K's leash

[1SE]

Actually those are completely unreasonable expectations for any program.  And why people generally roll their eyes at fans who actually have such expectations.

Don't really care enough to go cruise UK and Duke boards but my guess would be that in 9 out of the last 15 seasons their median expectation (as in disappointed with less) would be final 4.  Maybe not.  But certainly a Duke fan being frustrated with their season right now would be just as reasonable as a MU being frustrated with ours.  The difference is Coach K does have 35 years of success to fall back on.  Wojo doesn't.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure - for a fan or Marquette or 348 other DI teams, yes.  But if you're Duke (or Kentucky) I think it is reasonable for a fan to set the "expectation" bar at "9 final fours, 4 elite 8s, 2 sweet 16s and 1 round of 32" over a 15 year period.  Again, this is all relative to expectation.

SMDH. There has been no team ever in the history of ever where this was a reasonable expectation.

[Lennys Tap]

Wojo has exceeded my expectations and the administration's expectations. That second one is the only one that matters.

Your expectations were and still are unreasonable.

Wojo is 26-26 (with at least 10 wins against cupcakes) and 7-19 in our conference. Consensus for this year's team (Pomeroy, SI, etc.) was NCAA bubble. The best anyone can say is that we're meeting the lowest of the low end of expectations. Exceeding? Put down the crack pipe.

[1SE]

Wojo is 26-26 (with at least 10 wins against cupcakes) and 7-19 in our conference. Consensus for this year's team (Pomeroy, SI, etc.) was NCAA bubble. The best anyone can say is that we're meeting the lowest of the low end of expectations. Exceeding? Put down the crack pipe.

Thank you.

[1SE]

SMDH. There has been no team ever in the history of ever where this was a reasonable expectation.

I'll bet UK 2010-2025 will be pretty close.  2011-2015 4 FF in 5 years.

[MU82]

Might as well compare Tom Brady to Johnny Manziel (without the booze). Not your best work.

Really, Lenny?

Was I supposed to have put the entire post in teal?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo is 26-26 (with at least 10 wins against cupcakes) and 7-19 in our conference. Consensus for this year's team (Pomeroy, SI, etc.) was NCAA bubble. The best anyone can say is that we're meeting the lowest of the low end of expectations. Exceeding? Put down the crack pipe.

Its only the second year of Wojo's tenure. Last year he was stuck with the crumbs that Buzz left him. He inherited a team that missed the NIT the year before and graduated its best players and had one freshmen coming in. This year he is stuck with a bunch of freshmen. Anyone who expected us to win in the first two years needed to "put down the crack pipe."

All I expected in the first two years was to see the foundation for future success. I wanted to see solid recruiting, buy in from the players, and development. Wojo has exceeded in recruiting and buy in. He has met expectations in development. Next season, I'll start judging based on Ws and Ls.

As much as you and I disagree with CBB about social justice issues, he is right about one thing. You need to give a coach several years to make an accurate judgement. We can argue about the exact number of years, but its too early to say anything definitive about Wojo other than he's gotten to a good start with recruiting.

[Lennys Tap]

Really, Lenny?

Was I supposed to have put the entire post in teal?

82, I knew you were going "funny" - just thought it missed the mark. And I'm usually a fan.

[MU82]

82, I knew you were going "funny" - just thought it missed the mark. And I'm usually a fan.

When I was a kid, I always used to try to crack up my classmates. I usually got laughs. Sometimes groans. Every so often ... sent to the principal's office.

I can't keep everybody happy all the time. And there's no accounting for taste!

[brewcity77]

Sure - for a fan or Marquette or 348 other DI teams, yes.  But if you're Duke (or Kentucky) I think it is reasonable for a fan to set the "expectation" bar at "9 final fours, 4 elite 8s, 2 sweet 16s and 1 round of 32" over a 15 year period.  Again, this is all relative to expectation.

No program in the country has lived up to those expectations. Not Duke, not UNC, not Michigan State, not Kentucky, not Kansas, not anyone.

In the past 15 years, he's also earned 9 #1 seeds. Has any program matched that? Let's not discount his 4 regular season titles in the ACC and 8 tournament titles. And while it's not for Duke, two Olympic golds isn't anything to scoff at either. Of course, there's nothing more important than what I mentioned earlier, more national titles than any other program in the country over that time except UConn (who equaled him).

When it comes to coaching, Coach K is the greatest ever coach in the history of the game. He's maintained a ridiculous level of consistency while watching most blue blood programs just struggling to keep up. Considering Duke was on the verge of firing him in his second season, I'd say he's definitely overachieved.

[Lennys Tap]

As much as you and I disagree with CBB about social justice issues, he is right about one thing. You need to give a coach several years to make an accurate judgement. We can argue about the exact number of years, but its too early to say anything definitive about Wojo other than he's gotten to a good start with recruiting.

But I'm not saying anything "definitive" about Wojo. I hope he turns out to be our best coach ever and am willing to give him time in that regard. But he's been here almost 2 years and coached 52 games. So we've had a look. My expectations for this year were similar to Pomeroy's - 9-9, 5th in the Big East, bubble NCAA team. Anything better than that would exceed reasonable expectations, anything worse is a disappointment. That doesn't mean I'll bring out the pitchfork - instead, I'll give him a mulligan.

And by the way, I generally agree with the concept of not rushing to judgement on coaches - but sometimes excellence or ineptitude is apparent early. By mid January of his first year at MU I had seen enough to know that Buzz could really coach and I said it here. I didn't need to watch him do it for 5 years to prove to me what was obvious. For me, the jury is still out on Wojo. I'm hopeful but not convinced.

[jsheim]

The man has lost 4 of his last 5 games, including 3 straight to unranked opponents, 2 of them at Cameron Indoor.

He has admitted his team hasn't been well prepared at times. Isn't that the coach's job?

He has admitted that freshman Brandon Ingram -- higher ranked than Ellenson coming out of high school and higher ranked on pretty much every NBA draft board -- often takes one step forward and two steps backward. Isn't it the coach's job to develop his players?

After falling to Miami, he said: "We lost, but our kids weren't out-competed. I always tell my guys, you play your butts off, compete, and I'm good. So I'm good. I'm good." Are moral victories now acceptable at Duke?

He also admitted Miami was the better team. Isn't it his job to out-recruit Miami?

Duke has been hurt by an injury to his starting power forward. Isn't it the coach's job to recruit better depth?

His team's 4-4 start in ACC play is its worst in 20 years. Clearly K's program is reeling.

How much longer will Duke's administration settle for this mediocre performance? I can't believe he was given a contract extension not all that long ago!

Total Troll thread...gosh.,...K's "Leash"!....oh my...   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But I'm not saying anything "definitive" about Wojo. I hope he turns out to be our best coach ever and am willing to give him time in that regard. But he's been here almost 2 years and coached 52 games. So we've had a look. My expectations for this year were similar to Pomeroy's - 9-9, 5th in the Big East, bubble NCAA team. Anything better than that would exceed reasonable expectations, anything worse is a disappointment. That doesn't mean I'll bring out the pitchfork - instead, I'll give him a mulligan.

And by the way, I generally agree with the concept of not rushing to judgement on coaches - but sometimes excellence or ineptitude is apparent early. By mid January of his first year at MU I had seen enough to know that Buzz could really coach and I said it here. I didn't need to watch him do it for 5 years to prove to me what was obvious. For me, the jury is still out on Wojo. I'm hopeful but not convinced.

Fair enough. My post wasn't really about your reaction specifically, more the general meltdown from the entire board after the depaul loss

[Galway Eagle]

No program in the country has lived up to those expectations. Not Duke, not UNC, not Michigan State, not Kentucky, not Kansas, not anyone.

In the past 15 years, he's also earned 9 #1 seeds. Has any program matched that? Let's not discount his 4 regular season titles in the ACC and 8 tournament titles. And while it's not for Duke, two Olympic golds isn't anything to scoff at either. Of course, there's nothing more important than what I mentioned earlier, more national titles than any other program in the country over that time except UConn (who equaled him).

When it comes to coaching, Coach K is the greatest ever coach in the history of the game. He's maintained a ridiculous level of consistency while watching most blue blood programs just struggling to keep up. Considering Duke was on the verge of firing him in his second season, I'd say he's definitely overachieved.

Umm Coach Wooden with his 10 championships and 12 final fours may disagree...

The only other coaches I'd put above K are maybe Jackson and Pop. 

[CTWarrior]

Umm Coach Wooden with his 10 championships and 12 final fours may disagree...

The only other coaches I'd put above K are maybe Jackson and Pop.

How about Geno Auriemma?  Expectations for his program isn't national championships, it is undefeated national championships.  What he's doing is similar to Coach Wooden.  Dominating with a stacked deck.  I think Coach K's accomplishments are more impressive in that it is harder to do what he is doing in the 2000s than it was for Wooden to do what he did in the 60s/70s.  I understand if you disagree.

[Loose Cannon]

Maybe this year in CBB the expectations are Flawed, not so much blame on the teams, coaches or players.

Look at the CBB ranking landscape, from the beginning to now, they seem to have bounced around like Lotto ping pong balls.

Maybe more light should be shined in that direction.

[RushmoreAcademy]

This is possibly the oddest thread I remember reading on here.
Should Coach K have a short leash?  That is almost an Onion article.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is possibly the oddest thread I remember reading on here.
Should Coach K have a short leash?  That is almost an Onion article.

Maybe it is a Marv Albert kinda thing?

[GGGG]

Umm Coach Wooden with his 10 championships and 12 final fours may disagree...

The only other coaches I'd put above K are maybe Jackson and Pop. 

Wooden was a different era and had the benefit of a more lax NCAA enforcement scheme.  That being said, it is hard to compare Wooden and K simply because they are from different eras. 

And it is REALLY hard to compare college v. NBA coaches.

[brewcity77]

Umm Coach Wooden with his 10 championships and 12 final fours may disagree...

The only other coaches I'd put above K are maybe Jackson and Pop.

Coach K is coaching in a far more competitive era. Wooden couldn't do today what he did then. And, you know, there's the widely accepted knowledge that Wooden's program was funded by a money-laundering casino mogul. Not sure there were any programs that were ever dirtier than Wooden's UCLA. And it's not like that's a secret, either.

[MU82]

This is possibly the oddest thread I remember reading on here.
Should Coach K have a short leash?  That is almost an Onion article.

Oh boy ...

It was intended as "almost an Onion article"! It was a mock-up of a dopey earlier post titled "Wojo's leash."

As I asked somebody earlier, did I really have to put the entire post in teal?

Now I'll sit back and enjoy the continuing discussion.

[barfolomew]

Belmont at home could be called a bad loss but whens its the first game of the season and you have the 4th youngest team and your playing one of the top 20 experienced teams, its understandable.

Belmont is currently 15-6, 7-0 in the OVC.
Evan Bradds, the guy who "shredded" MU for 24pts in that game, is currently 3rd in the nation in eFG% at 72.1%.

You could call it a bad loss, but I think that would be a mistake.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Now I'll sit back and enjoy the continuing discussion.

[keefe]

And there's no accounting for taste!

There certainly is not my friend!

I mean, look at how many good women agreed to settle down with a Scooper...

[willie warrior]

Wojo to Duke, Dawkins to MU, Collins to Stanford,  Amaker to Northwestern, Brey to whichever store he buys his little mock turtle necks from. Coach K becomes a "brand ambassador" for Duke. So I decree it.

And Buzz replaces Shaka at Texas, because he wants to be near the genuine cowboys.