Georgetown Is Not Good

[Tugg Speedman]

They lost to UNC Asheville

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400840259

Georgetown is now 6,5 and DePaul must be thinking they will not be in last place this year.

[Lennys Tap]

JT III and the Hoyas disappoint regularly. Hoyasincebirth is in for another "underachieving" year.

[MU82]

Soooo tempted to drive the 6 hours to DC for the Jan. 2 game.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Paid attendance of 7467. Yikes.  That said, they have too much young talent not to improve over break.  MU has had some stinkers this year too, although Wojo has turned that around when MU hit bottom. I think MU and GU will be battling it out in the 4-6 range in conference.

[DFW HOYA]

Paid attendance of 7467. Yikes. 

That's an improvement over the 4,062, 4,590, and 5,258 figures from the three other games.

Fans vote with their wallets: Georgetown has lost a third of its ticket base since the Big East rebooted.

[Tugg Speedman]

Paid attendance of 7467. Yikes.  That said, they have too much young talent not to improve over break.  MU has had some stinkers this year too, although Wojo has turned that around when MU hit bottom. I think MU and GU will be battling it out in the 4-6 range in conference.

What part of this record says top 4 in the BE? (note their best win, Syracuse, is now in full collapse)

at, Nov 14 vs Radford    L    82-80 2OT   0-1 (0-0)
Tue, Nov 17 @ #3 Maryland  L  75-71   0-2 (0-0)
Fri, Nov 20 vs  Wisconsin*    W 71-61   1-2 (0-0)
Sun, Nov 22 vs #5 Duke*     L   86-84   1-3 (0-0)
Sat, Nov 28  vs Bryant         W  77-47   2-3 (0-0)
Tue, Dec 1 vs Maryland-ES   W  68-49   3-3 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 5  vs #14 Syracuse W 79-72     4-3 (0-0)
Mon, Dec 7 vs  Brown            W 74-57   5-3 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 12 vs UNC Wil         W  87-82   6-3 (0-0)
Tue, Dec 15 vs Monmouth     L   83-68   6-4 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 19 vs UNC Asheville L  79-73   6-5 (0-0)



Tue, Dec 22 @ Charlotte   7:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network
Wed, Dec 30 @ DePaul    9:00 PM ET FOX Sports 1

[Tugg Speedman]

That's an improvement over the 4,062, 4,590, and 5,258 figures from the three other games.

Fans vote with their wallets: Georgetown has lost a third of its ticket base since the Big East rebooted.

Not the fault of the reboot, GU keeps putting a crappy product on the floor.

They would have lost a third under the old BE with this record.

[MU82]

What part of this record says top 4 in the BE? (note their best win, Syracuse, is now in full collapse)

at, Nov 14 vs Radford    L    82-80 2OT   0-1 (0-0)
Tue, Nov 17 @ #3 Maryland  L  75-71   0-2 (0-0)
Fri, Nov 20 vs  Wisconsin*    W 71-61   1-2 (0-0)
Sun, Nov 22 vs #5 Duke*     L   86-84   1-3 (0-0)
Sat, Nov 28  vs Bryant         W  77-47   2-3 (0-0)
Tue, Dec 1 vs Maryland-ES   W  68-49   3-3 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 5  vs #14 Syracuse W 79-72     4-3 (0-0)
Mon, Dec 7 vs  Brown            W 74-57   5-3 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 12 vs UNC Wil         W  87-82   6-3 (0-0)
Tue, Dec 15 vs Monmouth     L   83-68   6-4 (0-0)
Sat, Dec 19 vs UNC Asheville L  79-73   6-5 (0-0)



Tue, Dec 22 @ Charlotte   7:00 PM ET CBS Sports Network
Wed, Dec 30 @ DePaul    9:00 PM ET FOX Sports 1

GT's best games were its wins over Syracuse and Wisconsin (both of which were overrated at the time) and, probably moreso, its narrow losses to Maryland and Duke. Losing at home to Radford, Monmouth and Asheville ... wow. Oh, and losing at home in two weeks to Marquette, too!!

[DFW HOYA]

Not the fault of the reboot, GU keeps putting a crappy product on the floor.

There's a trend here and it's not just this season.

2007-08: 12,955   
2008-09: 12,826   
2009-10: 12,040   
2010-11: 12,675   
2011-12: 11,283   
2012-13: 10,911   
2013-14: 8,670   
2014-15: 9,630
2015-16: 7,988

[brewcity77]

I think it's just about time for JTIII to go. Granted, Radford, UNC-Asheville, and (especially) Monmouth are better cupcakes than we've faced, but they've underachieved for years. He's 3-6 in the NCAAs since his Final Four run and hasn't been out of the first weekend since 2007. Reality is he got a Sweet 16 and Final Four run in his first three years and hasn't really achieved success since. For a school that's supposed to be one of our flagships, they need to be better.

Now admittedly, we've underachieved since the reformation of the Big East, but everyone knows this is a total rebuild. GT is trying to sell a young core and a star in DSR and they still aren't winning. And it doesn't help that their wins over UW and Syracuse look less and less impressive as the weeks go on.

Problem is, he's got that last name, and I can't see them every firing John Thompson, even if he's a pale shadow of the real John Thompson.

[Tugg Speedman]

The bolded part explains GU's attendence.

                                RPI           KenPom
2007-08: 12,955                                8
2008-09: 12,826                                 24
2009-10: 12,040                                 16
2010-11: 12,675           16                   36
2011-12: 11,283           13                   16
2012-13: 10,911           10                   12
2013-14: 8,670            66                    65
2014-15: 9,630               25                   24
2015-16: 7,988               165                 66

[Babybluejeans]

The bolded part explains GU's attendence.

                                RPI           KenPom
2007-08: 12,955                                8
2008-09: 12,826                                 24
2009-10: 12,040                                 16
2010-11: 12,675           16                   36
2011-12: 11,283           13                   16
2012-13: 10,911           10                   12
2013-14: 8,670            66                    65
2014-15: 9,630               25                   24
2015-16: 7,988               165                 66

That's hugely relevant. But you can't possibly suggest attendance wasn't impacted by losing yearly conference games against UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, Cincy, and, hell, even WVU. The product is the biggest factor but the composition of the new Big East is a factor, too.

[Tugg Speedman]

That's hugely relevant. But you can't possibly suggest attendance wasn't impacted by losing yearly conference games against UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, Cincy, and, hell, even WVU. The product is the biggest factor but the composition of the new Big East is a factor, too.

So all the New BE teams are seeing their attendance fall?

[4everwarriors]

Soooo tempted to drive the 6 hours to DC for the Jan. 2 game.

Go for it, kin. May da Force be with ya, ai na?

[GOO]

I think it's just about time for JTIII to go. Granted, Radford, UNC-Asheville, and (especially) Monmouth are better cupcakes than we've faced, but they've underachieved for years. He's 3-6 in the NCAAs since his Final Four run and hasn't been out of the first weekend since 2007. Reality is he got a Sweet 16 and Final Four run in his first three years and hasn't really achieved success since. For a school that's supposed to be one of our flagships, they need to be better.

Now admittedly, we've underachieved since the reformation of the Big East, but everyone knows this is a total rebuild. GT is trying to sell a young core and a star in DSR and they still aren't winning. And it doesn't help that their wins over UW and Syracuse look less and less impressive as the weeks go on.

Problem is, he's got that last name, and I can't see them every firing John Thompson, even if he's a pale shadow of the real John Thompson.

Exactly.  I think it is called the Joey Meyer problem.  JTIII resigning is the best for all parties, but that won't happen.  I've thought this for a couple of season.  Maybe he can turn it around, but this will probably be DePaul/Joey Meyer all over again.

[Babybluejeans]

So all the New BE teams are seeing their attendance fall?

If I remember correct, I think every Catholic 7 school saw a drop in attendance after the formation of the new Big East. But--and this is a point you seem to ignore--no one's suggesting the on-court product isn't the biggest reason in falling attendance. To suggest it's the ONLY reason, at least for schools like Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette, that's silly. Opponents matter.

[jsglow]

If I remember correct, I think every Catholic 7 school saw a drop in attendance after the formation of the new Big East. But--and this is a point you seem to ignore--no one's suggesting the on-court product isn't the biggest reason in falling attendance. To suggest it's the ONLY reason, at least for schools like Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette, that's silly. Opponents matter.

Yep.  The heyday won't be replicated.  But solid on court performance maximizes the potential.

[Tugg Speedman]

If I remember correct, I think every Catholic 7 school saw a drop in attendance after the formation of the new Big East. But--and this is a point you seem to ignore--no one's suggesting the on-court product isn't the biggest reason in falling attendance. To suggest it's the ONLY reason, at least for schools like Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette, that's silly. Opponents matter.

What you see is a larger issue with college basketball and you're incorrectly blaming the BE for it.

All NCAA D1 has approx 5,000 games a year.  225 to 250 neutral court games.

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf

Year               All D1 games                  Neutral court games
2015                    4,754                                   6,381
2014                    4,817                                   6,854
2013                    4,921                                   7,091
2012                    4,994                                   7,219
2011                    5,025                                   7,610
2010                    5,038                                   7,551
2009                    5,185                                   7,213
2008                    5,325                                   7,379
2007                    5,327                                   7,968

Since 2011 all college basketball attendence has lost 11% of its attendance, 20% for neutral court games!  Has the new Big East, in total, declined by more than 11%?

Why?  I think three reasons:

1) proliferation of HD TVs and HD broadcasts since 2007

2) New sports contracts and TV networks so now virtually every game is broadcast nationally (in HD)

3) John Calipari and Coach K.  The one and done model is hurting the casual viewers interest.  Once they learn who the stars are, they leave.  No continuity from year to year for the causal fan.

[MarquetteDano]

1) proliferation of HD TVs and HD broadcasts since 2007

2) New sports contracts and TV networks so now virtually every game is broadcast nationally (in HD)

3) John Calipari and Coach K.  The one and done model is hurting the casual viewers interest.  Once they learn who the stars are, they leave.  No continuity from year to year for the causal fan.

4. As Chicos pointed out in another post, the economy has had an impact as well.

[jesmu84]

What you see is a larger issue with college basketball and you're incorrectly blaming the BE for it.

All NCAA D1 has approx 5,000 games a year.  225 to 250 neutral court games.

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf

Year               All D1 games                  Neutral court games
2015                    4,754                                   6,381
2014                    4,817                                   6,854
2013                    4,921                                   7,091
2012                    4,994                                   7,219
2011                    5,025                                   7,610
2010                    5,038                                   7,551
2009                    5,185                                   7,213
2008                    5,325                                   7,379
2007                    5,327                                   7,968

Since 2011 all college basketball attendence has lost 11% of its attendance, 20% for neutral court games!  Has the new Big East, in total, declined by more than 11%?

Why?  I think three reasons:

1) proliferation of HD TVs and HD broadcasts since 2007

2) New sports contracts and TV networks so now virtually every game is broadcast nationally (in HD)

3) John Calipari and Coach K.  The one and done model is hurting the casual viewers interest.  Once they learn who the stars are, they leave.  No continuity from year to year for the causal fan.

Does that mean you've revised your initial hypothesis that the reason for Gtown's declining attendance is due to the "crappy product on the floor"?

[wadesworld]

If I remember correct, I think every Catholic 7 school saw a drop in attendance after the formation of the new Big East. But--and this is a point you seem to ignore--no one's suggesting the on-court product isn't the biggest reason in falling attendance. To suggest it's the ONLY reason, at least for schools like Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette, that's silly. Opponents matter.

This is Heisenberg's thread.  Don't be surprised in the least bit that he'll ignore the parts that would lead to a mutual agreement just so that he can keep you coming back for more clicks and more responses in his thread.  Scoop is his personal popularity contest, won by responses within threads started by a poster.

Having said all that, is he the one who also started a thread saying Iowa wasn't good when they lost an exhibition game?  That one worked out well for Marquette too...

[wadesworld]

Does that mean you've revised your initial hypothesis that the reason for Gtown's declining attendance is due to the "crappy product on the floor"?

It means he wants more clicks so if someone agrees with what he said, he'll go and say the opposite thing just to get more of an argument and more responses.

[Tugg Speedman]

Does that mean you've revised your initial hypothesis that the reason for Gtown's declining attendance is due to the "crappy product on the floor"?

All college basketball attendance is down 11%

Georgetown is down 39% over the same period.

So the first 11% is the larger CBB trend, the rest is Georgetown's crappy product.

[Skatastrophy]

All college basketball attendance is down 11%

Georgetown is down 39% over the same period.

So the first 11% is the larger CBB trend, the rest is Georgetown's crappy product.

That's not not how causation works.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's hugely relevant. But you can't possibly suggest attendance wasn't impacted by losing yearly conference games against UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, Cincy, and, hell, even WVU. The product is the biggest factor but the composition of the new Big East is a factor, too.

Looks to me like they started losing attendance before the new Big East came into being.