not the marketplace.  Big difference.  The marketplace would decide by how many customers came to his store over the coming weeks. 

That makes no sense.  He decided because he knew the marketplace was going to turn against his business because his English only policy was dumb.

I know you will usually go down every illogical path to twist yourself into being right, but this is kinda ridiculous. 

[reinko]

This thread is the highest of comedy.

[Blackhat]

Leon

[MU82]

Complete faux rage silliness.

Yeah, from you!

Compare it to air-traffic control again. That was fun. Maybe next you should compare it to the front lines of war! We'd better never have two Hispanic soldiers speaking to each other in Spanish before they get shot at!

And yes, boycott Leon's the next time you go to Milwaukee. Somebody strong and brave and patriotic and true has to take a stand now that Mr. Leon weaseled out.

'Merica!

[ChicosBailBonds]

That makes no sense.  He decided because he knew the marketplace was going to turn against his business because his English only policy was dumb.

I know you will usually go down every illogical path to twist yourself into being right, but this is kinda ridiculous.

He made that assumption, but he has no idea if that would happen.  See today's article about the Beverly Hills Hotel as proof of total fizzle out of a boycott that didn't work.  Heck, he could make the reverse assumption that some people will now stay away because of his decision. No one knows, all conjecture and you know it.

End of the day, this was silliness personified.  People have been ordering custard there for 50+ years without issue.  Beyond silly.  Fake fauxrage.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, from you!

Compare it to air-traffic control again. That was fun. Maybe next you should compare it to the front lines of war! We'd better never have two Hispanic soldiers speaking to each other in Spanish before they get shot at!

And yes, boycott Leon's the next time you go to Milwaukee. Somebody strong and brave and patriotic and true has to take a stand now that Mr. Leon weaseled out.

'Merica!

Who is calling for a boycott of Leon's? 

I like Kopps better.  I think we had a custard thread here months ago.  My choice.  Leon's is good, but for the taste I'll go with Kopps and a few other options.


Your Hispanic soldiers comparison...weird....why do you assume language is tied to race, when it absolutely isn't.  Maybe you should get a dictionary.  You don't any Hispanics that speak English only?  I know tons.  How about Asians that speak Spanish or German?  Happens all the time. 

Was there something bad going on the last 50+ years?  People denied service?  Not able to order their custard?  That's what I thought.

[MU82]

Who is calling for a boycott of Leon's? 

I like Kopps better.  I think we had a custard thread here months ago.  My choice.  Leon's is good, but for the taste I'll go with Kopps and a few other options.


Your Hispanic soldiers comparison...weird....why do you assume language is tied to race, when it absolutely isn't.  Maybe you should get a dictionary.  You don't any Hispanics that speak English only?  I know tons.  How about Asians that speak Spanish or German?  Happens all the time. 

Was there something bad going on the last 50+ years?  People denied service?  Not able to order their custard?  That's what I thought.

gibberish.