Cheatham

[WarriorPride68]

Cheatham is now at 45 Ast / 59 TO. And hasn't had a game with more assists than turnovers since December 8th vs San Jose State.

Hoping for a big off season by Haanif. He has all the tools to be something special/great

[MerrittsMustache]

NM

This thread was combined with another...oddly enough, also started by WarriorPride68.

Cut Haanif some slack. He's not a natural PG.

[WarriorPride68]

NM

This thread was combined with another...oddly enough, also started by WarriorPride68.

Cut Haanif some slack. He's not a natural PG.

What's the other thread I started on Haanif? I'm not ripping on him. Their stats

[Windyplayer]

Funny you mention that, when I saw this topic, I checked the infamous* point-forward's numbers, and he actually had a positive A/TO ratio the year Diener broke his hand...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/15238/marcus-jackson

* That's actually being rude to Marcus - he was one of the best ball handlers *left* on that team, but it wasn't what he signed up for (or what anyone would have thought he would be doing).

Edit:  Maybe I shouldn't trust ESPN stats, I just noticed on the page "Birth Date: September 18, 2003"  Apparently MJ was an infant in a 6-8 240 lb basketball beast body.

OMG. That brings back some dreadful memories. I can't believe we had to resort to him bringing the ball up.

[MerrittsMustache]

What's the other thread I started on Haanif? I'm not ripping on him. Their stats

This post...at the very top of this thread.

Has a guard who starts every game ever finished a season with more turnovers than assists? I couldn't find any phantom stats for Ast/TO ratio.


Cheatham is at 31 Ast / 37 TO


I like Cheatham, I'm just curious. Traci has 64 Ast / 30 TO for comparison.

What's your obsession with Haanif's A/TO ratio?

[WarriorPride68]

This post...at the very top of this thread.


What's your obsession with Haanif's A/TO ratio?

I have a thing for stats, nothing more. Was just looking at them this afternoon. Why are you so defensive? I didn't rip Haanif

Edit: this is the same thread i created back a month or two ago. Was just posting to update. No threads were combined, it's the same one

[RJax55]

I have a thing for stats, nothing more. Was just looking at them this afternoon. Why are you so defensive? I didn't rip Haanif

Edit: this is the same thread i created back a month or two ago. Was just posting to update. No threads were combined, it's the same one

To answer your original question, it has happened before at MU with some terrific players. Both McNeal and Matthews didn't post positive A/To ratios until their junior years.

And, if you think Haanif turns the ball over a lot, McNeal averaged 3.8 turnovers a game his freshman year. Currently, Haanif's at 2.9, playing at a slightly faster tempo.

[WarriorPride68]

To answer your original question, it has happened before at MU with some terrific players. Both McNeal and Matthews didn't posted positive A/To ratios until their junior years.

And, if you think Haanif turns the ball over a lot, McNeal averaged 3.8 turnovers a game his freshman year. Currently, Haanif's at 2.9, playing at a slightly faster tempo.

I appreciate the post. The Vander blue stats too confirmed that ast / to can be over blown, as that was a great year for the Warriors

[MerrittsMustache]

I have a thing for stats, nothing more. Was just looking at them this afternoon. Why are you so defensive? I didn't rip Haanif

Edit: this is the same thread i created back a month or two ago. Was just posting to update. No threads were combined, it's the same one

I guess I didn't realize it was the same thread. My apologies.

I'm not defensive. It's just odd to bring back up a topic (Haanif's A/TO) whose basis is pretty useless. That's all. He's an off-guard with more TOs than assists, which isn't all that uncommon. I don't understand the point of the update. I guess I should have just stayed away.

Cheers.

[Nukem2]

I guess I didn't realize it was the same thread. My apologies.

I'm not defensive. It's just odd to bring back up a topic (Haanif's A/TO) whose basis is pretty useless. That's all. He's an off-guard with more TOs than assists, which isn't all that uncommon. I don't understand the point of the update. I guess I should have just stayed away.

Cheers.

But, Haanif is playing a lot at PG.

[vogue65]

Very interesting comment by Wojo at post game interview.  We are a team that turns the ball over a lot.  We need it still find a way to win.  Amazing stuff, acceptance of reality and still wants to win.

Turnovers are a reality not a problem, you take the good with the bad.  Hustel, steals, whatever make up for turnovers???

[esotericmindguy]

Has a guard who starts every game ever finished a season with more turnovers than assists? I couldn't find any phantom stats for Ast/TO ratio.


Cheatham is at 31 Ast / 37 TO


I like Cheatham, I'm just curious. Traci has 64 Ast / 30 TO for comparison.

Traci is also shooting 32% from the field. Dreadful.

[bilsu]

I expect Haanif to be a four year player and he has a decent chance to be our first 2000 point scorer.

[brandx]

I guess I didn't realize it was the same thread. My apologies.

I'm not defensive. It's just odd to bring back up a topic (Haanif's A/TO) whose basis is pretty useless. That's all. He's an off-guard with more TOs than assists, which isn't all that uncommon. I don't understand the point of the update. I guess I should have just stayed away.

Cheers.

I think I am on your side here.

He is a 2G - but I would guess the vast majority of his TOs have come when he is playing point. He should be nowhere near the ball against the press until the ball gets to half court.

Haanif is a wing . I think the fact that Wojo played him at point says more about Duane's lack of PG skills than it does about than Haanif.

[Class71]

Traci is also shooting 32% from the field. Dreadful.

Is HE breaking 25% from 3?

[Jay Bee]

To answer your original question, it has happened before at MU with some terrific players. Both McNeal and Matthews didn't post positive A/To ratios until their junior years.

And, if you think Haanif turns the ball over a lot, McNeal averaged 3.8 turnovers a game his freshman year. Currently, Haanif's at 2.9, playing at a slightly faster tempo.

A/TO isn't very relevant, imo. It's marrying two stats... for what purpose?

Per game averages are silly as well... McNeal's 3.8 to Haanif's 2.9... so what? "A slightly faster tempo"...  how about minutes and total possessions played...  as a frosh, McNeal's turnover rate was 29%, but he was also a heavy-volume guy involved in plays (27% usage)... Haanif is only at a 21% usage, with a slightly lower turnover rate of 27.4...

Different players, different roles... but the 3.8 to 2.9 per game isn't the relevant measurement. Not to mention Jerel's figures include going through the full conference slate while Haanif's PT is weighted toward lesser competition, aina?

Haanif against top 100 kenpom opponents.. 33% turnover rate, same Ortg as Rel

No point really other than gotta be careful with "stats" that don't have a lot of meaning.. Haanif's turnover rate will improve over his time at MU

[MU82]

Their stats

Whose stats?

[bamamarquettefan]

Mayo had career totals of 119 assists and 140 turnovers.  But then again he never was really asked to run the offense.

Actually you are wrong. He was asked to run the offense on 13 trips down the court. All 13 times a defender flicked the ball away from him behind and then sprinted to the other end so the defender he flicked it too could throw it ahead for an uncontested dunk while Mayo jogged back discouraged.

Mayo's official offensive rating as a point guard was therefore a negative 200, indicated he would give up exactly 2 points every time he touched the ball as a point guard.

At least that's how I remember it!

Sorry, have trouble doing real on my phone.

[WarriorPride68]

Whose stats?

Auto correct on mobile. My apologies for that confusion.

[willie warrior]

I expect Haanif to be a four year player and he has a decent chance to be our first 2000 point scorer.

Ummmm...Ok....What about Wilson?

[bilsu]

Ummmm...Ok....What about Wilson?

Wilson does too, but I think he needed to score more this year. However, if he can keep up his recent pace his odds improve.