Is Wojo Telling Us Something

[Dawson Rental]

"Pay my bills", "Pay my Bills"

Somehow, Dwyane was unable to stay married to a woman who so clearly had his best interests at heart.  Go figure.

[forgetful]

I continue to see Henry staying with us his entire four years. He is having a lot of fun right now. The Big East Conference season is very challenging and plenty of competition to keep him improving. Henry does not come from a deprived background so I don't see money as a motivator. Lots of very good players stay all four years. Draymond Green is a prime example.

There is no question he will be drafted if he elected to leave MU. I just believe he will not leave until he has achieved his objectives in college.

He is loving it here right now.  He's having the time of his life.  It will be the best year of his college career, cause he is gone at the end of the season.

[martyconlonontherun]

I continue to see Henry staying with us his entire four years. He is having a lot of fun right now. The Big East Conference season is very challenging and plenty of competition to keep him improving. Henry does not come from a deprived background so I don't see money as a motivator. Lots of very good players stay all four years. Draymond Green is a prime example.

There is no question he will be drafted if he elected to leave MU. I just believe he will not leave until he has achieved his objectives in college.

1.  There's a difference between deprived and instant millionaire. I don't think ellenson comes from close that amount of money. I may stay in college if I delayed a middle income salary cause my background is comfortable enough to survive but I'm not passing up millions in a career where your timeline is severely limited.

2.  Green is a horrible example. He didn't got pro cause it didn't make sense. He was averaging 3.3 points as a freshman and less than 13 as a junior. He was never a candidate to leave early. And based on my limited knowledge of his personality I would guess he would've left as soon as he was guaranteed for the lottery.

Duncan is probably the last example of a great player sticking around for 3+ years because despite be a top ten pick if he left early. But Duncan is a NBA anomaly.

[CTWarrior]

1.  There's a difference between deprived and instant millionaire. I don't think ellenson comes from close that amount of money. I may stay in college if I delayed a middle income salary cause my background is comfortable enough to survive but I'm not passing up millions in a career where your timeline is severely limited.

2.  Green is a horrible example. He didn't got pro cause it didn't make sense. He was averaging 3.3 points as a freshman and less than 13 as a junior. He was never a candidate to leave early. And based on my limited knowledge of his personality I would guess he would've left as soon as he was guaranteed for the lottery.

Duncan is probably the last example of a great player sticking around for 3+ years because despite be a top ten pick if he left early. But Duncan is a NBA anomaly.

If you're not planning to stick around to graduate, I don't see the logic of staying in school for another year if you're going to be a lottery pick this year.  I love my brother too, but I'm pretty sure I would not stick around to play ball with him for another 35 games if it would cost me $3M or whatever the number is.  I hope Henry stays, but it doesn't seem too likely, does it?

[martyconlonontherun]

If you're not planning to stick around to graduate, I don't see the logic of staying in school for another year if you're going to be a lottery pick this year.  I love my brother too, but I'm pretty sure I would not stick around to play ball with him for another 35 games if it would cost me $3M or whatever the number is.  I hope Henry stays, but it doesn't seem too likely, does it?

I agree. I think he is gone. I actually think its more likely a player stays one extra year compared to staying to graduate. Two main reasons is that there is some value between going from the 8th pick to a top 3 pick in terms of exposure and recognition and they also feel they want to accomplish something like winning a championship or trying to get player of the year.

I totally understand if Henry decides to stay because he likes school, wants to win an award, or win a championship. I just think it is crazy that some would develop better in better. You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching, better competition, better health and training programs, etc.

[Galway Eagle]

I agree. I think he is gone. I actually think its more likely a player stays one extra year compared to staying to graduate. Two main reasons is that there is some value between going from the 8th pick to a top 3 pick in terms of exposure and recognition and they also feel they want to accomplish something like winning a championship or trying to get player of the year.

I totally understand if Henry decides to stay because he likes school, wants to win an award, or win a championship. I just think it is crazy that some would develop better in better. You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching, better competition, better health and training programs, etc.

No real way to prove better coaching. I mean outside of Popavich and maybe a couple other guys there's no proof that it's better coaching. I mean right now Donovan and Stevens are proof that the NBA thinks highly of college coaches. 

In fact of the jobs that both NBA and College coaches are vying for you'd have to give the edge to College coaches because Coach K is the head of USA Basketball with Boeheim being his number 2. 

[GGGG]

No real way to prove better coaching. I mean outside of Popavich and maybe a couple other guys there's no proof that it's better coaching. I mean right now Donovan and Stevens are proof that the NBA thinks highly of college coaches. 

In fact of the jobs that both NBA and College coaches are vying for you'd have to give the edge to College coaches because Coach K is the head of USA Basketball with Boeheim being his number 2. 

NBA coaches are better able to teach NBA ball than college coaches.  I don't even think that's debatable.  The reason NBA coaches look to college coaches isn't due to their technical acumen, it's due to their ability to relate and communicate to men that age. 

[MU82]

Agreed, which is why I said they would be a certain tournament team. They will be better. Getting to the second weekend (Sweet 16) would be a realistic hope, although not a sure bet.

But people thinking we are an automatic Final Four team if HE returns are nuts.

By the way, I'd love to be wrong.

We are in agreement then. I never, ever said Henry staying would make us a FF team. We'd be ranked, we'd make the tourney and we'd have a chance to have a nice tourney run; those are the only predictions I'd feel comfortable making.

I simply said that even if we had the exact same players, we wouldn't be the exact same team because players and teams tend to improve.

[MU82]

NBA coaches are better able to teach NBA ball than college coaches.  I don't even think that's debatable.  The reason NBA coaches look to college coaches isn't due to their technical acumen, it's due to their ability to relate and communicate to men that age.

I'm not sure it's completely fair to compare and say, "Pro coaches are better than college coaches ... period," as some seem to be doing. There are great coaches in both ranks and less-great coaches in both ranks, though there obviously (due to sheer numbers) are far more less-great coaches in college.

One huge difference, I'd argue, goes beyond the head coaches. NBA assistant coaches, in general, are far more accomplished and experienced than college assistant coaches. And it is the assistants who do much -- if not most -- of the actual teaching in both pro and college ball.

[Galway Eagle]

NBA coaches are better able to teach NBA ball than college coaches.  I don't even think that's debatable.  The reason NBA coaches look to college coaches isn't due to their technical acumen, it's due to their ability to relate and communicate to men that age.

But the measure of coaching acumen isn't teaching NBA ball. College coaches aren't paid to teach NBA ball so this is a false equivalency.  Like I said before the only job where NBA and college coaches are both in the running equally is held by a college coach.   

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not sure it's completely fair to compare and say, "Pro coaches are better than college coaches ... period," as some seem to be doing. There are great coaches in both ranks and less-great coaches in both ranks, though there obviously (due to sheer numbers) are far more less-great coaches in college.

One huge difference, I'd argue, goes beyond the head coaches. NBA assistant coaches, in general, are far more accomplished and experienced than college assistant coaches. And it is the assistants who do much -- if not most -- of the actual teaching in both pro and college ball.

This is a good point.

[MU82]

This is a good point.

Thanks.

Plus, NBA assistant coaches are all about coaching all of the time. College assistants spend a significant amount of time recruiting, much of it on the road.

[MUEng92]

So, if Henry went out and bought a Powerball ticket and won $1.5B, THEN would he stay another year at MU?

[NWarsh]

But the measure of coaching acumen isn't teaching NBA ball. College coaches aren't paid to teach NBA ball so this is a false equivalency.  Like I said before the only job where NBA and college coaches are both in the running equally is held by a college coach.

Even that is not necessarily an accurate reflection as the NBA game does not necessarily translate all that great to international basketball.  I have no experience with the behind the scenes of NBA but I do have it for the overseas game (Spain) and at the college level and I think the college game is a closer fit (mainly due to how they are officiated.  Now with that said, Coach K is a great coach no matter what level, and I am sure Pop would be just as successful as Coach K has been because great coaches will be great no matter what level, so this is really a moot point.

[GGGG]

But the measure of coaching acumen isn't teaching NBA ball. College coaches aren't paid to teach NBA ball so this is a false equivalency. 

No it isn't.  Henry isn't going to be making a living playing college ball.  If he is going to learn to excel at his chosen *profession*, NBA coaches are better suited to teach him how to do that.

Like I said before the only job where NBA and college coaches are both in the running equally is held by a college coach.   

Do you think the role of the head coach of USA basketball is anything like the role of a coach that's going to be getting Henry ready for the NBA???  The head coach of USA basketball's primary responsibility is to figure out line ups and manage egos.  It really isn't comparable. 

One huge difference, I'd argue, goes beyond the head coaches. NBA assistant coaches, in general, are far more accomplished and experienced than college assistant coaches. And it is the assistants who do much -- if not most -- of the actual teaching in both pro and college ball.

Correct.  I wasn't limiting my definition of "coaches" to simply head coaches however.  (I didn't make myself clear in that regard.)

[GGGG]

Now with that said, Coach K is a great coach no matter what level, and I am sure Pop would be just as successful as Coach K has been because great coaches will be great no matter what level, so this is really a moot point.

Pop will be just as successful because the United States has by far the best basketball talent in the world. 

[NWarsh]

Pop will be just as successful because the United States has by far the best basketball talent in the world.

True, but we have seen before where even with the best basketball talent in the world the US has not won...2004 is a prime example of that

[Galway Eagle]

No it isn't.  Henry isn't going to be making a living playing college ball.  If he is going to learn to excel at his chosen *profession*, NBA coaches are better suited to teach him how to do that.


Do you think the role of the head coach of USA basketball is anything like the role of a coach that's going to be getting Henry ready for the NBA???  The head coach of USA basketball's primary responsibility is to figure out line ups and manage egos.  It really isn't comparable. 


Correct.  I wasn't limiting my definition of "coaches" to simply head coaches however.  (I didn't make myself clear in that regard.)

I'm not arguing that a certain NBA coach might be better suited for Henry to learn the NBA game. Perhaps you are mistaking my argument here. I'm simply saying that a blanket statement of "the NBA has better coaches" is false in my opinion. 

Once again you specifically bring getting Henry ready for the NBA into this and that isn't what I'm arguing. I brought up USA basketball because in my opinion the fact a college coach was chosen over an NBA coach speaks about where each stands. I personally think Henry should leave after this year unless he has always dreamed about a Final Four or playing with his brother. 

If you weren't limiting yourself to just head coaches I'd agree with you there, however I maintain that the top of the college coaches are on par with the top of the NBA coaches in their respective games. Similar to the way I would argue Saban or Meyer are as good of coaches as McCarthy or Carroll. 

[GGGG]

I'm not arguing that a certain NBA coach might be better suited for Henry to learn the NBA game.
...
Once again you specifically bring getting Henry ready for the NBA into this and that isn't what I'm arguing.

???  That was the whole f*ckin' point of marty's post that YOU quoted.

He said this:  "I totally understand if Henry decides to stay because he likes school, wants to win an award, or win a championship. I just think it is crazy that some would develop better in better. You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching..."

He was specifically talking about him developing as a player in the NBA.  I mean if you are going to bring up something that is completely irrelevant to the point the poster is making, that's all fine and good I guess. 

[Galway Eagle]

???  That was the whole f*ckin' point of marty's post that YOU quoted.

He said this:  "I totally understand if Henry decides to stay because he likes school, wants to win an award, or win a championship. I just think it is crazy that some would develop better in better. You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching..."

He was specifically talking about him developing as a player in the NBA.  I mean if you are going to bring up something that is completely irrelevant to the point the poster is making, that's all fine and good I guess.

Woah deep breath guy... you're getting weirdly angry for a calm message board post. 

I bolded the "better coaching" line in his post. I was specifically arguing that one part of his post. It was not in a specific context with Henry it was listed a general reason someone would want to head to the NBA early and thus was relavent.  I disagree with him and you, are you someone who cannot handle that? I'd hate to be your wife or kids then.

NBA coaches are fired left and right all the time, can you really say that they're better than the college coaches who have to build and sell programs, still do the ego management that NBA coaches do, deal with the Xs and Os, etc? What about 3 years ago when two of the current NBA coaches were in the College game? Was Scott Brooks better than Billy Donovan?

[GGGG]

Woah deep breath guy... you're getting weirdly angry for a calm message board post. 

I'm not angry.  I'm frustrated that you can't understand what context means.

I bolded the "better coaching" line in his post. I was specifically arguing that one part of his post. It was not in a specific context with Henry it was listed a general reason someone would want to head to the NBA early and thus was relavent.

?????  The quote and the topic specifically is about Henry and his readiness for the NBA.  ?????  The entire mention of "better coaching" was in that regard.  I mean, if you are just going to bold random statements and talk about them out of context, that may be amusing for the general reader and all, but it doesn't make much sense.

I disagree with him and you, are you someone who cannot handle that? I'd hate to be your wife or kids then.

My wife and kids have the ability to debate within the context of a discussion.  They just don't turn around and make irrelevant points like "hey, the sky isn't blue on Jupiter."

Then again, they haven't been hit in the head dozens of times either.  Maybe their comprehension and concentration is better.  I don't know...

NBA coaches are fired left and right all the time, can you really say that they're better than the college coaches who have to build and sell programs, still do the ego management that NBA coaches do, deal with the Xs and Os, etc? What about 3 years ago when two of the current NBA coaches were in the College game? Was Scott Brooks better than Billy Donovan?

<sigh>

Seriously, I am pointing it out to you, and you are still doing it.

[BM1090]

I'm not angry.  I'm frustrated that you can't understand what context means.


?????  The quote and the topic specifically is about Henry and his readiness for the NBA.  ?????  The entire mention of "better coaching" was in that regard.  I mean, if you are just going to bold random statements and talk about them out of context, that may be amusing for the general reader and all, but it doesn't make much sense.


My wife and kids have the ability to debate within the context of a discussion.  They just don't turn around and make irrelevant points like "hey, the sky isn't blue on Jupiter."

Then again, they haven't been hit in the head dozens of times either.  Maybe their comprehension and concentration is better.  I don't know...

Come on Sultan.....I'm with you here, and I understand the frustration. But there is no need for the last part of your post.

[GGGG]

Come on Sultan.....I'm with you here, and I understand the frustration. But there is no need for the last part of your post.

He's the one that made it personal.  I am simply responding in kind.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not angry.  I'm frustrated that you can't understand what context means.


?????  The quote and the topic specifically is about Henry and his readiness for the NBA.  ?????  The entire mention of "better coaching" was in that regard.  I mean, if you are just going to bold random statements and talk about them out of context, that may be amusing for the general reader and all, but it doesn't make much sense.


My wife and kids have the ability to debate within the context of a discussion.  They just don't turn around and make irrelevant points like "hey, the sky isn't blue on Jupiter."

Then again, they haven't been hit in the head dozens of times either.  Maybe their comprehension and concentration is better.  I don't know...



<sigh>

Seriously, I am pointing it out to you, and you are still doing it.

I can really see that your not angry the all the cursing and passive aggressive statements really back that up.

I don't read that context. He was listing general reasons that the NBA would be better and Henry was an example. If you take out Henry's name and replace it with any other name in the country he'd still have those reasons listed thus I read them to be a blanket statement. If the post said "for Henry's skillset there's better coaching" that would be saying there's better coaching for Henry. Saying "You play more real game minutes in the NBA, more practice times, better coaching, better competition, better health and training programs, etc." That is a general statement as to why someone would leave to the NBA not specific to Henry. 

Is this where I am supposed to be ashamed for being an athlete and quite the accomplished one? What have you done in your life in sports? High school sports shrine like Ners? Do you act like a dick to football or hockey players too for the hits they take?

To your last line maybe if you pointed it out without all your crazy anger and "frustration" I'd grasp it better. 

[Galway Eagle]

He's the one that made it personal.  I am simply responding in kind.

After being cursed at by an angry person.