Is Fischer really as bad as he looks

[rocket surgeon]

I guess I do not understand all the angst about Luke's play and nary a thread on Henry Ellenson's play. I do not dislike either guy, but HE seems to get a pass while Luke gets barraged with scorn in comparison. Ellenson is taller (by an inch) than Luke, is a burger boy, and is supposed to be a one-and-done. Yet, Ellenson has been awful shooting 3-pointers (and anything else beyond 10 feet), has disappeared in the first half of many games, and does not play near the basket much at all. Yet we have a threads about Luke's play but none on HE. Does not seem to add up.

stole my thoughts plus, when henry is a little down, he feels the need to try to carry the team and then actually hurts us by forcing shots.  it's like, well, i haven't scored much here, and he lowers his head and makes it clear that he is going to shoot regardless.  he hasn't played up against near the top talent of the league yet and his "freshman" is showing-that's ok.  i just hope he isn't getting caught up in the one and done thing and get a "michelle wie" pulled on him-you know hype hype hype, then....she became adequate-mediocre at best-she does have the best legs and posterior in the league though-heyna fellas?

   they cannot force him to develop-it will come.  so what if it takes 2 years.  i honestly think 3 would be perfect-is there some selfishness in there? probably, but don't get vander'ed or wie'd  what the hell is 1 or 2 more years to further a 15 year nba career ?? 

[NCMUFan]

It is just a wake up call of playing against talented, strong, tall front lines.  Fischer did not do worst than if Marquette kept feeding Otule and expected him to win the game for them.  The only way Marquette will win is with balanced scoring from all five players and by a variety of means.  If Marquette expects to win any other way it isn't going to happen because it is to easy to defend and the other teams have to much talent.  Marquette has a lot of talent.  Spread the scoring options, ways and means.

[rocket surgeon]

luke is going to be fine.  just needs a little more lower body strength and he'll be finishing a lot of those shots and getting the calls

[Stretchdeltsig]

Luke seems to be an awful shooter.  He doesn't finish underneath. At least he is consistent.  He misses close shots, ten foot shots and free throws.

Henry can do more, but, his poor shooting hurts us a lot.  He misses too much.  In my opinion, he plays like a freshman with good potential, but makes a lot of mistakes.  He is not good enough yet to dominate games.

Sadly, this Marquette team does not have a player that can take over a game.

[Skatastrophy]

HE plays like a freshman that's being *relied upon* to take over games. He ends up being forced the ball in some tough spots and he's expected to finish with it. I think in another month or two he will be going up harder and finishing with the ball point blank.

Luke very rarely goes straight up with the ball when he's point blank. He always tries to get an angle on his defender. If he were more aggressive and went straight into the teeth of the defense I think he'd end up with a higher shooting percentage, as well as a higher percentage of getting to the line.

[GGGG]

I don't understand the strategy of pounding the ball inside against teams that are physically bigger. I'm not going to bang on Luke or Henry because they are being asked to do things that I don't think are going to lead to success. Marquette did a good job in transition and is actually pretty quick at the guard position. Going small might be a better option than continuously pounding against a wall.

[1990Warrior]

They're not using the two bigs correctly, IMO. Luke struggled finishing against Presbyterian, and is struggling with contact in a huge way. Yet, they force feed him on the block, and vacate that side which gives the opposition license to help with no repercussions. Henry just goes wherever the fook he wants, which hasn't worked at all.

They need to treat Henry like a true stretch 4. He's dynamite catching in the high post, or baseline wide. Give him room to operate, rather than constantly going into traffic. They also need to figure out ways to keep Fischer mobile. Screen across. Run some high low action. Pick and roll. Anything that makes the defender move with him and create some space.

Marquette's halfcourt offense is so easy to guard right now. The ball goes inside, and doesn't come out. And as long as you put a body on a big, chances are they'll miss. Hard to win that way.

Good analysis: Time for some self analysis and adjustments by Wojo.  I would add that they need to work on how to feed the bigs.  Should be able to improve this season.

[rocket surgeon]

Just like football, we need to be able to have some success inside in order for a chance from 15 feet and out. Not necessarily 3's , but a nice mid-range, higher percentage shot and vice versa/outside-in

[MU82]

i still like going inside as a rule but I want our bigs to kick it back out when they don't have a legit opportunity. Maybe that is part of the plan but Hank and Luke don't know what "legit" means?

One thing about Hank is that you can almost always tell when he has made up his mind that "It's my turn to score." It makes him relatively easy to defend because a pass isn't gonna happen. He and Deonte would have made quite a pair, especially given that Duane and Haanif have some of that in them, too.

Part of it will be more maturity, and part of it will come with better coaching. I am a big Wojo fan, but he's a relative neophyte, too.

[bilsu]

The only criticism of Luke I have (and it really more of a criticism of Wojo, because it is coaching) is that Fischer should be passing the ball out and reestablishing himself. You can see where Fischer decides he is going to shoot no matter what. He backs his defender down and then takes a difficult shot over the defender. He did this against Seton Hall in the second half several times and against Georgetown. So far in the Big East the defender can physically hold his position and not get called for a foul. I am okay with that, but it is really a big contrast to not being able to touch a guard without fouling.

[6746jonesr]

My take on Luke is that he will continue to improve, but his lack of strength really does affect his finishing at the basket.  I think many on this board don't realize that he has been hurt every summer (or recovering from surgery) every summer he has been here.  Shoulder surgery has definitely hurt his physical development, especially that which occurs between seasons.  I think he will have a very strong year next season, especially with the availability of a dead eye shooter who will be eligible in the fall.

[GooooMarquette]

I don't understand the strategy of pounding the ball inside against teams that are physically bigger. I'm not going to bang on Luke or Henry because they are being asked to do things that I don't think are going to lead to success. Marquette did a good job in transition and is actually pretty quick at the guard position. Going small might be a better option than continuously pounding against a wall.

I agree to a point.  I'd like to see MU continue to pound it into Luke and Henry...as long as they give them an outlet.  As Brew mentioned last night, we often got it into Luke without providing a guy on the perimeter on that side, so he had no choice but to force a shot.  If we put a guy like Sandy, JJJ or Duane in the corner on the side where Luke gets the ball, he has an option to kick it back out...either for a 3 or a chance to reset the offense.

[Herman Cain]

i still like going inside as a rule but I want our bigs to kick it back out when they don't have a legit opportunity. Maybe that is part of the plan but Hank and Luke don't know what "legit" means?

One thing about Hank is that you can almost always tell when he has made up his mind that "It's my turn to score." It makes him relatively easy to defend because a pass isn't gonna happen. He and Deonte would have made quite a pair, especially given that Duane and Haanif have some of that in them, too.

Part of it will be more maturity, and part of it will come with better coaching. I am a big Wojo fan, but he's a relative neophyte, too.

Completely agree

[Herman Cain]

My take on Luke is that he will continue to improve, but his lack of strength really does affect his finishing at the basket.  I think many on this board don't realize that he has been hurt every summer (or recovering from surgery) every summer he has been here.  Shoulder surgery has definitely hurt his physical development, especially that which occurs between seasons.  I think he will have a very strong year next season, especially with the availability of a dead eye shooter who will be eligible in the fall.

I felt that Luke came back too early this summer. He should not have played in Italy and instead focused on rehab and strengthening through September

[AZMarqfan]

Luke is not as big as he needs to be.  Playing the bigs on G'Town, Xavier, etc, he's going to get pushed around as they outweigh him by a lot.  He's just not as thick as he needs to get to.  I'd also like to see Marquette try the Andy Enfield (aka Dunk City) approach of having him keep the ball high.  When he gets rebounds, he tends to duck, get low, and then try to go up.  But he gets blocked a lot.  I'd rather he just stay tall and keep the ball high.  Loved his moves yesterday, especially the pick-and-rolls. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Most of Luke's shots near the basket seemed to hit low on the front of the rim.  Thought he is backing away from contact rather than initiating it.I  See him developing strength and making that change

[Class71]

Can someone tell me who was the last Marquette big that played well? I'm talking about someone over 6' 7".

Remember we still won without legitimate bigs. To have a Luke is a real plus although he has limitations. Luke can not carry this team nor can HE. HE gets all the press and fan support but in BE play he shows he is just another freshman. Our biggest problem  has been well documented and need not be repeated again. But how about a 3 point shooter who opens up the middle, how about someone who can drive the ball without losing it, how about players that guard closer than 10 feet or get lost, how about fast, crisp passing? Are these all Luke's fault? Yes we have problems but to single one player out is unfair. Our problems are much greater that playing JJJ more, bulking up Luke or changing the coach. We need a team that implements the basics of basketball.

The good news is in the second half MU showed this team is really trying and angry.  Wojo et. al. can teach the basics. Hopefully they will listen, fight back and never , never yield. Success comes with recognizing issues and working on them until they are addressed.

[GGGG]

Can someone tell me who was the last Marquette big that played well? I'm talking about someone over 6' 7".

Davante Gardner played well.  Luke Fischer by and large is playing well too.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Luke is just soft as is HE. Can't finish over or through tough straight up defense consistently. Luke is who he is. Henry could learn, but likely will do so in the NBA.

How about criticizing our team, you go celebrate on your own borard? How's that potential 3 seed working out for you?

[Class71]

Davante Gardner played well.  Luke Fischer by and large is playing well too.

Agree on Davante's offense, but like Luke, Davante also had issues but we all loved his game while we climb all over Luke. I think folks expect a big to carry the team this year ... not going to happen. Similarly Davante could not carry the team in his last year.

[GGGG]

Agree on Davante's offense, but like Luke, Davante also had issues but we all loved his game while we climb all over Luke. I think folks expect a big to carry the team this year ... not going to happen. Similarly Davante could not carry the team in his last year.

Right.  If people are placing the blame on the first two games on one person, they are missing something.  No one has really been good.

[Class71]

Agree, but somehow there was a spark in the second half that said to me there is hope they can get their act together. I hope that anger at themselves, because of failure, is far too painful and it pushes them to do what we believe they can do. Sometimes failures lead to success. Sometimes some just fold their tent. I do not think this group will do that.

[hoyasincebirth]

How about criticizing our team, you go celebrate on your own borard? How's that potential 3 seed working out for you?

Poorly.

[Loose Cannon]

Luke looked small tonight.   To his credit, he kept attacking.   He was continuously bumped and didn't get a call.   He needs to learn to be the aggressor and finish through contact.   But I won't fault his effort.

Agree

[Hubert Davis]

Luke is arguably our best player. He didn't finish through contact very well against G-town but he will be fine. We need to keep feeding him in the post and he needs to start going at the rim with a little more authority.

Just win baby.