BC Atmosphere

[keefe]

There is no way in hell we would ever return to The Arena, or a venue the size of The Arena.  Marquette already sells more season tickets than The Arena can hold. 

The alleged advantage a smaller venue would contribute pales in comparison that the millions of dollars in additional ticket sales does.  I would prefer that the program focus on putting out a product that fills up their current place.

I have been a season ticket holder for a number of years, and we have always gotten good crowds  at all of the important games.  Will a few additional butts in the nosebleed seats really make a difference in our W-L record? 

And with all due respect, Keefe, I am not sure you have the best frame of reference to lecture Marquette on how to improve their game day experience.  When was the last time you attended a home game?  IIRC, you have stated previously that you haven't set foot in Milwaukee in decades.

Don't confuse revenue generation with having what Al called a snake pit. Because I think we lost our home court advantage by moving to the cavernous BC.

And for what it is worth I have been in Milwaukee on and off over the years. My wife was from there and she was involved with the basketball program so I have been to games at the BC. Unfortunately, I spent most of the past decade in Iraq and Afghanistan so I wasn't able to make any games.

[GGGG]

My intuitive guess is that, if you normalize against how good a team Marquette has, that we have performed pretty much just as well in the Arena as we have the BC.

[keefe]

My intuitive guess is that, if you normalize against how good a team Marquette has, that we have performed pretty much just as well in the Arena as we have the BC.

I think a lot of the discussion deflects from the main point which is Marquette once had a huge environmentally-derived home court advantage - one of the best in the nation - which has long since been lost.

Gonzaga had the opportunity to play in a public-funded multi-purpose cavern but instead chose to build the Dog Pound on campus. The 6,000 seat MAC is an incredible place to watch a game. 

I am not arguing that MU should replicate the MAC but there is no comparison in game experience between Cameron, the MAC, Rupp, Cintas, Allen, Kohl and a place like the BC.

[jsglow]

Don't confuse revenue generation with having what Al called a snake pit. Because I think we lost our home court advantage by moving to the cavernous BC.

And for what it is worth I have been in Milwaukee on and off over the years. My wife was from there and she was involved with the basketball program so I have been to games at the BC. Unfortunately, I spent most of the past decade in Iraq and Afghanistan so I wasn't able to make any games.

No excuse keefe!  You could have flown for 15 yours, ubered to the game and flown back using one day's leave.   

[GGGG]

I think a lot of the discussion deflects from the main point which is Marquette once had a huge environmentally-derived home court advantage - one of the best in the nation - which has long since been lost.

Gonzaga had the opportunity to play in a public-funded multi-purpose cavern but instead chose to build the Dog Pound on campus. The 6,000 seat MAC is an incredible place to watch a game. 

I am not arguing that MU should replicate the MAC but there is no comparison in game experience between Cameron, the MAC, Rupp, Cintas, Allen, Kohl and a place like the BC.

But this is where you lose me.  I have been to the Kohl Center about a dozen times for UW games.  Bad opponents lead to listless and bored crowds.  A quiet atmosphere.  (Though one with better seating than the BC.)  Good opponents lead to an electric and exciting atmosphere. 

I think you are buying into hype versus what the reality is.  The BC is a dead place for Jackson State.  The BC can be an electric place for good teams.  I have experienced that.

And you keep saying stuff like Marquette once had a "huge environmentally-derived home court advantage" at the Arena without showing any evidence that this actually was the case.

[brewcity77]

This whole point is moot. We'll be out of the BC in three years. Any sweeping changes to improve the environment will have to take place at the new arena.

[keefe]

But this is where you lose me.  I have been to the Kohl Center about a dozen times for UW games.  Bad opponents lead to listless and bored crowds.  A quiet atmosphere.  (Though one with better seating than the BC.)  Good opponents lead to an electric and exciting atmosphere. 

I think you are buying into hype versus what the reality is.  The BC is a dead place for Jackson State.  The BC can be an electric place for good teams.  I have experienced that.

And you keep saying stuff like Marquette once had a "huge environmentally-derived home court advantage" at the Arena without showing any evidence that this actually was the case.

We were sold out for years and we went several seasons without losing a home game. In fact, Marquette's home winning streak was longer than UCLA's total winning streak.

Here is my proof, though: Al McGuire coined the expression "Snake Pit" to describe Marquette's home court advantage at the Arena. He said it was the toughest place in the nation for a visiting team to play. I'll stand on that any day.

[jsglow]

But this is where you lose me.  I have been to the Kohl Center about a dozen times for UW games.  Bad opponents lead to listless and bored crowds.  A quiet atmosphere.  (Though one with better seating than the BC.)  Good opponents lead to an electric and exciting atmosphere. 

I think you are buying into hype versus what the reality is.  The BC is a dead place for Jackson State.  The BC can be an electric place for good teams.  I have experienced that.

And you keep saying stuff like Marquette once had a "huge environmentally-derived home court advantage" at the Arena without showing any evidence that this actually was the case.

I'll mention 4 in the last few years.  Bucky in 2012, Big Monday against Syracuse, GTown for the original 'I Believe' chant, and ND the last game of the year.  I know 3 of those opponents are gone but as our program improves the energy will return.

You want to hear silence?  About the 10 minute mark against Iowa a few weeks back.

[GGGG]

We were sold out for years and we went several seasons without losing a home game. In fact, Marquette's home winning streak was longer than UCLA's total winning streak.

Here is my proof, though: Al McGuire coined the expression "Snake Pit" to describe Marquette's home court advantage at the Arena. He said it was the toughest place in the nation for a visiting team to play. I'll stand on that any day.

Right.  Marquette had an incredibly good team.  Just prior to the 2013-14 season opener, Marquette had the longest home winning streak in the country...you know...at the Bradley Center.

Good teams win a lot at home.

[GGGG]

Look keefe, if you like the atmosphere at Gonzaga and wish Marquette still played in a more intimate environment, that's great.  But when you say stuff like "BC offers nothing for the home team," it is hard to take you seriously because that is simply false.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So your answer to almost 1,000 person drop in attendance is that some people don't like squirmy? You just had to put some pointless shot at Buzz in there?

You don't think NCAA tournament impacts attendance for the following year though?

Well what do you say is the second most successful stretch? Buzz in four years had 122 wins in five years Tom Crean from 2002 to 06 had 111 wins. Tom Crean had 107 wins in the five years prior to Buzz.  Outside of that there's really not any competition for a five year stretch. Even if you included the last year where he was terrible he still has a higher win total than any 6 year stretch of Tom Crean. He was better regular season and tournament than any other coach since Al which means it was the second most successful stretch.

Nope, apparently you aren't reading again. 

[MU82]

I think some are confusing results vs atmosphere. Most who have seen numerous games at both the Arena and the BC -- and I'm talking both "good" opponents and "bad" opponents -- would agree that the Arena had the better basketball atmosphere. It wasn't cavernous, it was more intimate, the percentage of seats filled by students was greater, etc. As Crash said, Al called it a snakepit. He would never call the BC a snakepit, even if we had a great crowd for a great game. Doesn't mean a good team shouldn't win at home.

I agree we're probably never going back to a smaller, more intimate arena, though.

As for "bad" opponents failing to draw much of a crowd at all -- and those who do go don't help elevate the atmosphere above "dead" ...

My one trip to Allen Fieldhouse was on Dec. 30, 2003. It was for a Kansas-Binghamton game over Xmas break and the Jayhawks were coming off a very disappointing loss to Nevada. It was sold out and the atmosphere was amazing.

Yes, I know that Kansas is Kansas, we'll never be Kansas, and there's nothing else to do in Lawrence. Just saying that there are plenty of fanbases that don't mail it in just because the opponent sucks.

[GGGG]

I think some are confusing results vs atmosphere. Most who have seen numerous games at both the Arena and the BC -- and I'm talking both "good" opponents and "bad" opponents -- would agree that the Arena had the better basketball atmosphere. It wasn't cavernous, it was more intimate, the percentage of seats filled by students was greater, etc. As Crash said, Al called it a snakepit. He would never call the BC a snakepit, even if we had a great crowd for a great game. Doesn't mean a good team shouldn't win at home.

Oh I agree with this.  It's when you start equating the "atmosphere" with the results is where I start to get uncomfortable.

[keefe]

Look keefe, if you like the atmosphere at Gonzaga and wish Marquette still played in a more intimate environment, that's great.  But when you say stuff like "BC offers nothing for the home team," it is hard to take you seriously because that is simply false.

This isn't a zero-sum equation. I believe that the Arena was a great venue to watch Marquette basketball. Every single game was sold out and the crowd was a factor in the game. Al said that the fans were a benefit and contributed to the winning.

I don't think the BC offers that same atmosphere. And, unlike at the Arena, which was always sold out the BC is rarely so.

You disagree and that's fine. I wasn't looking for victory but, rather, to express an opinion.

[keefe]

I think some are confusing results vs atmosphere. Most who have seen numerous games at both the Arena and the BC -- and I'm talking both "good" opponents and "bad" opponents -- would agree that the Arena had the better basketball atmosphere. It wasn't cavernous, it was more intimate, the percentage of seats filled by students was greater, etc. As Crash said, Al called it a snakepit. He would never call the BC a snakepit, even if we had a great crowd for a great game. Doesn't mean a good team shouldn't win at home.

I agree we're probably never going back to a smaller, more intimate arena, though.

As for "bad" opponents failing to draw much of a crowd at all -- and those who do go don't help elevate the atmosphere above "dead" ...

My one trip to Allen Fieldhouse was on Dec. 30, 2003. It was for a Kansas-Binghamton game over Xmas break and the Jayhawks were coming off a very disappointing loss to Nevada. It was sold out and the atmosphere was amazing.

Yes, I know that Kansas is Kansas, we'll never be Kansas, and there's nothing else to do in Lawrence. Just saying that there are plenty of fanbases that don't mail it in just because the opponent sucks.

I agree with this. And I also remember the time when we showed up for every game and made our presence known - whether it was Notre Dame, Marathon Oil, or Stetson.

The great venues are jammed to the rafters and the fans are a part of the game. MU fans - students & alums - seem to pick and choose their moments these days. That wasn't always the case and the Marquette basketball experience is lesser for that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Supply and demand. Always been the case.  The BC is too damn big for us, but the Arena is too damn small.  Thus the issue.  We did the math, many times....from a revenue perspective when I was there in the department.

Imagine being the director of marketing trying to put those butts in the seats when the team was not even going to the NIT, let alone NCAA tournament and the place held 19,000 fans.  A challenge, to be sure. 

[mu03eng]

Seems like people are debating two different things:  Atmosphere and attendance.

Atmosphere is always going to depending on three things:  quality of home team, quality of opponent and physical characteristics of the venue.  Sure having 17000 in the BC versus 11000 could make for a bigger atmosphere but that's more about enthusiasm and acoustics then the number of people.

Attendance is going to be a different monster and that is about quality of experience to put butts in seats so MU/building owners maximize their revenue.  Attendance is driven by different (but some overlapping) factors: quality of home team, quality of opponent, entertainment option competition, attendance experience, watching the game at home experience.

First two are obvious and most within MU's control.  The 3rd (entertainment options) are why you can't compare a Duke, Zags, or even Madison to Marquette.  Milwaukee has a million more options for the entertainment dollar than say Spokane or Durham. Marquette is competing with concerts, Bucks, and Admirals within their own building for entertainment dollar let alone UWM, Wave, MSO, etc. So that's always going to be head win other schools like Creighton or Gonzaga or Duke don't have.

The attendance experience is something they are working on in the BC and will be vastly improved with the new arena.  They have new food and drink options in the BC that make going to the game more interesting(and more expensive but one thing at a time), that will be further improved with the new arena having new concessions and great sight lines and good seats (WITH CUP HOLDERS IF THERE IS A GOD).

The last item, at game versus home watching, that's something everyone is struggling with as sports network are putting any content they can grab on TV.  The BC just added WiFi a couple of weeks ago, which is good but should have been done 5 years ago.  Access to replays for the game I'm at as well as games of other consequence is the next step.  Having access to real time stats is another step that could be taken or maybe they even have an in house play analysis channel I can get where they walk me through how a played work.....basically deliver content that I can get at home but at the game and I'm much more likely to go to the game because I can see the game live, get the game experience AND get all the stuff I would get at home.  Marquette needs to work with the Bucks folks to develop some of this content (think BMOBC in game app) and the associated revenue streams that can come with it.

At least that's the way I see it

[mu03eng]

I agree with this. And I also remember the time when we showed up for every game and made our presence known - whether it was Notre Dame, Marathon Oil, or Stetson.

The great venues are jammed to the rafters and the fans are a part of the game. MU fans - students & alums - seem to pick and choose their moments these days. That wasn't always the case and the Marquette basketball experience is lesser for that.

Don't think that is unique to Marquette....it's true of a lot of college programs and even some pro teams.

[Pakuni]

Right.  Marquette had an incredibly good team.  Just prior to the 2013-14 season opener, Marquette had the longest home winning streak in the country...you know...at the Bradley Center.

Good teams win a lot at home.

Yep.
And I think "atmosphere" is pretty far down the list as to why home court offers an advantage. More important is the lack of travel, familiarity with the arena and the shooting background, and referee bias (which one, I suppose, could argue is created in part by atmosphere) all weigh more heavily than how much the fans are into the game.
Let's face it, as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, we're really not that important and don't do much to influence games.

[Litehouse]

When the BC is rocking for a big game the place is great.  When you take into account other stuff that goes into the gameday experience, like alcohol options, food options, surrounding bar/restaurant/hotel scene, and throw in proximity to campus and proximity to downtown working alumni base, I can't think of a single school with a better set-up.  It's a different gameday experience than the stereotypical college atmosphere, more of a college/NBA hybrid, but it's a great fit for Marquette and part of what makes us unique.

[mu03eng]

When the BC is rocking for a big game the place is great.  When you take into account other stuff that goes into the gameday experience, like alcohol options, food options, surrounding bar/restaurant/hotel scene, and throw in proximity to campus and proximity to downtown working alumni base, I can't think of a single school with a better set-up.  It's a different gameday experience than the stereotypical college atmosphere, more of a college/NBA hybrid, but it's a great fit for Marquette and part of what makes us unique.

Agreed

[Galway Eagle]

Nope, apparently you aren't reading again.

Nope it's still not the second most successful stretch because you don't want it to be?

[jsglow]

When the BC is rocking for a big game the place is great.  When you take into account other stuff that goes into the gameday experience, like alcohol options, food options, surrounding bar/restaurant/hotel scene, and throw in proximity to campus and proximity to downtown working alumni base, I can't think of a single school with a better set-up.  It's a different gameday experience than the stereotypical college atmosphere, more of a college/NBA hybrid, but it's a great fit for Marquette and part of what makes us unique.

+1

[mu_hilltopper]

Wait .. the BC has added wi-fi?   I swear I checked the networks a month ago .. must have missed it.  In the bowl?

[jsglow]

Wait .. the BC has added wi-fi?   I swear I checked the networks a month ago .. must have missed it.  In the bowl?

Yep.  Couple weeks back.