Tourney Credits

[Coleman]

Any idea what MU's haul is from this year's tourney? Are credits applied equally amongst all teams, or do Creighton, Butler, and Xavier get less as part of their agreement joining? I know credits are based on games played, do we get something extra for Nova winning?

If someone really feels like doing some work, would be cool to see a table of all tourney credits earned and pay schedule since we began as the 10 team Big East in 2013. I thought I remembered the credits paying out over multiple years.

[MU86NC]

http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/04/01/ncaa-mens-basketball-tournament-this-years-unit-payouts-after/

This should give you a good idea...

[brewcity77]

I really miss seeing us on that most valuable teams list.

[Coleman]

Also, did those leaving the old Big East give up tourney credits? We might still be accruing from Louisville, UConn, Syracuse, etc.

Would love to see someone do a deep dive into all of this.

[Eldon]

IIRC, C-X-B don't get any cut of tourney shares earned prior to their joining the conference (2013), but starting in 2014, everyone gets the same cut of shares earned by the conference.

That said, before the AAC/BE split, Big East split tourney revenue 50-50 between the school that earned the shares and the remaining conference members, so if that still holds true, Villanova's run this year to the championship (you don't get more for winning, so UNC earned six shares just as Nova did) will net approx. $9.84M over the next six years, with half going to Nova and half going to the other 9 schools, i.e. Nova's run alone will result in $547,000 paid to MU over the next six years.

EDIT: My understanding is that the BE no longer splits shares 50-50, but rather, the conference takes 100% of the tourney shares, makes fixed payouts to schools who qualified for the tournament (depending on how far they advanced) from those shares, and distributes the rest to the conference.  I'm not sure what the scale is, but I've heard it comes out to something where the team basically ends up with 30-35% of its own shares.  So in the current example, Villanova's run is worth in the neighborhood of $3.4M to Nova and $710k to MU (over the next six years).

[Johnny B]

Marquette doesn't deserve anything. play like garbage shouldn't mean take from good teams

[Herman Cain]

The divorce settlement was that the AAC( old Big East teams )kept the previous credits and the lousy TV contract with ESPN. The C7 plus 3 new Big East teams got the name , the FOX contract and the  MSG venue for the BET.

Our league objective is to get the biggest percentage of our teams in the tournament and have them go the farthest they can.  Each game played is worth approximately 250,000 per year for 6 years to the conference. So the conference earned 13 credits this year so a little over 3 million a year from this year.

I don't know how much the conference takes out for themselves. 

[TallTitan34]

Marquette doesn't deserve anything. play like garbage shouldn't mean take from good teams

You realize during our Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight runs other teams got the same from us.

The only team who deserves nothing is DePaul.

[Coleman]

Marquette doesn't deserve anything. play like garbage shouldn't mean take from good teams

Plenty of years we carried Providence, and other Big East laggards. I think this is a fair and reasonable way to do this. In fact, the shares from our 3-peat Sweet 16 run (+ Elite 8) are still paying out, since they pay over 6 years.

Other teams like DePaul are far worse drains on the conference.

[brewcity77]

Plenty of years we carried Providence, and other Big East laggards. I think this is a fair and reasonable way to do this. In fact, the shares from our 3-peat Sweet 16 run (+ Elite 8) are still paying out, since they pay over 6 years.

Other teams like DePaul are far worse drains on the conference.

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

[Coleman]

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

Yeah, that does suck. Still. MU has carried the weight plenty.

[MUMountin]

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

Wait, we forfeited our rights to our own credits, or allowed the departing teams to take the credits they earned with them?  I thought it was the latter.

Did Butler, X, or Creighton bring any of their own credits with them, or did they remain in the Horizon/A10/MVC?

[PaintTouches]

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

Incorrect. I thought so too, but the Big East did not give up those credits.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

I'm not 100% sure....but I'm 95% sure this is incorrect.

[kryza]

I'm not 100% sure....but I'm 95% sure this is incorrect.

The AAC got like 92% of the $110 million left in the Big East fund. The current Big East kept $10 million.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The AAC got like 92% of the $110 million left in the Big East fund. The current Big East kept $10 million.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report

But I'm pretty sure what MUMontin said is correct. The AAC got to keep what Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Pitt, etc earned. But the BEast got to keep what the Catholic 7 earned. So yes, the AAC got the majority of the BEast credits, but Brew's comment was that Marquette's tournament credits went to the AAC.

[Litehouse]

But I'm pretty sure what MUMontin said is correct. The AAC got to keep what Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Pitt, etc earned. But the BEast got to keep what the Catholic 7 earned. So yes, the AAC got the majority of the BEast credits, but Brew's comment was that Marquette's tournament credits went to the AAC.

Any source for this?  I always thought the AAC got to keep all the credits as well.

Also, does anyone know if Xavier, Butler and Creighton get full shares immediately?  or take a reduced share for the first few years?

[kryza]

Any source for this?  I always thought the AAC got to keep all the credits as well.

Yes, a source would be great. I wrote a good chunk of the wikipedia articles on the big east realignment and haven't seen it mentioned that the catholic 7 kept their tourney credits in any source I've read. However, I'd love to correct the articles if that is the case.

[Benny B]

The AAC got like 92% of the $110 million left in the Big East fund. The current Big East kept $10 million.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report

Let's be clear here:

First: The $110 million in the Big East fund are exit fees paid to the conference.  This is NOT tourney shares.

Second: The article reported that the C-7 kept their tourney shares and the departing (future) AAC schools kept theirs.  This is not part of the aforementioned $110M.

Both of these points are mentioned in the article.

[Benny B]

They are still paying out...to the AAC. We gave up our rights to tourney credits in the divorce.

This is incorrect.  This is what a Forbes article (or some other source) originally reported, but it is - to my knowledge - completely untrue. 

The only thing the C7 gave up was their share of exit fees, which because the C7 was, technically, exiting the conference themselves, made perfect sense to both sides.

[Spotcheck Billy]

jeez folks are already trying to spend the money Nova earned last night

[Benny B]

Any source for this?  I always thought the AAC got to keep all the credits as well.

Also, does anyone know if Xavier, Butler and Creighton get full shares immediately?  or take a reduced share for the first few years?

As mentioned, X-B-C will not participate in any shares earned by the C7 prior to the 2014 tournament.  Beginning with the shares earned in 2014, it is my understanding that all members receive an equal cut of the general share pool after distributions are paid to the qualifying teams (i.e. those who earned the shares).  So X-B-C get a reduced amount relative to the other C7 schools for the first six years (because their post-2014 shares are diluted by the C7's pre-2014 shares) but get an equal cut thereafter.

Not sure how Creighton's situation played out, but Xavier and Butler both forfeited their pre-2014 shares when they left the A-10.  They literally arrived in 2013 with nothing in that regard.  i.e. do the math and Butler forfeited millions of dollars (from their max-share runs in 2010-2011) to join the BE.

For further reading on this topic, please see:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36697.0
and
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32345.0
and
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=25546

I haven't kept up my spreadsheet, but maybe some day I'll get enough motivation to figure it out again; however, now that MU is mostly a taker and not a give, don't hold your breath.

[kryza]

Let's be clear here:

First: The $110 million in the Big East fund are exit fees paid to the conference.  This is NOT tourney shares.

Second: The article reported that the C-7 kept their tourney shares and the departing (future) AAC schools kept theirs.  This is not part of the aforementioned $110M.

Both of these points are mentioned in the article.

Neither points are mentioned in the article, unless I'm going totally senile.

The 110 million is not just exit fees, it also includes the tournament shares; "The Big East's stash of cash has built up in recent years through a combination of exit fees, entry fees and money the league's members earned in the NCAA men's basketball tournament."

[Benny B]

Neither points are mentioned in the article, unless I'm going totally senile.

The 110 million is not just exit fees, it also includes the tournament shares; "The Big East's stash of cash has built up in recent years through a combination of exit fees, entry fees and money the league's members earned in the NCAA men's basketball tournament."

Paragraph #4

Of the $110 million in exit fees, holdover members Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida will get the biggest share...

Paragraph #9

As part of the Catholic 7 schools' exit agreement with the Big East, the schools will keep all of their NCAA tournament units, sources told McMurphy.

I see that #4 contradicts the later paragraph you quoted, but tourney share revenue doesn't go into any pot that carries over from year to year... it is distributed to the schools.  Maybe they were talking about just the shares yet to be paid out for 2013, in which case, the $10M would seem to cover that.

[Coleman]

Not sure how Creighton's situation played out, but Xavier and Butler both forfeited their pre-2014 shares when they left the A-10.  They literally arrived in 2013 with nothing in that regard.  i.e. do the math and Butler forfeited millions of dollars (from their max-share runs in 2010-2011) to join the BE.

All true but I'm sure they more than made up for it with the Big East's FS1 contract.