Cheatham

[WarriorPride68]

Has a guard who starts every game ever finished a season with more turnovers than assists? I couldn't find any phantom stats for Ast/TO ratio.


Cheatham is at 31 Ast / 37 TO


I like Cheatham, I'm just curious. Traci has 64 Ast / 30 TO for comparison.

[rocky_warrior]

This is where I miss the old statsheet.com - you could easily pull up data like that.

Has anyone found a suitable replacement for stats like they had?

[oldwarrior81]

Mayo had career totals of 119 assists and 140 turnovers.  But then again he never was really asked to run the offense.

in 2013 Vander had 62 assists and 79 turnovers.  Combine that with Lockett having 63 assists vs 65 TO's and Mayo having a .7 ast/to rate that same year, yet they somehow made the Elite 8.

[WarriorPride68]

Mayo had career totals of 119 assists and 140 turnovers.  But then again he never was really asked to run the offense.

in 2013 Vander had 62 assists and 79 turnovers.  Combine that with Lockett having 63 assists vs 65 TO's and Mayo having a .7 ast/to rate that same year, yet they somehow made the Elite 8.

Thank you!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

In the 90-91 season Marquette had no true point guard which forced SG Robb Logterman into being the primary ball handler.  Teams pressed us relentlessly and Robb finished with 85 assists and 87 turnovers. 

The silver lining was that this forced us recruit some kid named Tony Miller.

Does Haanif need to improve his ball security?  Of course.  But like Logterman, he is playing out of position when asked to run the point, it isn't something he even did in HS.

[GGGG]

Mayo had career totals of 119 assists and 140 turnovers.  But then again he never was really asked to run the offense.

in 2013 Vander had 62 assists and 79 turnovers.  Combine that with Lockett having 63 assists vs 65 TO's and Mayo having a .7 ast/to rate that same year, yet they somehow made the Elite 8.

That is hilarious.  Tells you how important A/TO is.

[WarriorPride68]

in 2013 Vander had 62 assists and 79 turnovers.

Didn't realize Traci had more assists in 14 games than Vander did in 34 games his junior year before declaring

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Didn't realize Traci had more assists in 14 games than Vander did in 34 games his junior year before declaring

Vander was never asked to be the PG.  Traci is.

[WarriorPride68]

Vander was never asked to be the PG.  Traci is.

Totally agree on that. I just wouldn't have guessed that

[GooooMarquette]

Check this out - back in '03-'04, every player on the roster other than Diener had more TOs than assists.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/year/2004/marquette-golden-eagles

[Marqevans]

Check this out - back in '03-'04, every player on the roster other than Diener had more TOs than assists.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/year/2004/marquette-golden-eagles

Maybe it's because they shot the ball well and didn't see the need to pass?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

That is hilarious.  Tells you how important A/TO is.

Also shows how valuable Cadougan was. Probably the most underrated player to play for Marquette in the past 6 years. Still don't understand why he got so much flack.

[mug644]

My sense is that Cheatham's turnovers are not principally coming when he's running the offense (at least now that he doesn't principally run the offense!). Rather--and I do think this is one knock against him--he seems to receive a pass and put his head down and head to the hoop, sort of like Jerel McNeal as a freshman and sophomore. His handle isn't a good as his focus, and that leads to turnovers. Like, Jerel, I assume he'll improve over the years, and I will remain optimistic about how important he could be to MU in the coming years. (I might also note that I feel that he seems to often only get the ball when the first option play--typically for Luke or Henry--has broken down, and the shot clock is running down; in that situation, it may not be so surprising that he's focused on getting a shot off.)

[GooooMarquette]

Maybe it's because they shot the ball well and didn't see the need to pass?

I wish.  Unfortunately, they shot .428 that season.  That's MU's second lowest shooting percentage in the new millenium.  The only season that was worse was '04-'05.

[Herman Cain]

Also shows how valuable Cadougan was. Probably the most underrated player to play for Marquette in the past 6 years. Still don't understand why he got so much flack.

As a senior he was a very good and fun to watch player. Along the way he was a little bit out of control and less fun to watch. We lost some winnable games because of him in the earlier days. I agree,on the whole, he was underrated.

[bilsu]

My sense is that Cheatham's turnovers are not principally coming when he's running the offense (at least now that he doesn't principally run the offense!). Rather--and I do think this is one knock against him--he seems to receive a pass and put his head down and head to the hoop, sort of like Jerel McNeal as a freshman and sophomore. His handle isn't a good as his focus, and that leads to turnovers. Like, Jerel, I assume he'll improve over the years, and I will remain optimistic about how important he could be to MU in the coming years. (I might also note that I feel that he seems to often only get the ball when the first option play--typically for Luke or Henry--has broken down, and the shot clock is running down; in that situation, it may not be so surprising that he's focused on getting a shot off.)

Statistically he is our best three point shooter, but he keeps passing up threes to drive to the hoop.

[Jay Bee]

Statistically he has made a higher percentage of his 3-point attempts is our best three point shooter, but he keeps passing up threes to drive to the hoop.

FIFY. There is a difference.

[GGGG]

Also shows how valuable Cadougan was. Probably the most underrated player to play for Marquette in the past 6 years. Still don't understand why he got so much flack.

Because he couldn't defend my grandmother.  I don't think he was all that underrated.  He was a good point guard for a S16 (junior) and E8 (senior) team.  The guy didn't make any All BE teams.  That's pretty much who he was.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Because he couldn't defend my grandmother.  I don't think he was all that underrated.  He was a good point guard for a S16 (junior) and E8 (senior) team.  The guy didn't make any All BE teams.  That's pretty much who he was.

And look how much we suffered after he left...I think of Vander stayed his senior year, he would be the one that ran the point that year.

[GGGG]

And look how much we suffered after he left...I think of Vander stayed his senior year, he would be the one that ran the point that year.

We suffered after he left because Buzz didn't recruit an adequate replacement.

[Dr. Blackheart]

We suffered after he left because Buzz didn't recruit an adequate replacement.

To be clear, Buzz did sign adequate replacements. TJ Taylor had eligibility/personal issues. Duane Wilson had a stress fracture and redshirted.Derrick was the back-up stopper. Vander and Mayo could have filled the Buycks combo guard role. Vander left and Mayo was a head case.

As a replacement to TJT, Buzz thought that he would get Nunn...and then the dorm incident and Pilarz happened...and MU hasn't been tapped into the Chicago scene since Teve (not counting Mache and remembering the Firestarter never signed).

[MU82]

Also shows how valuable Cadougan was. Probably the most underrated player to play for Marquette in the past 6 years. Still don't understand why he got so much flack.

I didn't start actively doing the Scoop thing until the second half of Junior's junior year. (Junior's junior year -- that's fun to say, BTW.) So I wasn't around to witness most of the crap he took on Scoop.

I appreciated the many fine moments he had, especially as a senior.

And yet as I have said before, I believe he should be the "floor" for the talent we should have at PG. He shouldn't be the best PG at Marquette in a 10-year period.

[wadesworld]

I would guess starting PG Markus Jackson probably had more turnovers than assists, ai'na?

[rocky_warrior]

I would guess starting PG Markus Jackson probably had more turnovers than assists, ai'na?

Funny you mention that, when I saw this topic, I checked the infamous* point-forward's numbers, and he actually had a positive A/TO ratio the year Diener broke his hand...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/15238/marcus-jackson

* That's actually being rude to Marcus - he was one of the best ball handlers *left* on that team, but it wasn't what he signed up for (or what anyone would have thought he would be doing).

Edit:  Maybe I shouldn't trust ESPN stats, I just noticed on the page "Birth Date: September 18, 2003"  Apparently MJ was an infant in a 6-8 240 lb basketball beast body.

[Hubert Davis]

All this talk of former players makes me sad... I miss winning ....

Just win baby!