If you can't compete, flee the Big East

[NYWarrior]

This thread pretty much embodies the state of DePaul basketball ...... if you can't compete, flee the Big East

http://depaul.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2125&tid=108517949&mid=108517949&sid=1143&style=2

Being uncompetitive for a decade or so will do that to a program.

Kudos to MU for prioritizing hoops and having the guts to play with the big boys

[MR.HAYWARD]

I thought Depaul was supose to be good this year but i thought wrong

[tomcrean4pres]

Why would we ever want to join a league with UWM, and Wright State?!?! that conference would suck compared to where we are... I think MU is only going to move up from there no way would they join a conference like that!

[NCMUFan]

Sounds like a couple frustrated DePaul fans.  I thought they were on the verge of busting into respectability.  They beat us last year and from what I was hearing had a decent front court.  Also the rivalry between DePaul would be missed.  Reminiscing who wouldn't die to have Ray Meyers team of Mark Aguire and Terry Cummings.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Those are some frustrated fans.

I just hope and pray that DePaul never gets its act together. I mean, I would like a good rivalry... but they could be a pretty major force if they ever get it figured out.

MU has built itself up so it has some advantages that DePaul doesn't have... but 10 years ago DePaul was better off than MU... so I hope they never quite get their act together otherwise we may not be able to grab guys like McNeal, Acker and the rest of the Chicago players that we have been able to get (blankson, wade, chapman, etc.).

I know the arena sucks and it's way too far from campus... but if they start winning, people/demand will figure out ways to get there and make it fun. It'll never be a great situation, but winning would compensate for a lot of that.

I remember when the Bradley Center was considered a crappy environment and too far from campus (students didn't want to get up on Saturday mornings to ride the bus down there)... seems kind of silly now.

DePaul could have a turn-around like MU if they are able to get the right people involved (coaching, administration, alumni) and then catch some luck (that seemed to be MU's formula).

Every year that DePaul loses and MU keeps winning is a very good thing. I like competition, but not right in our backyard.

[NavinRJohnson]

I like Jerry Wainwright, but he was not the right hire for that job.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I actually think before the Wainwright hire they made the wrong AD hire. They have never had a decent AD there. Ever. From the day he stopped on campus Bradshaw thought he was bigger than DePaul and I believe their current AD, Ponsetto, is a little too home-spun for her own good. They need a Cords, no-nonsese type.

They also should have done everything within reason to keep Dave Letaio (sp?) around.

I also like Wainwright, but they're going to need to cut bait with him and hire a young guy with strong local ties -- like a Chris Collins.

[Avenue Commons]

I like Jerry Wainwright, but he was not the right hire for that job.

I couldn't agree more. I heard Wainwright on Mike North last week and he sounds like a really good guy who cares about his kids a lot. One caller pointed out that they had two players (Wilson Chandler and Sammy Mejia) get drafted last year and they still weren't good. Wainwright answered with some vague thing about everyone on a team has to do their job and maybe this says something about those players and not the team and blah, blah, blah. Look at the players that have come out of there in the past few years: Bobby Simmons, Quentin Richardson, Stephen Hunter, Wilson Chandler, Sammy Mejia and they had Eddy Curry and Dorrell Wright signed to LOIs before they went to the NBA. It's like they have success in their grasp and then just let it go. It's too bad. I love the DePaul vs. Marquette rivalry, but its not that fun when its not competitive.

[Avenue Commons]

I actually think before the Wainwright hire they made the wrong AD hire. They have never had a decent AD there. Ever. From the day he stopped on campus Bradshaw thought he was bigger than DePaul and I believe their current AD, Ponsetto, is a little too home-spun for her own good. They need a Cords, no-nonsese type.

They also should have done everything within reason to keep Dave Letaio (sp?) around.

I also like Wainwright, but they're going to need to cut bait with him and hire a young guy with strong local ties -- like a Chris Collins.

Pulling Chris Collins away from Duke would be a huge coup for DePaul. Collins seems to have some competition from Wojokowski (sp?) for the job when Coach K retires. Collins is 34-35 years old now and would be ready for a job like DePaul's. It's a no brainer to me. 

[MilTown]

I think Loyola tried to hire Collins a couple of years ago and he passed. I think a team in a major conference such as the Big East would want to hire a coach with previous head coaching experience. Right now, Collins doesn't have that. I think DePaul should look to a young mid major coach if they decide to go a different direction. How about Lowery from SIU?? I think he would be a better target than Chris Collins.

[NYWarrior]

I think Loyola tried to hire Collins a couple of years ago and he passed. I think a team in a major conference such as the Big East would want to hire a coach with previous head coaching experience. Right now, Collins doesn't have that. I think DePaul should look to a young mid major coach if they decide to go a different direction. How about Lowery from SIU?? I think he would be a better target than Chris Collins.

Right now, SIU is a better job than DPU.   Until DePaul commits to invest big-time in the hoops program, it'll be hard to reel in a big fish

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I think Loyola tried to hire Collins a couple of years ago and he passed. I think a team in a major conference such as the Big East would want to hire a coach with previous head coaching experience. Right now, Collins doesn't have that. I think DePaul should look to a young mid major coach if they decide to go a different direction. How about Lowery from SIU?? I think he would be a better target than Chris Collins.

Right now, SIU is a better job than DPU.   Until DePaul commits to invest big-time in the hoops program, it'll be hard to reel in a big fish

You can't honestly believe that. DePaul is a great job. In fact, I think they sold themselves short when they hired Wainwright. People over use the term "sleeping giant" as it pertains to college jobs, but the two programs that are truly sleeping giants are DePaul and St. John's for obvious reasons.

[NYWarrior]

You can't honestly believe that. DePaul is a great job. In fact, I think they sold themselves short when they hired Wainwright. People over use the term "sleeping giant" as it pertains to college jobs, but the two programs that are truly sleeping giants are DePaul and St. John's for obvious reasons.

Yes, I do believe that right now, SIU is a better job than DPU.  Right now.

It should not be that way but until DePaul commits to invest big-time in the hoops program -- they'll remain in hibernation.

[AlumKCof93]

As someone who grew up in Chicago, I used to love DePaul.  But then DePaul got some kids in there that were more interested in fighting than they were in playing.  Then they stopped showing the games on WGN and had an AD who was more concerned about image than anything else.  Meanwhile, they had the whole stadium issue to deal with and instead of dealing with it, they've just let the program become a joke.

IMO, the program will not recover until they build a new stadium that's close to campus.  Until then, they will continue to change coaches but even if they a hire a good one like Dave Leitou, those coaches will leave for greener pastures.  There is a lack of commitment to the program and its a shame b/c DePaul is a good school that has a lot going for it but not enough to overcome the past 20 years when goofballs like Pat Kennedy were running it.  While Wainwright has not had much success, at least he's not making a mockery of the program like Kennedy did.

And Eddy Curry was never going to play there.  He signed a LOI, but he was never going to college.  DePaul wanted him to sign the LOI just so they could say they were so close to being a great team.  It was never going to happen.

[MilTown]

Southern Illinois has seen a resurgence over the past few years, but its hard for me to say that SIU is a better job compared to DePaul. I say this strictly because of the Big East, geography, history and tradition, and television. Losing Laetio was a major hit for DePaul, but I think they can still recover if they find the right coach. Maybe an ex player might fit the bill. Tom Kleindschmidt, where are you??

SIU can attribute their success to Lowery and Bruce Webber. They were lucky to replace Webber with another dynamic coach in Lowery. When Lowery leaves, and yes he will leave, I expect SIU to fall back into the ranks of the MVC. Look at UWM as an example. When Pearl left, the program has taken a hit.

The stadium issue is somewhat of an issue for DePaul, but I think its blown way out of proportion. If you start winning, fans will come. I don't think an on campus stadium would do anything but throw DePaul deeper into financial troubles. 

[77fan88warrior]

Curry signed the LOI so that the recruiters would leave him alone. He knew he was going pro and he wanted them off his back. He was the last player to sign with DePaul that year and it would have put  them one scholarship over available scholarships. No need to inform me of MU situation last year and this year.
DePaul was hurt bad when Leitao left and they should have ponied up to keep him.  That is assuming he wanted to stay. I also believe Leitao ultimately wants the UCONN job and I think it would be easier to change schools if they are not in the same conference.
DePaul has a stadium issue but they competed for years out of there. They played some of their games at the United Center for a while but that didn't help either. They need a good coach to stabilize their program. I know people think Crean is overpaid but I think Marquette learned their lesson after O'Neill left.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Curry signed the LOI so that the recruiters would leave him alone. He knew he was going pro and he wanted them off his back. He was the last player to sign with DePaul that year and it would have put  them one scholarship over available scholarships. No need to inform me of MU situation last year and this year.
DePaul was hurt bad when Leitao left and they should have ponied up to keep him.  That is assuming he wanted to stay. I also believe Leitao ultimately wants the UCONN job and I think it would be easier to change schools if they are not in the same conference.
DePaul has a stadium issue but they competed for years out of there. They played some of their games at the United Center for a while but that didn't help either. They need a good coach to stabilize their program. I know people think Crean is overpaid but I think Marquette learned their lesson after O'Neill left.

I agree...

I know people here have b*tched about Crean's salary, but MU could easily be in the same boat as DePaul right now. Granted, MU has made a significant commitment to hoops through building the infrastructure and fanbase to be a big time program... but let's face it, 10 years ago MU was worse off than DePaul... and if MU had lost Crean like DePaul lost Leito, MU might be in the same position. MU is a very good program, but so was DePaul until they lost Q, Kennedy (terrible coach, great players) and Leito.

MU has gotten the right people in the right places (Cords, Wild, Crean), gotten support from key alumni and boosters with deep pockets and caught lightning in a bottle with DWade.

All of those things put together launched MU to another level. If one of those things were out of place, there is no telling what would've happened.

DePaul had a shot at doing the same thing with Q, but they didn't have the right AD, Coach, and infrastructural commitment to make it work long-term. Leito might have been the right coach, but they still didn't have the right commitment from the alumni and AD to pay him, and he didn't have a superstar player (yet). 

There are a lot of things in play at private schools that depend on hoops. Needless to say, IF/WHEN DePaul gets it together, they will be formidable.

The question is: Who/when will they figure it out?

[Avenue Commons]

Curry signed the LOI so that the recruiters would leave him alone. He knew he was going pro and he wanted them off his back. He was the last player to sign with DePaul that year and it would have put  them one scholarship over available scholarships. No need to inform me of MU situation last year and this year.
DePaul was hurt bad when Leitao left and they should have ponied up to keep him.  That is assuming he wanted to stay. I also believe Leitao ultimately wants the UCONN job and I think it would be easier to change schools if they are not in the same conference.
DePaul has a stadium issue but they competed for years out of there. They played some of their games at the United Center for a while but that didn't help either. They need a good coach to stabilize their program. I know people think Crean is overpaid but I think Marquette learned their lesson after O'Neill left.

I agree...

I know people here have b*tched about Crean's salary, but MU could easily be in the same boat as DePaul right now. Granted, MU has made a significant commitment to hoops through building the infrastructure and fanbase to be a big time program... but let's face it, 10 years ago MU was worse off than DePaul... and if MU had lost Crean like DePaul lost Leito, MU might be in the same position. MU is a very good program, but so was DePaul until they lost Q, Kennedy (terrible coach, great players) and Leito.

MU has gotten the right people in the right places (Cords, Wild, Crean), gotten support from key alumni and boosters with deep pockets and caught lightning in a bottle with DWade.

All of those things put together launched MU to another level. If one of those things were out of place, there is no telling what would've happened.

DePaul had a shot at doing the same thing with Q, but they didn't have the right AD, Coach, and infrastructural commitment to make it work long-term. Leito might have been the right coach, but they still didn't have the right commitment from the alumni and AD to pay him, and he didn't have a superstar player (yet). 

There are a lot of things in play at private schools that depend on hoops. Needless to say, IF/WHEN DePaul gets it together, they will be formidable.

The question is: Who/when will they figure it out?

Makes one wonder, "What If Dwyane Wade had gone to DePaul instead of Marquette?" I know DePaul was one of his choices. Any answer would be speculation, and I'd like to think Dwyane was in a perfect situation at MU, but what if he had similarly blossomed at DePaul and we never had him? Interesting question.

There are three key events in the past decade that have gotten Marquette basketball to where it is today: 1) The hiring of Tom Crean; 2) The "Dwyane Wade Effect" including the 2003 Final4; and 3) the Al McGuire Center.

[MilTown]

In total agreement about the T Crean, Wade, and McGuire center. I think you can add Big East to that list as well. Support of the program from the Marquette family is the final piece. Its like a giant snowball that keeps rolling. The blue print is there for DePaul. Now they just have to implement it. I think the most important thing is to hire a dynamic coach who is interested in building a program. I like Wainwright as an x's and o's guy, but I don't think he is a program builder at this point in his carreer. They really need to consider rolling the dice on the best young mid major coach out there.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Over the years, DePaul has been a shining example of the adage that great players don't equal great teams. Imagine what we as MU fans would be doing if we had a player like Wilson Chandler in the program? And then pair him with Sammy Meijia and I'm pretty sure most coaches would get somewhere with those two.

Everyone always talks about Wade taking MU to the Final Four. It's bullshit. MU took Wade to the Final Four. That was an excellent, excellent basketball team that featured the would-be greatest scorer in our program's history and two specialists that don't just fall off a tree. Teams all around the country have seen great players achieve little team success and we've seen it up close in Lincoln Park. Landing the big fish is nice but you better have the school of fish around him to expect championships.

[MilTown]

I thought DePaul actually had a nice year last year. The selection committee really shafted them. Remember Chandler only played 2 years with Mejia. If Chandler is back this year, DePaul would be a much better team.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Over the years, DePaul has been a shining example of the adage that great players don't equal great teams. Imagine what we as MU fans would be doing if we had a player like Wilson Chandler in the program? And then pair him with Sammy Meijia and I'm pretty sure most coaches would get somewhere with those two.

Everyone always talks about Wade taking MU to the Final Four. It's bullcrap. MU took Wade to the Final Four. That was an excellent, excellent basketball team that featured the would-be greatest scorer in our program's history and two specialists that don't just fall off a tree. Teams all around the country have seen great players achieve little team success and we've seen it up close in Lincoln Park. Landing the big fish is nice but you better have the school of fish around him to expect championships.

The pieces to the current puzzle are Al, Raymonds, (for giving MU the great tradition), Wild, Cords, Crean, Dwyane, Diener, Novak, The Al, Big East, 3 amigos, etc. etc.

Put them together however you want, but they are all vital to the success that MU is having, and without one of them, nobody knows where MU would be. The amount of credit that each deserves isn't equal, but they all played a key part.

DePaul could do something similar, but they will need good people who can make some tough decisions and a little bit of luck as well.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

double post.

sorry

[Final Four or Bust]

I would argue that Kevin O'Neill is the biggest reason for the program's current status -- before he took over we were literally at the bottom, and in a couple of years he took us to the Sweet Sixteen with a BIG win over Kentucky.  He set us back on the winning track which Deane continued and Crean built upon.  Crean doesn't take this job without O'Neill pulling out of the doldrums.

[Avenue Commons]

I would argue that Kevin O'Neill is the biggest reason for the program's current status -- before he took over we were literally at the bottom, and in a couple of years he took us to the Sweet Sixteen with a BIG win over Kentucky.  He set us back on the winning track which Deane continued and Crean built upon.  Crean doesn't take this job without O'Neill pulling out of the doldrums.

That's a good point, but KO then LEFT the program and it ultimately fell into shambles with Deane and then TC had to build it back up. KO's time at Marquette (as well as Deane's early years with KO's players) has been overshadowed by the success of the Wade/Diener years, but you're right that the program was back to a "healthy" state from being really close to being Loyola-Chicago.