IUPUI thoughts

[willie warrior]

Amazing, simply amazing. There are more than a couple guys that have posted here that are basically saying Duane should be benched!

The guy is the leading returning scorer, and is the only Guard we can rely on to score regularly.
He is capable of putting up 20 plus, and has done 30 plus. His shot has not looked real well this year, but that will come. Yet we hear he is clueless out there, he is totally frustrating and inconsistent, etc. That could be said about several guys. Fischer has done well but has plenty of defensive lapses, same for Henry. Sandy also disappears periodically, as does JJJ. We have two Frosh playing PG, but Wilson helps in that area, also. We are two games in and some guys are basically calling for Wilson's head.

Of more worry should be how the team has performed. Yeah, we beat EEwie Pewie--but barely in OT. With our talent, this game should have been a no brainer.

Hopefully Wojo can improve things. Now Iowa should be a real test.

[ecompt]

Nowhere near. You should be an NBA scout....

[MUfan12]

Seems like Ellenson was handed the job.   I'm not sure he makes our best 5 right now.  His D is lacking.   Hopefully Wojo's evaluation of Ellenson was correct as the season goes on.    He put a lot of eggs in that basket.

Buried your best point. Henry has been really bad defensively. And it's not positioning or awareness, it's effort. He was going at half speed a lot the past two games.

[NavinRJohnson]

Buried your best point. Henry has been really bad defensively. And it's not positioning or awareness, it's effort. He was going at half speed a lot the past two games.

Good grief.

[Herman Cain]

Pretty crazy how people who get paid to make that determination disagree with you.

The People who get paid to make the determination have a losing record.

[MUfan12]

Good grief.

Look, I'm glad he's here. But he has been really poor on D, and he's not alone in that regard.

Watch how quickly he moves when he runs the break after a defensive rebound, and watch how quickly he rotates/helps/closes out defensively.

[WarriorInNYC]

I think it's more a function technique than effort/want to, but the point is correct...rebounding needs a lot of work.

Agreed.  I think switching to zone definitely did not help at all either.  Hopefully, the more we play zone, the more the team figures out how to rebound from it.

[WarriorInNYC]

Going forward, I like the talent of the freshmen but please recruit a point guard.  Cheatham and Carter at the point are not the answers.  How do we go from having great point guards year after year to now not having one for quite awhile.

Right now.  You could make a case that Cheatham and Carter are not the answers at the point right now.  Remember that they are true freshmen and this is the second game.

[moomoo]

The People who get paid to make the determination have a losing record.

I respectfully suggest you look at the stats of many recent one and dones who eventually became lottery picks.

The stats in their first two games were similar, and sometimes worse than, those of Henry.

First two games playing at a high level = he looked very good. And he will look better as the season progresses.

[warriorfan 14]

honestly haven't been that impressed with henry so far. think he will end up great but he has got to be WAY better on defense. scoring a lot but is a high volume shooter.

impressed with cheatham

i think carter and anim will be up and down.

at some point the experienced players have to start leading. remember what james, mcneal, and matthews did when they were sophomores and juniors.

hopefully andrew rowsey coming next year can help the pg spot and 3 point shooting. so far it appears cohen is the only one that can shoot the 3, however we have a lot of guys that THINK they can shoot the 3 (ellenson, duane, jjj)

also gave up way too many offensive boards against a team with inferior size

[GGGG]

I think the one and done concept was way over done. If anyone had bothered to watch the kid play in high school they would have understood that. He has some very nice skills, but his overall basketball IQ is lacking. He is a me first,stat oriented player who does not bring up the level of play of those around him.  He is a  6-10 Carlino. He has always been that way which is part of the reason he never won anything in high school.  That said I am still very happy he is on our team and am confident he will eventually become a polished and intelligent player as his basic skills are clearly strong.

He never won anything in high school because he's from Rice-f**king-Lake.

Anyone who has watched top freshman coming out of high school in recent years, outside of the elite of the elite, has seen players like Henry.  They rush things.  They don't quite understand the game at this level.  However they usually have a lot more talent around them than this Marquette team has.  They can fill a role, defer to others on off nights, but be the man when they need to be.

And THAT is what should concern Marquette fans or any fans of teams like ours.  This may be providing an example of why one-and-done types should gravitate toward elite teams where they are surrounded by potential NBA talent.  Henry is the only player that I can confidently say is going to do more than a cup of coffee in the league that is on this team right now.

The idea that he was handed his starting job is laughable.  After two games, who on this team is playing better than Henry Ellenson?  Maybe Sandy.  Maybe Luke.  That's about it.

[wadesworld]

I think the one and done concept was way over done. If anyone had bothered to watch the kid play in high school they would have understood that. He has some very nice skills, but his overall basketball IQ is lacking. He is a me first,stat oriented player who does not bring up the level of play of those around him.  He is a  6-10 Carlino. He has always been that way which is part of the reason he never won anything in high school.  That said I am still very happy he is on our team and am confident he will eventually become a polished and intelligent player as his basic skills are clearly strong.

I also think part of the problem is that Wojo has given him a complete green light, which no one else has. I think having him bring the ball up is screwing up the guards rythym. Yes he can do it, but that doesn't mean it should.

Lol.

Always good to start the work day with a good laugh.  Appreciate it.

[GGGG]

I respectfully suggest you look at the stats of many recent one and dones who eventually became lottery picks.

The stats in their first two games were similar, and sometimes worse than, those of Henry.

First two games playing at a high level = he looked very good. And he will look better as the season progresses.

Exactly.  Spot on.

Scoopers are doing the same thing Scoopers always do.  Judge players against their expectations of them versus the reality.

[MerrittsMustache]

- Team D needs a lot of work. Too much scrambling and confusion.

- MU needs a go-to guy down the stretch. Duane is willing and occasionally able. By the end of the season, it should be Henry. Cohen and Haanif appear to have the "it" necessary to fill that role as well. Only Duane has really been in that situation at this level but it'd be great if a another player or two could emerge in crunch time.

- Duane can shoot but his mechanics are out of whack right now. As someone else mentioned, he's jumping too high on his outside shots. He shot 36.7% from 3 in BE play last season. That's not a fluke. He'll find his form.

- Loved seeing more aggressiveness from Cohen. His jumper is still very slow so showing ability to drive should open things up for him some on the perimeter.

- Henry's D needs a lot of work. Quite frankly, he's probably never really had to play D before. In HS, he was bigger and stronger than everyone. In AAU, there is no D. It's teachable so hopefully Wojo and the coaches can get him on track.

- In warm-ups, Fischer took several jumpers from the elbow, which I found interesting. I assume that's something he's been working on. If he could hit from 12-15 feet out with some rate of consistency, that would really open things up for Henry down low.

- Young, talented team. There's a lot of room for improvement but there's also a lot of promise. This team is going to look significantly better by Christmas.

[GGGG]

I have one observation about that game last night.

It sucked.  Really a part of me wanted that IUPUI shot at the end of regulation to fall because I didn't want to watch anymore.  After two years of this crap, I was hoping for more.  Yeah I know they are going to improve this year.  (They had better...)  We have a junior guard, and a sophomore guard who have been in the program for three years who still can't shoot.  After two off-seasons of "skill development," they cannot put the ball in the basket.  Furthermore, JJJ does only one thing well.  He can drive to the basket with his right hand.  Defense is better but it is still not great.  No vision with the ball.  Duane is better in both areas, but still.

I'm not sure I can do this much longer.  Iowa is going to truck this team by 15.

[MUfan12]

I'm convinced Duane's struggles are more mental than anything. He's being asked to run a team for some longer stretches, which he's never done before at the college level. It's pretty clear he's rushing, and trying to do to much when he needs to slow down a bit.

[Benny B]

This is hilarious. Henry is averaging 19.5 ppg/9.5 rpg and people think he isn't NBA ready? Tell that to Trey Lyles, Noah Vonleh, Steven Adams, and Alex Len, all of whom put up far worse numbers and were lottery picks. The NBA drafts on potential and Henry has a ton of it. He was off last night and went for 18/3/3. That's a pretty darn good off night.

I don't necessarily agree with those saying Henry isn't a one-and-done after two games, but the counterpoint to your argument is located in under "Gardner, Davante [Out of Conference Performance]"

[GGGG]

I don't necessarily agree with those saying Henry isn't a one-and-done after two games, but the counterpoint to your argument is located in under "Gardner, Davante [Out of Conference Performance]"

Anyone with eyeballs can see the difference between Henry Ellenson and Davante Gardner and why scouts like the former and basically ignored the latter. 

[mug644]

I have one observation about that game last night.

It sucked.  Really a part of me wanted that IUPUI shot at the end of regulation to fall because I didn't want to watch anymore.  After two years of this crap, I was hoping for more.  Yeah I know they are going to improve this year.  (They had better...)  We have a junior guard, and a sophomore guard who have been in the program for three years who still can't shoot.  After two off-seasons of "skill development," they cannot put the ball in the basket.  Furthermore, JJJ does only one thing well.  He can drive to the basket with his right hand.  Defense is better but it is still not great.  No vision with the ball.  Duane is better in both areas, but still.

I'm not sure I can do this much longer.  Iowa is going to truck this team by 15.

Or, that's when some pieces start to come together and some of our hopes begin to come true. And, because that's a possibility, fans like us will cope with the frustrations, even when it feels like we can't take it anymore. Hang in there, Sultan, sunshine and balloons will one day arrive!! Right? Please?

[jsglow]

I have one observation about that game last night.

It sucked.  Really a part of me wanted that IUPUI shot at the end of regulation to fall because I didn't want to watch anymore.  After two years of this crap, I was hoping for more.  Yeah I know they are going to improve this year.  (They had better...)  We have a junior guard, and a sophomore guard who have been in the program for three years who still can't shoot.  After two off-seasons of "skill development," they cannot put the ball in the basket.  Furthermore, JJJ does only one thing well.  He can drive to the basket with his right hand.  Defense is better but it is still not great.  No vision with the ball.  Duane is better in both areas, but still.

I'm not sure I can do this much longer.  Iowa is going to truck this team by 15.

That's exactly how I felt at 10 pm with a 2 hour drive staring me in the face.  And I'm personally putting much of the on floor responsibility on the 4 returning players.  With the exception of Sandy, each needs to elevate their game pretty dramatically.

The single thing I did like was the 2-3 zone with Sandy and Cheatham up high.  That length caused problems.  Perhaps our young team is thinking a bit too much in the man, not performing, and allowing that to spill over into everything else.

[Benny B]

Anyone with eyeballs can see the difference between Henry Ellenson and Davante Gardner and why scouts like the former and basically ignored the latter. 

Either my sarcasm detector is off or you didn't quite grasp my point that stats during OOC play can be deceiving whether you're Davante Gardner, Dominic James, Henry Ellenson or Jim McIlvaine.

[GGGG]

Or, that's when some pieces start to come together and some of our hopes begin to come true. And, because that's a possibility, fans like us will cope with the frustrations, even when it feels like we can't take it anymore. Hang in there, Sultan, sunshine and balloons will one day arrive!! Right? Please?

By Thursday morning I will probably think we'll win by 15. 

[GGGG]

Either my sarcasm detector is off or you didn't quite grasp my point that stats during OOC play can be deceiving whether you're Davante Gardner, Dominic James, Henry Ellenson or Jim McIlvaine.

Well OK.  Right now I'm just bitter.

[WarriorInNYC]

He never won anything in high school because he's from Rice-f**king-Lake.

That and he effin' broke his hand before their state championship game. 

[79Warrior]

I have one observation about that game last night.

It sucked.  Really a part of me wanted that IUPUI shot at the end of regulation to fall because I didn't want to watch anymore.  After two years of this crap, I was hoping for more.  Yeah I know they are going to improve this year.  (They had better...)  We have a junior guard, and a sophomore guard who have been in the program for three years who still can't shoot.  After two off-seasons of "skill development," they cannot put the ball in the basket.  Furthermore, JJJ does only one thing well.  He can drive to the basket with his right hand.  Defense is better but it is still not great.  No vision with the ball.  Duane is better in both areas, but still.

I'm not sure I can do this much longer.  Iowa is going to truck this team by 15.

I don't disagree with your comments. I would suggest that expectations for many people are and have been way out of line for this team. We have 5 Freshmen, and they are not the Fab 5. Many of them are going to be very good players at MU, just not likely to be this season. JJJ is a bust, I have said that all along. But, Wojo has to play him because he has experience and can occasionally get it done..

A .500 finish in conference would be a good step forward from last year. I am just going to enjoy watching the Freshmen learn to play and know that the building blocks are getting in place.  Expecting more from such a young team, and coach, will lead to disappointment.