New Warrior Katin Reinhardt

[Freeport Warrior]

If JJJ leaves I will be deeply saddened.

Totally agree, but it's not like he is keeping his "exploration of options" a big secret.

[Jay Bee]

Maybe, but at the time we had guys that couldn't shoot, were not great free throw shooters, and Buzz was constantly preaching athletes first.  We were coming off a season in which we were one of the last teams into the dance, were a horrible outside shooting team (around 200th), not a good free throw shooting team...

Wait a second.. I think you just indicated your initial post about wanting more white dudes was in Nov 2010... so, a new season was upon us..

The problems with your commentary re: the season we were "coming off" above include:
"we were one of the last teams into the dance" -- we were a 6 seed. wat
"were a horrible outside shooting team" -- we shot 41.3%, the best we may ever see and good for top 5 in the NATION.
"not a good free throw shooting team" -- we shot 74.3%!!! Good for top 30 in D-I (not that FT% matters)

Our "traditional" indicators were actually wonderful. But, most of us understood what you meant.

[Marcus92]

I don't know why some want to usher Cohen out the door.  He had a disappointing second half of the year but there is a lot to like about his game.  If we play small ball it will be Cohen who is asked to rebound the ball more and create mismatches on the offensive end.  He showed rebounding moxie by grabbing 7 boards against St. Johns and 9 against X.  If Cohen gets stronger, he will excel as an undersized stretch 4.

Agreed. While Sandy was inconsistent and seemed to lose his confidence down the stretch, he did show overall improvement this season. His 3PT% (.355), effective FG% (.536), DR% (13.5), AST% (13.2) and ORtg (108.7) were all higher than his freshman year.

Sandy posted a higher DR% than Jajuan, Duane, Traci or Haanif. I think there's a place for him on the team.

[cheebs09]

Totally agree, but it's not like he is keeping his "exploration of options" a big secret.

I guess I missed this. I haven't heard anything about exploring options other than some rumors on message boards.

[WarriorPride68]

Totally agree, but it's not like he is keeping his "exploration of options" a big secret.

Freeport is on equal footing with BD in my world. When he speaks, I listen.

Can you elaborate more? Thanks!

[Jay Bee]

Agreed. While Sandy was inconsistent and seemed to lose his confidence down the stretch, he did show overall improvement this season. His 3PT% (.355), effective FG% (.536), DR% (13.5), AST% (13.2) and ORtg (108.7) were all higher than his freshman year.

Sandy posted a higher DR% than Jajuan, Duane, Traci or Haanif. I think there's a place for him on the team.

I think it's fair to be OK with his DR% in conference (15%). After that, there are concerns... turnover rate is up, including a shocking 24% in BEast play. His assist% was inflated due to early games against horrible opp's.. vs. quality teams, it was actually down.

As the season progressed, his presence and confidence withered.. he shot 6/24 3FG for 25% in conference... was 12/42 for 29% as a freshman. Neither are good, but it's clear he was in a rough spot this year after a strong nonconference showing.

As a freshman, his % shots in conference play were 16.7%... and he had a usage of 15%.

Again, evidence is in the numbers and was clear in watching him.. the conference season was not pretty for him. He wilted to an 11.0% %Shots guy, with a 12% usage. Non-factor except to help a little on the d-boards (and the turnovers.. eeek).

I just can't get on board with the idea of 'he showed improvement' when you really consider how he played against conference opp's and the reduction in his offensive involvement.

[Marcus92]

I think it's fair to be OK with his DR% in conference (15%). After that, there are concerns... turnover rate is up, including a shocking 24% in BEast play. His assist% was inflated due to early games against horrible opp's.. vs. quality teams, it was actually down.

As the season progressed, his presence and confidence withered.. he shot 6/24 3FG for 25% in conference... was 12/42 for 29% as a freshman. Neither are good, but it's clear he was in a rough spot this year after a strong nonconference showing.

As a freshman, his % shots in conference play were 16.7%... and he had a usage of 15%.

Again, evidence is in the numbers and was clear in watching him.. the conference season was not pretty for him. He wilted to an 11.0% %Shots guy, with a 12% usage. Non-factor except to help a little on the d-boards (and the turnovers.. eeek).

I just can't get on board with the idea of 'he showed improvement' when you really consider how he played against conference opp's and the reduction in his offensive involvement.

All good points. The only one I'd possibly dispute is that turnovers were an issue with the entire team, top to bottom — I don't think you call out Sandy alone for this. Hannif, Duane, Traci and Jajuan all need to improve in that regard.

If he's going to be part of the team and main rotation in 2016-17, Sandy will need to step up and play like an upperclassman.

I don't ever see him being one of our top scorers. But he may not have to be. There's a place on every team for dependable role players who can come off the bench with high energy, defend multiple positions and rebound. Seems like Sandy is capable of that, especially if we're playing more 4-guard lineups. We'll just have to see.

[Golden Avalanche]

We're a bottom third team and people are up in arms worried about competition for playing time. Adding a double digit scorer from the bench off an NCAA team would seem to be a talent upgrade the program could use. Weird there's so much fretting.

[Jay Bee]

All good points. The only one I'd possibly dispute is that turnovers were an issue with the entire team, top to bottom — I don't think you call out Sandy alone for this. Hannif, Duane, Traci and Jajuan all need to improve in that regard.

Not calling out Sandy alone for it -- was calling out that his turnovers trend was awful when comparing to his freshman year or early in the season. (Again, the topic was "Sandy showed improvement.)

Haanif (24.4%; 25.0% in conf) and Traci (29.1%; 28.4% in conf) absolutely need to improve from their freshman years. Duane and JjJ are borderline OK where they are at, but some improvement would be great. Duane was at 18.5% for the year, and essentially the same against conference foes. JjJ improved from 19.3% a year ago to 17.9%, but coughed it up too often in conference.

If Sandy can improve a little on the boards, knock down some timely shots, and reduce the turnovers, he'll be fine.

[Marcus92]

Looked up the in-conference turnover percentages for our main rotation:

Traci   28.8 TO%
Sandy   21.9
Haanif   21.4
Jajuan   17.9
Duane   15.8
Luke   15.4
Henry   12.5

My understanding is that turnover rate is the 2nd most important of the four factors. From a team standpoint, Nova and Xavier were at 14.3% and 14.8%, respectively, for the season. Marquette committed turnovers on 17.2% of all possessions — in the bottom 20th percentile of all NCAA teams. Only DePaul was worse in the Big East.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/turnover-pct

That's by no means a defense of Sandy. Just reinforces how much MU needs to improve in this critical area.

[Jay Bee]

Looked up the in-conference turnover percentages for our main rotation:

Traci   28.8 TO%
Sandy   21.9
Haanif   21.4
Jajuan   17.9
Duane   15.8
Luke   15.4
Henry   12.5

My understanding is that turnover rate is the 2nd most important of the four factors. From a team standpoint, Nova and Xavier were at 14.3% and 14.8%, respectively, for the season. Marquette committed turnovers on 17.2% of all possessions — in the bottom 20th percentile of all NCAA teams. Only DePaul was worse in the Big East.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/turnover-pct

That's by no means a defense of Sandy. Just reinforces how much MU needs to improve in this critical area.

Oh dear. Those numbers are brutal (e.g., wrong).

The 17.2% isn't based on all possessions... it was higher than that.

And those player percentages are all types of hosed. Bad source.

Story is still the same - MU turned it over a lot.  But you're misreading information.

[bilsu]

Carter, Cheatham, Johnson and Cohen all posted higher DR% than Reinhardt last season. Cohen is the best defensive rebounder by that measure, followed by Johnson.

The trouble with those statistics is that Cohen was on an average rebounding team. I am also assuming most of his rebounds were in non-conference games. I am not sure what other rebounders Reinhardt was surrounded with. Pointing out that Rowsey had a better rebounding average playing in a low mid-major conference vs. Reinhardt who played in the Pac 12 is also a somewhat suspect statistic.

[Marcus92]

Oh dear. Those numbers are brutal (e.g., wrong).

The 17.2% isn't based on all possessions... it was higher than that.

And those player percentages are all types of hosed. Bad source.

Story is still the same - MU turned it over a lot.  But you're misreading information.

Depending on the limited information I can find on the net. Not sure how the teamrankings site would get something as simple as turnover percentage wrong. The in-conference player stats come from basketball-reference.com — which I always thought was a reliable source.

Any good links you can share for stats/reference would be appreciated.

[NickelDimer]

Totally agree, but it's not like he is keeping his "exploration of options" a big secret.

Seriously? Wow. Would be a HUGE blow

[Jay Bee]

Depending on the limited information I can find on the net. Not sure how the teamrankings site would get something as simple as turnover percentage wrong. The in-conference player stats come from basketball-reference.com — which I always thought was a reliable source.

Any good links you can share for stats/reference would be appreciated.

Your link and the 17.2% you quoted was from a page on TeamRankings that was not turnovers per possession..

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Totally agree, but it's not like he is keeping his "exploration of options" a big secret.

Please expand on this.

Happy to see Reinhardt pick MU. Nice player. For some reason, I'm not that excited though - We still need a big in the worst way. Hopefully it is Wally that is gone - seems like a great guy and all, but he's of least value to the future of MU hoops.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Our "traditional" indicators were actually wonderful. But, most of us understood what you meant.

I wrote exactly what I meant back then....read the thread.  It could not have been more crystal clear. 

The shooting percentages, etc were from the 2010-11 team.  I wrote the comment in Nov of 2010, which is part of the 2010-11 season.  You are correct, I should not have said the season we were coming off, I should have said the season we were in at the time I made the statement, which was one of a poor shooting team...34% from the arc, avg at best FT shooting team, etc.   

[GGGG]

I wrote exactly what I meant back then....read the thread.  It could not have been more crystal clear. 

The shooting percentages, etc were from the 2010-11 team.  I wrote the comment in Nov of 2010, which is part of the 2010-11 season.  You are correct, I should not have said the season we were coming off, I should have said the season we were in at the time I made the statement, which was one of a poor shooting team...34% from the arc, avg at best FT shooting team, etc.   

That made the S16...and then another...and then the E8.

But Buzz didn't recruit enough kids who were basketball players first and lacked fundamentals. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

At the time you posted it we were just tipping off a season where we ended up making a Sweet 16....followed by another Sweet 16....followed by a BE championship and an Elite 8.

At the time you posted it, Buzz put together a roster that currently has two guys who play significant roles on NBA teams, one of whom would become the BE POY and another that would become an NBA All-Star.  Three others eventually would get time on NBA teams.

Your comments were ridiculous at the time.  They are downright laughable in retrospect.

When I posted it, was the beginning of a season in which we lost 15 games and ended up being one of the last teams into the dance, per Gene Smith, the NCAA committee chairman.  That was a rough year, we were fortunate to get a bid and we did some damage in the tournament before losing badly to UNC.  If anything, I was dead on right about that team at the time and how poorly we did the fundamentals....like shooting the basketball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That made the S16...and then another...and then the E8.

But Buzz didn't recruit enough kids who were basketball players first and lacked fundamentals. 

NCAA tournament is a crap shoot.  Syracuse didn't belong in the NCAA tournament this year, yet made the Final Four.  It happens.   We were one of the last teams into the dance that year, primarily because we couldn't shoot very well from deep (34%) or from the free throw line.

My point was then that he was trying to out athlete everyone, and we needed a few more "traditional" basketball players.  Guys that could make a shot....he didn't value those folks like Scott Christopherson and the like, good basketball players, good shooters, smart with the ball.   I think eventually he tried to correct that, but it was telling when he would say publicly we're going to out athlete folks.  That's great, until you run into a really heady team that can contain that and will back door you to death, make you play patient defense and essentially kill you with fundamentals.

[Marcus92]

Your link and the 17.2% you quoted was from a page on TeamRankings that was not turnovers per possession.

I'm honestly not sure what the difference is between turnovers per possession and turnovers per offensive play. Isn't an offensive play the same as a possession? Or is the TeamRankings site talking about turnovers per offensive trip (which could include multiple possessions if you count offensive rebounds)?

I'm no statistician, obviously. But I try to at least understand the basics when it comes to offensive and defensive efficiency.

[Marcus92]

And those player percentages are all types of hosed. Bad source.

Is basketball-reference.com a bad source? Or am I misreading the player in-conference TO% numbers?

Not trying to be antagonistic. I appreciate the analytical perspective and insight found here. Just want to make sure that any stats I cite are accurate and relevant.

[GGGG]

My point was then that he was trying to out athlete everyone, and we needed a few more "traditional" basketball players.  Guys that could make a shot....he didn't value those folks like Scott Christopherson and the like, good basketball players, good shooters, smart with the ball.   I think eventually he tried to correct that, but it was telling when he would say publicly we're going to out athlete folks.  That's great, until you run into a really heady team that can contain that and will back door you to death, make you play patient defense and essentially kill you with fundamentals.

No.

The point is that given Buzz's success since your statement was made, your statement was laughable.  If you would have simply said "I wish we had better shooters."  I would agree with you.  I, and many other people here, said the same thing.

But that's not what you said.  You said "basketball player, not an athlete first.  that can pass, shoot, play defense, make free throws, high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally sound....."  Buzz recruited basketball players.  They could pass.  Play defense.  Had a high basketball IQ.  Fundamentally they were quite sounds.  Furthermore their shooting and FT shooting improved.

You managed to double down and make your initial point even more stupid.

[#UnleashSean]

before losing badly to UNC.  If anything, I was dead on right about that team at the time and how poorly we did the fundamentals....like shooting the basketball.

I don't remember losing badly to UNC. All I remember about that game is Rob Frozena hitting the buzzer beater. I thought he won it for us.

[mu03eng]

Make no mistake - I value your participation here. I might not always agree with you, Sultan, Chick, x, forgetful, 82, etc but I damned sure respect what you guys and gal add to the Scoop narrative.

Hell, if we all agreed on everything there would be nothing to post about.

The only guy I don't like is Navy because, well, he's a Rhino puke. 'Nuff said I should think.

Foxtrot Oscar Zoomie