IUPUI thoughts

[rocket surgeon]

The number of turnovers alone could be cited as costing us the Belmont game and almost costing us the IUPUI game.    If our guards take care of the ball, lots of problems are solved.  That said, we also give up way too many easy baskets, shoot threes poorly, don't feed the Fish enough and give up way too many offensive rebounds.  Iowa will be a tough game to win unless we fix some or all of the issues.

People bitch about Du turning the ball over.....Combs had 10 TOs!  During the game, I kept thinking about how he's killing MU. If I was a IUPUI fan, I'd have been thinking how much he needs to get a better handle or sit.  Funny how one's perspective can change depending on the side from which you look.

missed no footers, turnovers, shooting the 3

  i forget the color guy on the belmont game, but he came right out and said MU has to STOP shooting the trey.  belmont got turgid every time they saw us outside the arc.  square peg meet round hole?  until they can burn someone a little bit, opposing teams are going to sag, pack the lane, and wait for the rebound.  we've got 2 big guys and some good mid-range jump shooters

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

About the zone. To me it seemed like they were playing more of a 3-2 zone at times. The guy in the middle was cheating so far up. I'm not saying it was a bad thing, just an observation. They were leaving the coner open way more than the top of the key.

[jesmu84]

Henry is a  terrible defensive player right now, that's the only reason he is not our best 5 walking in.   There are two sides to the player coin, nobody thinks about defense.

So how'd you feel about Derrick? 

[Strokin 3s]

Couple of thoughts from last night...

Duane was driving me crazy with how loose he was with the ball, but I also turned to my buddy and said he is also going to hit a big shot before this game is over.  He does not lack for confidence.

Anyone saying this team isn't going to get better is nuts.  Surprised nobody pointed out that both Henry and Duane seemed to have learned from last game already.  On the last MU possession Henry has the ball and looks like he might try to barrel through to the hoop, but instead kicks it to Duane (different from last game) and Duane rather than settle for the jumper (like last game) goes hard to the hoop and gets the foul.

So yes I think they are improving already.

Duane I think gets frustrated but not the same as lacking confidence. 

Henry's D leaves much to be desired at this point, even from the weak side he didn't seem to have much of an appetite to try to come in and swat some of those shots out.

[muwarrior69]

I think the very first words of this thread are the most important - there are 348 DI teams with more experience than us and only 2 with less experience.  Add to that (correct me if my memory is off) but Cheatham wasn't a point guard in high school so we also have a Frosh point that is learning a new position.

Indeed, the learning process will be fun to watch.

All those years we had good to great guards and no bigs. Now we have bigs but our guards are lacking.

[MomofMUltiples]

Henry is a  terrible defensive player right now, that's the only reason he is not our best 5 walking in.   There are two sides to the player coin, nobody thinks about defense.

Just out of curiosity, Stone, who do you think ARE our best 5 right now?

[Galway Eagle]

Just out of curiosity, Stone, who do you think ARE our best 5 right now?

+1

[Blackhat]

Well if we are going to play man to man defense my starting 5 would be:
Duane
Haanif
Anim
Cohen
Luke Fischer

I'd be interested in seeing HE's defensive metrics.
Now if we play zone then Henry is in our top 5 because we can hide his lack of understanding/anticipation/quickness in help defense in man to man.  Henry has been doing more oley bullsh.t than Rick Dorn on D. 

Needs to slide his feet way better.   He can obviously get better but he is nowhere near NBA level or major DI level defensively right now.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Haanif has a great skill set, and he is a tough finisher.  He plays in control which is why Wojo plays him more than Traci.  That said, once around the Big East and coaches will have hm scouted as he goes to his left almost every time.  He uses his right hand primarily on that crossover baseline move he uses.  He is Vander Blue as he can find the seams off the bounce.  He is not the PG of the future, IMO, especially once scouted.

[ATL MU Warrior]

So how'd you feel about Derrick? 

Please don't do this

[bilsu]

Please don't do this

We be 2-0 with Derrick

[jsglow]

Haanif has a great skill set, and he is a tough finisher.  He plays in control which is why Wojo plays him more than Traci.  That said, once around the Big East and coaches will have hm scouted as he goes to his left almost every time.  He uses his right hand primarily on that crossover baseline move he uses.  He is Vander Blue as he can find the seams off the bounce.  He is not the PG of the future, IMO, especially once scouted.

I really think you're right.  Traci has a ways to go but he's a true Point.  The question I might ask myself in a few weeks is whether Duane should play Point with Haanif and Sandy at the 2/3 when Traci's not in the game.  I haven't yet seen how we maximize Duane.  We need to get him comfortable and effective.  So far, he's not.

[MU82]

All those years we had good to great guards and no bigs. Now we have bigs but our guards are lacking.

Our guards are young. We don't know yet if they are "lacking."

Three months from now -- or certainly a year from now -- we might be saying these same guards are a major strength. We'll see.

[tower912]

We be 2-0 with Derrick

Yup.   Or Carlino. 

[Benny B]

Yup.   Or Carlino.

Or Ollie from Hoosiers.

[tower912]

Or Ollie from Hoosiers.

Always mist up when he makes those free throws. 

[Benny B]

Always mist up when he makes those free throws.

I'd kill a kitten to have someone who shoots 100% from the line on this team.

(I'm willing to chalk that first one up to Ollie being shoved into the game unexpectedly... i.e. no time to warm-up, get loose, etc.)

[Herman Cain]

Haanif has a great skill set, and he is a tough finisher.  He plays in control which is why Wojo plays him more than Traci.  That said, once around the Big East and coaches will have hm scouted as he goes to his left almost every time.  He uses his right hand primarily on that crossover baseline move he uses.  He is Vander Blue as he can find the seams off the bounce.  He is not the PG of the future, IMO, especially once scouted.

I really like Haanif for the reasons you outline. While I agree he may hit a bump in the road after being scouted, I am confident  he will make the  adjustments. I also think his vision is excellent and overall his ceiling is very high.  I think he will do a great job running our offense.

[tower912]

A few short years ago, Buzz was mocked for not playing freshmen.   They aren't ready, he said.  Balderdash said many scoopers.   They will play when they understand their defensive responsibilities and what is and isn't a good shot, he said.   Buzz is holding them back, screamed the peanut gallery.     
This year, out of necessity, the freshmen are playing.   Top 10 class, best in a generation.   Why aren't they instantly advanced, freshmen should be finished products, opines scoop.    How come they don't play defense well or understand their offensive roles?,  scoopers ask.

Kentucky of the last few years has skewed perceptions and expectations for what freshmen are and can reasonably accomplish.    Newsflash, Kentucky is the outlier.    What MU is going through right now is much closer to the historic norm. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

A few short years ago, Buzz was mocked for not playing freshmen.   They aren't ready, he said.  Balderdash said many scoopers.   They will play when they understand their defensive responsibilities and what is and isn't a good shot, he said.   Buzz is holding them back, screamed the peanut gallery.     
This year, out of necessity, the freshmen are playing.   Top 10 class, best in a generation.   Why aren't they instantly advanced, freshmen should be finished products, opines scoop.    How come they don't play defense well or understand their offensive roles?,  scoopers ask.

Kentucky of the last few years has skewed perceptions and expectations for what freshmen are and can reasonably accomplish.    Newsflash, Kentucky is the outlier.    What MU is going through right now is much closer to the historic norm.

See though, I'm in the camp that if you have a bad, or even a mediocre team throw the freshman in there. Trial by fire and let them develop. Last year was a bad team and 2 years ago was extremely mediocre. I don't think Carlino was bad but he was a rent a player on a bad team.

[Galway Eagle]

A few short years ago, Buzz was mocked for not playing freshmen.   They aren't ready, he said.  Balderdash said many scoopers.   They will play when they understand their defensive responsibilities and what is and isn't a good shot, he said.   Buzz is holding them back, screamed the peanut gallery.     
This year, out of necessity, the freshmen are playing.   Top 10 class, best in a generation.   Why aren't they instantly advanced, freshmen should be finished products, opines scoop.    How come they don't play defense well or understand their offensive roles?,  scoopers ask.

Kentucky of the last few years has skewed perceptions and expectations for what freshmen are and can reasonably accomplish.    Newsflash, Kentucky is the outlier.    What MU is going through right now is much closer to the historic norm.

In all fairness the 2013 class on paper was better top to bottom than the 2015 class. Outside of Henry this current class is not the best in a generation. Haanif is great but his and everyone else's talent level is where Crean and buzz were recruiting.

[MerrittsMustache]

In all fairness the 2013 class on paper was better top to bottom than the 2015 class. Outside of Henry this current class is not the best in a generation. Haanif is great but his and everyone else's talent level is where Crean and buzz were recruiting.

That's a good point. A Top 10 recruiting class does not mean that there are 5 highly-touted freshmen (like at UK, Duke, etc). It typically means that there's one top 10 guy (HE) and another top 50 guy (HC) and their "grades" skew the entire class. Anim and Heldt aren't going to see much time come conference play and it's questionable whether Carter will play more than a few spot minutes. They're all part of the "top 10 recruiting class" but they're not all highly-touted recruits. Eventually, those players will be contributors but they're simply not ready yet, regardless of where the entire class ranks.

[bilsu]

Key, MacIlvanie & Lotgerman were 11-18 their freshmen year. They made the NCAA tournament their junior &senior years.

[WarriorInNYC]

In all fairness the 2013 class on paper was better top to bottom than the 2015 class. Outside of Henry this current class is not the best in a generation. Haanif is great but his and everyone else's talent level is where Crean and buzz were recruiting.

Yeah, really not sure about that.

Henry, Haanif, Traci, Heldt, Sacar vs
vs
Deonte, Duane, JjJ, Dawson, Jameel

The top is definitely better in 2015, and the very bottom is actually also better in 2015 (Heldt or Sacar vs Dawson).  Maybe I can hear an argument that the class in total on paper was better, but I still think the extremely high value of HE brings up 2015 too high.

But definitely, "top to bottom" doesn't apply here.

[Galway Eagle]

Yeah, really not sure about that.

Henry, Haanif, Traci, Heldt, Sacar vs
vs
Deonte, Duane, JjJ, Dawson, Jameel

The top is definitely better in 2015, and the very bottom is actually also better in 2015 (Heldt or Sacar vs Dawson).  Maybe I can hear an argument that the class in total on paper was better, but I still think the extremely high value of HE brings up 2015 too high.

But definitely, "top to bottom" doesn't apply here.

I should have been clearer since I consider our 2013 class who we have now which is Duane, JJJ, Fisher. That class is rated at .971566 on paper. But since we're doing the original classes:

via 247 this year we had an average rating of .9351 vs .93406 in 2013.  So not better but certainly on par so that expectations should be the same, unless of course that .00104 rating is the real difference maker to certain people. 

via ESPN our current class's average grade is 83.8 while our 2013 class (original without McKay since they don't rate jucos) is rated 84.7... I wouldn't trust ESPN though since on paper they have our 2009 class (also top 10 but not including DJO or Buycks) rated 90.5 and Maymonn and Cadougan ended up ok while Mbao and Williams were... something.