Looks like Native Americans don't mind the Redskins nickname after all

[mayfairskatingrink]

I'll bet Warriors would poll even higher...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

[tower912]

Yeah, this thread is going make it past the 'no politics' rule. 

[mayfairskatingrink]

Yeah, this thread is going make it past the 'no politics' rule.

I thought it was interesting since it's a thorough and well done poll from a respected organization on an issue that many MU fans have been following.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, this thread is going make it past the 'no politics' rule.

What does politics have to do with it Tower?


Another poll reaffirming every other poll on this discussion.   What I like is the people answer for themselves instead of people that aren't Native Americans telling them how they need to act or should think.  Implying ignorance if they don't think the way one group wants them to think.  Strange.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you will recall about a year ago I said several other polls were done and showed the exact same answers as this one....I know for a fact one of them was spiked and never published because the news organization that did it was not happy with the results. 

Good for the Post to publish this.

[rocky_warrior]

I agree this topic shouldn't be doomed to be political (RIP Warriors!), but a betting man would probably put his money on it being locked sooner than later.

[MU82]

These poll results (and earlier ones) seem counterintuitive to me.

But the results are the results. I've given up debating this topic because I apparently have "lost."

It happens.

Unlike Chicos, I can't be right 110% of the time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

These poll results (and earlier ones) seem counterintuitive to me.

But the results are the results. I've given up debating this topic because I apparently have "lost."

It happens.

Unlike Chicos, I can't be right 110% of the time.

For you, when you hit 40% we will let you know.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought it was interesting since it's a thorough and well done poll from a respected organization on an issue that many MU fans have been following.

The fine leadership at MU and elsewhere have told folks how to think on this and many other issues. Their way or the highway, oh and if you don't like their way then you will be served a hot cup of labels as well.  They know best.

[Mutaman]

For you, when you hit 40% we will let you know.

Chico =

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fairly soon mutaman will make a basketball post about a team he doesn't follow....Marquette.  Should be fun.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The fine leadership at MU and elsewhere have told folks how to think on this and many other issues. Their way or the highway, oh and if you don't like their way then you will be served a hot cup of labels as well.  They know best.

With all due respect the leadership of MU did not tell you how to think. 

What MU said was that they could not reconcile their values & organizational mission with a group that was telling them that our prior use of native american imagery offended them.

You can have your own opinion - its fine.  Being upset at the decision is fine too.  Pretending they are oppressing your thinking seems like an over-reach.

[jesmu84]

Ah... the politics board showdowns continue.

Good times, good times.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ah... the politics board showdowns continue.

Good times, good times.

Nothing political about this at all


Good times, good times

[ChicosBailBonds]

With all due respect the leadership of MU did not tell you how to think. 

What MU said was that they could not reconcile their values & organizational mission with a group that was telling them that our prior use of native american imagery offended them.

You can have your own opinion - its fine.  Being upset at the decision is fine too.  Pretending they are oppressing your thinking seems like an over-reach.

With all due respect, when discussion is shut down, when alumni opinions not factored in, when comments that anyone thinking using the imagery is insensitive, bigoted, racial, etc, then they are in a round about way telling one how to think, and if you don't conform more labeling comes. 

In my opinion.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Chico =

When you run out of ammunition in a debate resort to this......

[GGGG]

I'll bet Warriors would poll even higher...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

The question of whether or not someone finds the term Redskins offensive is quite different from whether or not "Native Americans mind the nickname."  Simply put, I can choose to be offended by something or not.  However that doesn't mean it's appropriate for a team nickname or isn't a slur. 

For instance, here is another survey.  http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf

"The Redskins team name is a racial or racist word and symbol.
American Indians were 67 % in agreement, 12 % were neutral and 20 % disagreed with the statement."

It is completely logical to find a term inappropriate or racist, but not be "offended" by it.

[jesmu84]

Nothing political about this at all


Good times, good times

I was referring to the back and forth between you and MU82, mutaman

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sultan

The argument that has been made is that Native Americans are offended, demeaned, etc.  This poll, again, shows it is not the case when asking Native Anericans.  The poll did not ask college professors or others that are so outraged by this issue.

The poll asks multiple questions, there is a link within the link above that has the list of questions asked of these Native Americans.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

With all due respect, when discussion is shut down, when alumni opinions not factored in, when comments that anyone thinking using the imagery is insensitive, bigoted, racial, etc, then they are in a round about way telling one how to think, and if you don't conform more labeling comes. 

In my opinion.

Alumni opinions are just that -- in the 90's they weren't considered - in the 00's they were considered in the decision that Wild had to make with the BOT.

You could have protested freely for the past 20 years with a huge sign for every home basketball game somewhere in the vicinity of the Bradley Center.  That is what a group of people that are opposed to the Redskins have been doing (actually for longer). 

Everything you list above though are external factors due to holding such opinion.  Telling someone what they need to think is different than not liking what people think of you because of your opinion.

[keefe]

Two of my colleagues are thought leaders in Indian Country. One, a Yaqui Indian, was the Under Secretary of Energy for Indian Energy Policy and the other, a Tulalip, was the Senior Advisor to the Secretary of the Interior for Natural Resource Management. They have both said "Redskins" is offensive. The only reason they don't waste time on it is because Indian Country has far more pressing issues.

My Tulalip friend is actually far more put off by Cleveland's "Chief Wahoo."   

[GGGG]

Sultan

The argument that has been made is that Native Americans are offended, demeaned, etc.  This poll, again, shows it is not the case when asking Native Anericans.  The poll did not ask college professors or others that are so outraged by this issue.

What does this have to do with college professors?  Once again...strawmen.

You completely misunderstood what I am saying.  Native Americans can view the term Redskins as being racist, but not be offended by it.  (Which the two polls taken together seem to suggest.)  You can think that a sports team should not have a racist nickname even if that nickname doesn't offend.  (Which is an opinion of mine not reflected in either poll.)

[MU82]

Two of my colleagues are thought leaders in Indian Country. One, a Yaqui Indian, was the Under Secretary of Energy for Indian Energy Policy and the other, a Tulalip, was the Senior Advisor to the Secretary of the Interior for Natural Resource Management. They have both said "Redskins" is offensive. The only reason they don't waste time on it is because Indian Country has far more pressing issues.

My Tulalip friend is actually far more put off by Cleveland's "Chief Wahoo."   

I have a similar experience, Crash. In the early-1990s, I was the moderator on a panel about the use of Indian nicknames and imagery in sports. The Indians who were on the panel and most of those in the audience were definitely not supporters of Paleface Billionaires' right to use Redskins, Chief Wahoo, war chants, etc.

A few of the Whiteys in the room kept insisting that the Indians were "wrong" to be offended. Which, as you might imagine, led to some interesting dialogue.

So it is that personal experience that I have used as the basis for my own judgment on the matter. I try to put myself in others' shoes on all of these kinds of issues.

I have been really surprised by these polls and surveys that find Indians to be not very offended or even honored, though. I can admit that.

[mu-rara]

With all due respect the leadership of MU did not tell you how to think. 

You can have your own opinion - its fine.  Being upset at the decision is fine too.  Pretending they are oppressing your thinking seems like an over-reach.

I thought the Potawatomi gave Marquette a barrel of $$$.  Follow the money.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thought leaders.....





One of the issues with thought leaders is that they often don't represent the will of their constituents.  Elitism, essentially.  This is not limited to this one issue, but many. 

I have no doubt thought leaders are not in favor of this, but that doesn't necessarily make them right, either.  It is their opinion, a minority opinion, within their own constituency.  This is typically where someone of the elite will say "well, they aren't capable of fully understanding, or they have low education, etc.".   Interesting.

Which brings me back to our way or the highway mentality.  Some of these elites don't even respect the will of their own people and denigrate them for not agreeing with their viewpoint on this or other issues.  That is why I pointed out college professors, 99% of them who are not Native American but apparently know how Native Americans are supposed to think in this issue.  No Strawman....if this poll was done with college profs, the outcome would be a direct inverse in my opinion.

I look forward to seeing the team nickname used in scores, stories, etc, moving forward...rather than just called Washington.