Iowa thoughts

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or maybe player rankings mean nothing especially when it's based AAU.  o'Neill played freshman against top teams like Duke and they never were humiliated like this.  At some point coaching and preparation needs to be scrutinized.  I will admit that Iowa was very good tonight.

No argument from me, player rankings for fans and there is a lot of fluff to them.  I'm not crazy about them except that it can help recruiting if you can say we are getting a top 10 class, etc, etc.  At the end of the day, can these guys play.  Can they shoot, defend, score the ball, hustle, etc.   We'll find out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Reasonable comparison, Chicos.

I think folks here already have forgotten that KO's first three years were 15-14, 11-18, 16-13.

He would have been "fired" here on Scoop about three games into his second season.

Yuppers

[ChicosBailBonds]

You can't compare O'Neill's situation to Wojo's. With O'Neill we had a decade + of incompetence and we were becoming DePaul. Most believed MU could not compete anymore. I met O'Neill at a DePaul vs MU game at our lowest and he pumped me up. You could see the potential talent and had to be patient. Sorry but the fact is we are a lilttle over 2 yrs away from 3+ yrs of Sweet 16+, we have a better stadium, better infrastructure, world class training center and we pay coaches more(Top10). Earn It !!!!

Not comparing the situations they inherited, but I do see a parallel with the youth and mismatched toys.   Buzz had a bunch of mismatched toys his last year.  Wojo's first year, the same with transfers, etc.  This year, super young....guards guards guards...we need smart guards, good ball handlers that can shoot.   Hopefully someone steps up.

[White Shaq]

The only thing I could think of all game...

https://www.youtube.com//v/qi1LMIUOOAI

[ChicosBailBonds]

Iowa is going to do quite well in a very very very tough Big Ten this year.

[MU82]

Warriors lose both games in Brooklyn to fall to 1-4.

We then win 6 of 7, all against cupcakes and all at home, with the loss coming at Wisconsin. With some confidence, we then beat Seton Hall at home to open the Big East season. That makes us 8-5, with wins in 7 of 8 games.

In that time, maybe some of the roles have been established, the guys have figured out how to work together, Wojo improves as a coach, etc. We're still not world-beaters, but we have a chance to win some games, maybe finish with a winning record with this young team.

Is that an outrageous look at what's to come the rest of 2015 for the Warriors? How horrible would that outcome be?

[MarquetteDano]

Or maybe player rankings mean nothing especially when it's based AAU.  o'Neill played freshman against top teams like Duke and they never were humiliated like this.  At some point coaching and preparation needs to be scrutinized.  I will admit that Iowa was very good tonight.

I remember a game way worse than this one unfortunately.  Kansas in the pre-season albeit in Lawrence.  Wowza.  I believe we had 30 turnovers and lost by 35.

One thing about that '90 team is that Logtermann was playing point and like Cheatam, was really out of position.  It wasn't until Miller joined that things came together.

We need a legit point guard.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I remember a game way worse than this one unfortunately.  Kansas in the pre-season albeit in Lawrence.  Wowza.  I believe we had 30 turnovers and lost by 35.

One thing about that '90 team is that Logtermann was playing point and like Cheatam, was really out of position.  It wasn't until Miller came that things come together.

We need a legit point guard.

And our shoes blew up....LA Gear baby.

[MUCrew]

  Why wait?    I am going to post and turn off the computer.   
1.  Hope nobody gets hurt in the last 10 minutes.
2.  I am now 3-0 on my predictions for the year.   FYI, I predicted 17-15 for the season.
3.   Men versus boys.
4.  I am going to appreciate all of those cupcakes in December.    Hopefully, the frosh can use that time to figure it out.
5.   They came out and competed in the second half.   Embrace that.   
6.  Need a leader. 
7.   I believe with every fiber of my being that this team will get better.   
8.  One day, we will look back at this game and laugh.   Come off the ledge. 
9.  Respect the process.

You, sir, have your head on straight.  I believe this 100%

[Lennys Tap]

1. We are bad shooters.
2. We are bad passers.
3. We are bad dribblers.
4. We are out of control.
5. We play bad defense.

Yes, it will get better. It couldn't get no worse.

[mattyv1908]

This team's motto should be "Turning sure wins into nail biters, toss up games into losses, and legitimate opponents into blow out losses."

[murphmurphy]

A couple of replays on the overhead cam showed the MU offense in action or inaction might be a more appropriate description.  Four guys standing outside the 3 pt arc and one guy dribbling while trying to penetrate.  No off-the-ball screens, no cutting, a lot of standing around, when someone did move it looked like slow motion.  Can anyone decipher what offense Wojo has installed?   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

A couple of replays on the overhead cam showed the MU offense in action or inaction might be a more appropriate description.  Four guys standing outside the 3 pt arc and one guy dribbling while trying to penetrate.  No off-the-ball screens, no cutting, a lot of standing around, when someone did move it looked like slow motion.  Can anyone decipher what offense Wojo has installed?   

It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.

I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite. Henry would be a great guy to have there because he can shoot the midrange so defenses would clapse on him which would open up driving lanes for Duane and JJJ on the wings.

You could also have Sandy in the corner and have Luke come set a screen for him backdoor for a pass from henry. But beating a zone all comes down to the guy sitting at the free throw line. I don't think Wojo should be fired and deserves the benefit of the doubt, but we actually have the personnel to run a good offense against the zone even if we don't have shooters, and that lies squarely on Wojo.

[lohaus]

It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.

I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite.

Side middle side, side middle side, pass pass pass.  Excellent point as I always thought you beat a zone with quick crisp passing and get the defense moving, relocate for quick uncontested shots.  Basically what Iowa did to our zone when they shredded it.

Maybe our guys should quit being line huggers on 3 pointers.  Heck, back up a step.  Luke did get some inside buckets off of pin downs and high low passes .  That was encouraging.  As a big man though it has to suck running back only to watch your guards Jack an ill advised 3 pointer before you barely get down to offense.

I guess I'm alright with us losing to a Big 10 team.  I'm not alright with the lack of urgency to get back on defense and find your man.  Iowa just jumped us, pushed the ball up with quick passes, and the defense never really seemed to recover as guys were not sprinting back.

To think, I almost thought of driving two hours to watch this game!

[GGGG]

Turns out I was optimistic when I said we will lose by 12-15. We will lose twice in Brooklyn.

[real chili 83]

Last night was tough. 

We will get better.  We will be very good.

The biggest head scratcher for me was the time out when Wojo told the team to get the ball in the middle, and the team came out and chucked up a three.  What were they thinking?

This team needs to learn how to listen to their coach.  Perhaps it's all the hype they've heard about being a top ten class.  Who knows.

Perhaps when this season is over, last night's loss will have been a blessing.  Time will tell....and there is lots of time to figure this out. 

[tower912]

Do you remember in the Kill Bill movies when Uma Thurman is dropped off with the martial arts master and tries to impress him with her skills?    Kind of what this feels like.     I expected this team to struggle.   I never bought into the notion that a #10 ranked recruiting class was going to come in and magically mesh into a good team immediately.    It just doesn't work like that.   Sure, there are outliers.   The Fab 5, Kentucky recently.    Those are the exceptions, not the norm. 

Eventually:    The team will understand their defensive responsibilities.
                     Just because you have an open look from 3 does not mean you should shoot it.   
                     To grind out offensive possessions  and work for paint touches with your talented big guys. 

But not yet.     

[Stretchdeltsig]

Like everyone else I was really optimistic about this season.  After Wojo's excellent recruiting, I expected highly competitive play this year.  What a let down.  There is no defense.  Shooters who can't shoot.  And lousy coaching.  What is going on?

[willie warrior]

Lots of talent on this team, but the results are not there. So far--unacceptable.
So much for high HS rankings!
So much for a top 10 recruiting class!
So much for power point demos!
Now we shall see how these guys respond, and who steps forward.
Not playing as a team. 9 TO's out of our Frosh PG's. Soft inside. Recipe for disaster!

[MU82]

It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.

I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite. Henry would be a great guy to have there because he can shoot the midrange so defenses would clapse on him which would open up driving lanes for Duane and JJJ on the wings.

You could also have Sandy in the corner and have Luke come set a screen for him backdoor for a pass from henry. But beating a zone all comes down to the guy sitting at the free throw line. I don't think Wojo should be fired and deserves the benefit of the doubt, but we actually have the personnel to run a good offense against the zone even if we don't have shooters, and that lies squarely on Wojo.

I agree with most of this. I run this exact offense for the middle-school team I coach -- I'm not looking for applause, given that it's a pretty obvious offense against a 2-3 zone, which is mostly what we face. It works well as long as you move the ball crisply and your high-post player is a good passer who can knock down the 10-15 footer.

However, it definitely helps -- and in college these days, it's imperative -- to have people who can knock down 3s. Otherwise, active interior defenders won't give up that open 10-15-footer to the high post AND will deny driving lanes to the guards/wings.

Offensively, we need far better PG play and far better outside shooting. Lacking both, it's hard to expect too much out of Luke and Hankster against a good defensive team.

[CTWarrior]

Hard to argue with much above, but beyond anything else what gets me is how porous the defense is.  We get beat consistently on the dribble drive AND we don't contest the entry pass.  The opposition post gets the ball 10 feet from the basket with no one guarding him and then three guys rush toward him leaving two more closer to the basket wide open along with open 3 point shooters.  I know we're young, but we should be able to deny something.

As for offense, we got great looks at the three all night.  We just can't make 'em.  It is easy to play great interior defense when you can concede the open three with impunity.

I think we'll get better (how could we not?).  The defense will improve, but if we can't shoot it any better, it won't matter.

[warriorfan 14]

most undisciplined team i have watched at mu. they have no clue on offense or defense about what is going on. they can't shoot. coaching staff has been very poor in my opinion....not sure how you could justify saying they have done well to this point. lost a lot of faith in the team after this one. maybe we will get better and have at least a halfway decent season, but i sure ain't getting my hopes up.

[MU82]

most undisciplined team i have watched at mu. they have no clue on offense or defense about what is going on. they can't shoot. coaching staff has been very poor in my opinion....not sure how you could justify saying they have done well to this point. lost a lot of faith in the team after this one. maybe we will get better and have at least a halfway decent season, but i sure ain't getting my hopes up.

Beyond recruiting, I'm not sure I have seen many -- any? -- Scoopers who have said Wojo has "done well."

What many of us are saying is that he's a young coach of a young team, we're hoping they all will improve, and it's far too early to run around screaming, "Fire him!"

[ecompt]

What's most troubling is the defense, You have to want to play D, and this team doesn't -- it just wants to chuck up the ball. No one is a great one-and-one defender, and most are awful. The offense will get better, but if Wojo can't get them to play D it may not matter.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

This is a very very good Iowa team.  Preseason rankings, mean NOTHING.

And didn't Iowa have 4 starting seniors, to boot?  At NCAA time, I know it's been said on this board several times to watch out for teams with a lot of seniors.  It showed last night.