Leadership

[MU gimp ONE]

I wish i could find the thread from a couple weeks  ago to include in this, but I'm sure you guys will remember it.  It was about how much we miss Steve's leadership this year and how we don't have a defined leader that can control the team or the game or hit the big shot when needed.  man, i wish i can include that because i said it before and ill say it again, DJ will be able to lead this team.  granted he is a young leader and will stumble some I'm sure, but he has the ability to be a leader.  anyone out there disagree with DJ and the rest of the sophs being capable leaders this year?

[State]

Splitting hairs here but....

The only 'real' leader in our recent history was Travis.  Hear me out...

Wardle, Wade, Novak and James all have/had the ability to realize their team was/is struggling and score at will.  Diener had this ability but also the ability to ignite those around him.  Travis brought the best out of everyone on the floor.  Players would be in awe of Wade while on the court with him...not Travis--he kept everyone in check.

I loved watching that guy play...probably my favorite over the last 10 years.

[RawdogDX]

yeah and robert jackson would have had those 20 and 10 games without wade.

[WashDCWarrior]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

[HoopDreams]

Splitting hairs here but....

The only 'real' leader in our recent history was Travis.  Hear me out...

Wardle, Wade, Novak and James all have/had the ability to realize their team was/is struggling and score at will.  Diener had this ability but also the ability to ignite those around him.  Travis brought the best out of everyone on the floor.  Players would be in awe of Wade while on the court with him...not Travis--he kept everyone in check.

I loved watching that guy play...probably my favorite over the last 10 years.

Well done, State..I agree, Diener made things happen on the court..one thing I do not see this year, not that it isn't necessarily there, is DJ's desire or ability to create for the other players on the court. He does a fantastic job penetrating along with Wes and Jerel, but is less inclined to find the open man even if the defense collapses on him. I think DJ has a better afinity for scoring near the hoop than Diener (Diener was far superior from the outside), but I think there are a lot of lost opportunities for open looks for other players on the floor. I feel that this can be a concern for the team this year because if the big three or DJ for that matter are not playing well or their shots aren't dropping, they will continue to shoot instead of finding that open man who may provide a needed spark. Also, creating for other players makes a more diversified offense and forces defenses to guard each threat on the floor. I think DJ is emerging as a team leader and is playing great, but I would like to see a more focused team effort because come tournament time that is what will carry this team..

[tower912]

I was at the Valpo game, was really impressed with DJ down the stretch.  Who else remembers that TC yanked his butt out of the game 5 minutes earlier for forcing a pair of 3's when the game was turning against MU?   He will be a leader.   He's not a great one yet.   He raised his game but was unable to raise the games of his teammates.   Great player, more than likely gone after this year, hasn't made his teammates better yet.    This based on seeing the TT, Duke, and Valpo games.  I don't know what happens at the Al, just what I have seen in the games.

[SoCalstu09]

It's also concerning that DJ's career assist day occurred last year when he recored 9! Just NINE assists from a potential Naismith, All American PG!

I love him, but true, he's a scorer before a passer.

[MU gimp ONE]

i think his assists are also low due to the amount of outside shooting that the team does.  Wade had high assists thanks to deiner/novak outside and jackson/merritt down low.  those were automatic points when he would drive and dish.  travis had high assists due to great outside shooting from teammates.  James does not have that luxury.  he can penetrate so jerel can jack a way off 3, or someone else to cut to the basket with enough dribbling to take away the assist.  this offense isn't set up the way our old ones were.  he isn't going to get great assist numbers until we get a solid inside game or consistant outside shooting.

that's just my thoughts.

[RawdogDX]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

Please, are you going to say the same thing about any center who ever played with a good 2?  he didn't even have to back people down with where he was when wade gave him the ball on drives.

[tower912]

As evidenced by Hibbert and Green getting a combined 9 points.  It takes good guards to consistently get the ball to the big guys.  We have the good guards.

[WashDCWarrior]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

Please, are you going to say the same thing about any center who ever played with a good 2?  he didn't even have to back people down with where he was when wade gave him the ball on drives.

If what Jackson did was "so easily accomplished" how come he's the only player in the Crean era that could do it consistently?  Merritt or Grimm couldn't.  We've got pretty good guardplay right now, but Jackson would bring a dimension to the table that Ooze, Lott, Blackledge, or Burke don't.

[tower912]

Absolutely.   RJax, or for that matter Damon Key, with their low post abilities, could make us a final 4 contender.   In a perfect world, a year ago, Dr. Frankenstein would have snuck into the Al and transplanted Grimm's brain and desire into Amo's body, so we would have a 6'8", 250 lb kamikaze down on the low blocks.  That would bring the missing component to this team.   But, we live in an imperfect world, so let's hope that Ooze, Lazar, and Burke continue to develop and Kinsella finally finds the right pair of shoes.

[RawdogDX]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

Please, are you going to say the same thing about any center who ever played with a good 2?  he didn't even have to back people down with where he was when wade gave him the ball on drives.

If what Jackson did was "so easily accomplished" how come he's the only player in the Crean era that could do it consistently?  Merritt or Grimm couldn't.  We've got pretty good guardplay right now, but Jackson would bring a dimension to the table that Ooze, Lott, Blackledge, or Burke don't.

Is putting things in quotes that other people didn't say something you do often or did someone Else say "so easily accomplished"?  And how are we comparing Merritt or Grimm to Jackson? I at no point said either of those were any where nearly as good as him (keeping my fingers crossed on Baro being as good next year)  What i was arguing against was you saying that he would have been BETTER without wade.  The idea that he would benefit more from a few more shots a game then having wade drawing double teams and keeping teams honest in defending him is ridiculous.

[HoopDreams]

I think a lot of people overlook the impact Robert Jackson made for Marquette in 2003.. I think we could really use a guy like Jackson this year on MU. He could put a body on a guy on defense and could finish effectively on offense. It is amazing the dimension a solid post player can add to an offense and defense. Jackson was easily the best big man for the Crean era and I think that the team saw a lot of success that year due to his impact..

[WashDCWarrior]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

Please, are you going to say the same thing about any center who ever played with a good 2?  he didn't even have to back people down with where he was when wade gave him the ball on drives.

If what Jackson did was "so easily accomplished" how come he's the only player in the Crean era that could do it consistently?  Merritt or Grimm couldn't.  We've got pretty good guardplay right now, but Jackson would bring a dimension to the table that Ooze, Lott, Blackledge, or Burke don't.

Is putting things in quotes that other people didn't say something you do often or did someone Else say "so easily accomplished"?  And how are we comparing Merritt or Grimm to Jackson? I at no point said either of those were any where nearly as good as him (keeping my fingers crossed on Baro being as good next year)  What i was arguing against was you saying that he would have been BETTER without wade.  The idea that he would benefit more from a few more shots a game then having wade drawing double teams and keeping teams honest in defending him is ridiculous.

Regarding misquoting people, I never said Jackson would have been better (or BETTER as you put it) without Wade.  I said he would have had better statistics.  I'm not taking away from Wade how much easier he makes the game for his teammates or his contributions to winning.  I just feel that without Wade, other members of the 2003 squad (Jackson, Diener, Novak) would have carried more of the scoring load.  It just would have been on the road to the NIT, not the final four.

[RawdogDX]

Actually he would have had better statistics w/o Wade.  He really had a knack for getting the ball into the basket and would have had more touches.  Easily the best big man in the Crean era.

Please, are you going to say the same thing about any center who ever played with a good 2?  he didn't even have to back people down with where he was when wade gave him the ball on drives.

If what Jackson did was "so easily accomplished" how come he's the only player in the Crean era that could do it consistently?  Merritt or Grimm couldn't.  We've got pretty good guardplay right now, but Jackson would bring a dimension to the table that Ooze, Lott, Blackledge, or Burke don't.

Is putting things in quotes that other people didn't say something you do often or did someone Else say "so easily accomplished"?  And how are we comparing Merritt or Grimm to Jackson? I at no point said either of those were any where nearly as good as him (keeping my fingers crossed on Baro being as good next year)  What i was arguing against was you saying that he would have been BETTER without wade.  The idea that he would benefit more from a few more shots a game then having wade drawing double teams and keeping teams honest in defending him is ridiculous.

Regarding misquoting people, I never said Jackson would have been better (or BETTER as you put it) without Wade.  I said he would have had better statistics.  I'm not taking away from Wade how much easier he makes the game for his teammates or his contributions to winning.  I just feel that without Wade, other members of the 2003 squad (Jackson, Diener, Novak) would have carried more of the scoring load.  It just would have been on the road to the NIT, not the final four.

1: I never put anything you said in quotes.
2: Yes they would have carried more of the scoring load, but his shooting percentage would have been a lot lower and it probably would have hurt his o rebounding numbers. 

[WashDCWarrior]

I'll give you the shooting percentage being down, but I think offensive rebounding would be a push.

FYI - the quotes we're used to indicate that those were not my thoughts.  I wasn't attempting to put words in your mouth, and you've made it clear that they weren't your thoughts either.

[RawdogDX]

I'll give you the shooting percentage being down, but I think offensive rebounding would be a push.

FYI - the quotes we're used to indicate that those were not my thoughts.  I wasn't attempting to put words in your mouth, and you've made it clear that they weren't your thoughts either.

Deal.   

[WashDCWarrior]

Deal