Is Wojo Telling Us Something

[mu03eng]

First off, Darko was draft 3rd overall, I think Henry at his current skill set is as good or better with a better ceiling, so he'll go first round no question.

Second, Henry 9 months ago was playing against kids from central and northern Wisconsin, no offense to them but not exactly a competitive crucible that prepares one for the NBA. You have to look at his trajectory this season; as his competition has increased so has his ability.

Third, the dude is averaging a double double both for the full season and conference season. How many players can say that? (no seriously, I'm too lazy to look, how many?) It can't be a lot, the guy can ball.

Fourth, any flaws in his game are coachable. He's got a great mid-range and his long range shot form is good, just hasn't hit much yet. He'll learn footwork and positioning better this season and in the NBA.

Fifth, he averages a double double.

Lastly, I hope he stays, but you go for the money when you can. The only thing that keeps him here is his brother, loving college a lon and/or wanting to win a championship next year. If he stays we should be in the Final Four at a minimum.

[jsglow]

I'm not going to participate in another one and done thread.  What I will say is that what I believe Wojo was saying is that Henry takes seriously his responsibility to the team, coaches and university.  We saw that at Wisconsin.  We saw that against the Friars.  Henry accepts his obligation to take this team as far as he possibly can.  Next year will take care of itself.

[mu03eng]

I'm not going to participate in another one and done thread.  What I will say is that what I believe Wojo was saying is that Henry takes seriously his responsibility to the team, coaches and university.  We saw that at Wisconsin.  We saw that against the Friars.  Henry accepts his obligation to take this team as far as he possibly can.  Next year will take care of itself.

He says as he participates in said thread

[WarriorFan]

I went back to 2012 and 2013 drafts and looked for comparisons at PF or in the 6'11" range.  Here's what I came up with:
2012
1 Anthony Davis - no comparison!
14 John Henson - good rebounder, can shoot to 12 feet, not super athletic. Played 3 years at NC. Possibly a good comparison
16 Royce White - too may problems.  D league now.  no comparison
17 Tyler Zeller - 4 years of college, not athletic enough to compete for regular minutes in Boston's frontcourt.  More of a center.  No comparison
18 Terrence Jones - more of a "load".  more athletic. not the same type of player. 
19 Andrew Nicholson - now with Orlando.  VERY similar college stats in his final year... and not getting much run. good possible comparison
21 Jared Sullinger - a load, with good shot, good moves and footwork for a man his size, but in a different category due to the weight difference
26 Miles Plumlee - more of a center.  never could shoot. no comparison.

2013
1 Anthony Bennett - weight problems and other issues - bust.  Proof that drafting for potential doesn't always work!
4 Cody Zeller - bigger and heavier, but similar college stats in his 2nd year... possible good comparison.  Means HE should stay another year!
13 Kelly Olynyk - bigger, but similar college stats after 3 years, more athletic than HE, and now in a groove with Boston.   This is what I see as the upside for Henry if he stays. 

In conclusion, if he stays, HE will be a 20-minute worthy NBA player and a fringe starter or 6th man.  Could be more of a rebounder like Henson (but Henson plays MUCH better defense, although not a shot blocker) or could be an offense focused stretch 4 like Olynyk who could start for an average team or provide spark for a good team from the bench. 

All only after 2-3 years of development!

[KenoshaWarrior]

He's going to be a first rounder if he decides to go, of course, and probably a lottery pick.  He is skilled in that he has excellent hands and handles the ball better than the average guy his size, but its not like you can use him to dribble to beat the press.  He is currently not a particularly good shooter and really lacks strength and athleticism (which I really find as weird because he is always described as athletic.  Athletic to me means quick and bouncy and Henry is certainly neither of those things).  The strength can and will be addressed, and he has a nice stroke so I expect he will be a good shooter, but his lack of athleticism makes me wonder what his NBA ceiling is, because he's going to have trouble guardning anybody at the next level.

What I like most about him is that he seems to have a great instincts.  I don't know how you quantify that, but he does.  Right now, he does a lot of things technically wrong.  He doesn't box out well but he is a still an excellent rebounder because he has a good feel for where the ball is going to come off the rim and he has great hands and always corrals the ball when it is within his reach.  As he gets more experience and technically proficient he will just get better at that skill.

What makes it hard for many  to see is that a guy like Ben Bentil at Providence looks to me like a better player ina lot of ways right now and is only one year older, but is not remotely as highly regarded for the next level.

Ben Bentil is 6'9   That is the difference.   

[Lennys Tap]

Lastly, I hope he stays, but you go for the money when you can. The only thing that keeps him here is his brother, loving college a lon and/or wanting to win a championship next year. If he stays we should be in the Final Four at a minimum.

03 - be it politics, culture or basketball you are probably the most reasonable and well thought out voice on this board. You can't really believe that if HE stays that a FF is our floor next year. If he stays and we advance to the 2nd weekend I'll be ecstatic.

[MUDPT]

Henry doesn't exist in a vacuum.  His skills/ stats at Marquette have to be compared against other guys coming out too.  Here are the stats of the Chad Ford Lottery PF/C this year:

Labissiere- 8.7 PPG, 3.4 RPG
Ellenson- 16.0 PPG, 9.9 RPG
Poeltl- 17.7 PPG, 9.3 RPG
Rabb- 12.7 PPG, 8.6 RPG

I've read scouts think Henry is perfect as a stretch 4 in the NBA.  He shoots 75% from the FT line, which I've heard projects well for big men in the NBA FG%.

And I don't know why anybody is arguing with Dish.  He knows better than anyone here. 

[Coleman]

First, it wouldn't be the exact same team.

Second, good players get better, often much better. I mean, how good were Dekker, Kaminsky and Gasser as freshmen? Did they get better? Did Diener get better? And so on and so on and so on and so on. Most good, hard-working players improve significantly.

Agreed, which is why I said they would be a certain tournament team. They will be better. Getting to the second weekend (Sweet 16) would be a realistic hope, although not a sure bet.

But people thinking we are an automatic Final Four team if HE returns are nuts.

By the way, I'd love to be wrong.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nothing is guaranteed in the tournament. But Henry coming back and no other major defections would make us a top 20 regular season team minimum. I think closer to top 10

[Coleman]

Nothing is guaranteed in the tournament. But Henry coming back and no other major defections would make us a top 20 regular season team minimum. I think closer to top 10

I guess that's fair. By the way, you can be a top 20 team and miss the Sweet 16 (which makes sense....only 16 teams get to go).

While its cool to be ranked during the season it means absolutely nothing in terms of tournament success. A ranking in the 20s basically means you should win one game in the tournament.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ben Bentil is 6'9   That is the difference.

And while Bentil was a monster offensively, he didn't appear to me to have great hands or ball handling ability.

[MarquetteDano]

03 - be it politics, culture or basketball you are probably the most reasonable and well thought out voice on this board. You can't really believe that if HE stays that a FF is our floor next year. If he stays and we advance to the 2nd weekend I'll be ecstatic.

I must concur.  We are a bubble team at best this year.  We are not bringing in a top 5 recruiting class next year.  Yes, we don't lose anyone and nearly everyone should improve but no way do we go from bubble to MINIMUM a final four team.

Assuming Ellenson returns I think Sweet Sixteen is a reasonable, but difficult goal next season.

[mu03eng]

03 - be it politics, culture or basketball you are probably the most reasonable and well thought out voice on this board. You can't really believe that if HE stays that a FF is our floor next year. If he stays and we advance to the 2nd weekend I'll be ecstatic.

The tournament is a crap shoot, you can have a bad game and get bounced but with the talent/experience returning (including HE) plus the new comers we should be a top 10 team and definitely a Final Four should be an expectation. If not with this roster when would we get there?

If we lost in the 2nd weekend I wouldn't be mad, that's the nature of the tournament but we should have high expectations

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I must concur.  We are a bubble team at best this year.  We are not bringing in a top 5 recruiting class next year.  Yes, we don't lose anyone and nearly everyone should improve but no way do we go from bubble to MINIMUM a final four team.

Assuming Ellenson returns I think Sweet Sixteen is a reasonable, but difficult goal next season.

Unless you bring in classes like Kentucky or Duke, who you return is more important than who you bring in.

[GOO]

Does anyone really believe Wojo is thinking: "How can I drop a coded message to the fanbase to let them know that Henry secretly told me he's staying another season?"

Or is it more likely Wojo is saying Henry is all-in on this particular season, and that's it?

So your saying that Wojo has taken to talking in code to the fans base isn't a logical conclusion?   I had better find a new hobby.  Cue Beautiful Mind movie sound track.

[Herman Cain]

I continue to see Henry staying with us his entire four years. He is having a lot of fun right now. The Big East Conference season is very challenging and plenty of competition to keep him improving. Henry does not come from a deprived background so I don't see money as a motivator. Lots of very good players stay all four years. Draymond Green is a prime example.

There is no question he will be drafted if he elected to leave MU. I just believe he will not leave until he has achieved his objectives in college.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A good reporter would have asked the natural follow up question:

"Did Austin Rivers, Kyrie Irving or Jabari Parker ever unpack their bags?"

Marcus Smart did.   

[Eldon]

Agreed, which is why I said they would be a certain tournament team. They will be better. Getting to the second weekend (Sweet 16) would be a realistic hope, although not a sure bet.

But people thinking we are an automatic Final Four team if HE returns are nuts.

By the way, I'd love to be wrong.

Nuts is an understatement. 

I would say those people are wearing blue-and-gold colored glasses...staring at a blue-and-gold wall...with blue-and-gold paint in their eyes. 

puff, puff, pass, ain'a?

[Galway Eagle]

I see what mu03eng is saying about final four being the floor it's kinda like the 08-09 or the 11-12 teams, where we all said "final four is our floor" sure both kinda disappointed because the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot but I think he's talking about the potential of the team not the reality of what will happen. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I see what mu03eng is saying about final four being the floor it's kinda like the 08-09 or the 11-12 teams, where we all said "final four is our floor" sure both kinda disappointed because the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot but I think he's talking about the potential of the team not the reality of what will happen.

This. Tournament is too chaotic to predict. We will be a team that preseason people look at as a final four contender. We have five freshmen. The biggest jump players make is after their freshmen year. This team will improve immensely

[mu03eng]

I see what mu03eng is saying about final four being the floor it's kinda like the 08-09 or the 11-12 teams, where we all said "final four is our floor" sure both kinda disappointed because the NCAA tournament is a crap shoot but I think he's talking about the potential of the team not the reality of what will happen.

That is 100% what I'm saying. Given the landscape and what we know now, if HE returns next year we will have top 10 talent and experience which could/should translate into a deep run into early April....but just like 03 where it took Diener playing like a maniac against Holy Cross and a freshman Novak stepping up again Pitt to get to the Final Four, it's not a guarantee.

If HE is back next year, barring critical injury, I will be disappointed if we don't make the Final Four, but that it isn't a lock we get there.

[CTWarrior]

Henry Ellenson is up to 4 on Chad Ford's latest draft projection (need to be an Insider)

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14541016/chad-ford-big-board-40-led-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-nba-draft-2016

4.  Henry Ellenson

Previous rank: No. 6
Marquette
Freshman
Forward/center

Last month I wrote that Ellenson was a hot month away from surpassing Jaylen Brown and Skal Labissiere on our board. I wouldn't say he lit it up over the past month, but his more-than-solid play as a freshman -- combined with major struggles by Brown and Labissiere -- has pushed him past both.

His shaky 3-point shooting (just 26 percent from deep) is a source of concern, but he's stroking the ball from everywhere else on the floor.

"Every time I see him I can't help but see some Kevin Love there," one NBA GM said. "He's probably a better shooter at this stage and I think he's a more willing passer."

With teams emphasizing bigs who can stretch the floor and still protect the rim, he should be very popular on draft night.

[MuMark]

No he was 2nd overall.....http://www.nba.com/history/draft/2003-draft/

First off, Darko was draft 3rd overall, I think Henry at his current skill set is as good or better with a better ceiling, so he'll go first round no question.

Second, Henry 9 months ago was playing against kids from central and northern Wisconsin, no offense to them but not exactly a competitive crucible that prepares one for the NBA. You have to look at his trajectory this season; as his competition has increased so has his ability.

Third, the dude is averaging a double double both for the full season and conference season. How many players can say that? (no seriously, I'm too lazy to look, how many?) It can't be a lot, the guy can ball.

Fourth, any flaws in his game are coachable. He's got a great mid-range and his long range shot form is good, just hasn't hit much yet. He'll learn footwork and positioning better this season and in the NBA.

Fifth, he averages a double double.

Lastly, I hope he stays, but you go for the money when you can. The only thing that keeps him here is his brother, loving college a lon and/or wanting to win a championship next year. If he stays we should be in the Final Four at a minimum.

[AlienWarrior]

Hank unpacked his bags but didn't put them in storage.

[MattyWarrior]

Just saw Wojo driving a Infiniti around the race track in a commercial,doing it for charity.