Will the stock market crash (June 24 2016 Update)?

[Benny B]

I think it bears repeating (no pun intended) that the Brexit vote was a NON-BINDING REFERENDUM... much to the parallel of how American Presidential primaries are NON-BINDING REFERENDUMS.

Populist angst only goes so far before the big boys and girls have to put their earmuffs on and get the job done.  The only difference is that the Brits have the bangers and bristols to put their political careers on the line in order to do the right thing... on this side of the pond, Congress is bent as a nine-bob and hasn't the trousers to go with their mouth because they're not going to muck about with reality when they need to be willy-waving for their next bung and queering the pitch from the other side of the aisle.  So it's sod off to the people because they're no more than scallys and scrubbers who think Congress is a bunch of jacked up tossers who doesn't know it's onions and has made a pig's ear of the country.

In before the bang.

[Tugg Speedman]

Only 51.9% voted to leave hardly overwhelming.  There were several news articles on this on Friday that Britons were Googling "what it means to leave the EU" because most of then who voted leave had no idea what they were voting for.

That is what happens at every event.  Election night their will be a google spike on "who is <the winner>"  Nothing new here.  It just more media bias against BRexit.

[Eldon]

Only 51.9% voted to leave hardly overwhelming.  There were several news articles on this on Friday that Britons were Googling "what it means to leave the EU" because most of then who voted leave had no idea what they were voting for.

As a group, people generally aren't as stupid as you make them out to be.  Furthermore, you say "because" but can you be so sure Britons' mass ignorance was the cause for the uptick in google searches for "what it means to leave the EU?" 

Anyway, when you break down the numbers by nation within the UK, Scots overwhelmingly voted to stay, while the English voted to leave by a six-point margin (and that's including London). 

[Tugg Speedman]

I think it bears repeating (no pun intended) that the Brexit vote was a NON-BINDING REFERENDUM... much to the parallel of how American Presidential primaries are NON-BINDING REFERENDUMS.

Populist angst only goes so far before the big boys and girls have to put their earmuffs on and get the job done.  The only difference is that the Brits have the bangers and bristols to put their political careers on the line in order to do the right thing... on this side of the pond, Congress is bent as a nine-bob and hasn't the trousers to go with their mouth because they're not going to muck about with reality when they need to be willy-waving for their next bung and queering the pitch from the other side of the aisle.  So it's sod off to the people because they're no more than scallys and scrubbers who think Congress is a bunch of jacked up tossers who doesn't know it's onions and has made a pig's ear of the country.

In before the bang.

The PM resigned, half the shadow cabinet has resigned.  This is the first time in the hundreds of years of parliamentary rule in the UK both major political parties been in such turmoil at the same time.  Markets around the world are crashing. If only everyone realized that none of this counts it would all go away.

It's over and BRexit won.  BRexit is happening and the only thing that is more dangerous than BRexit itself is this kind of talk that the vote does not count, The "let's ignore the will of the people" talk is what will lead to revolution, not BRexit.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The PM resigned, half the shadow cabinet has resigned.  This is the first time in the hundreds of years of parliamentary rule in the UK both major political parties been in such turmoil at the same time.  Markets around the world are crashing. If only everyone realized that none of this counts it would all go away.

It's over and BRexit won.  BRexit is happening and the only thing that is more dangerous than BRexit itself is this kind of talk that the vote does not count, The "let's ignore the will of the people" talk is what will lead to revolution, not BRexit.

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

As a group, people generally aren't as stupid as you make them out to be.  Furthermore, you say "because" but can you be so sure Britons' mass ignorance was the cause for the uptick in google searches for "what it means to leave the EU?" 

Anyway, when you break down the numbers by nation within the UK, Scots overwhelmingly voted to stay, while the English voted to leave by a six-point margin (and that's including London). 

Eh, I feel like England is like Illinois. Rauner won despite getting destroyed in Chicago because the rest of Illinois is so different. That being said, it's silly to think that Chicago doesn't have as much pull as the rest of the state, just like London probably has more pull than the rest of England. It's a city of 7 million, that can't be ignored.

[Tugg Speedman]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

72% of the Uk went to the polls, the largest amount in 24 years.  BRexit won.  But because a bunch of inaccurate polls (that said remain would win) said old people voted for it, these results should be ignored?

So, in November when Hillary wins, the Republicans are within their right to say it was a bunch of old people that will be dead soon and the polls also say she is unpopular so we will not leave and refuse to accept these results.  You ok with this too. (I picked Hillary as my example as that is far more controversial than using Trump).

I'm not trying to make this a political argument, I'm trying to illustrate how unbelievably dangerous it is for a democracy to not accept the vote of the people. This is what they voted for, they have to live with it.  non-binding is irrelevant,.  They expressed their opinion and now the government has to give it to them (leave the EU).

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. - H. L. Mencken

[Lennys Tap]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

Most bigoted post ever on Scoop. Congrats.

[Badgerhater]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

If a person can't trouble themselves to get off their dead butt and pull a lever once in awhile is their opinion really relevant to that election?  Isn't half of success in life simply showing up?

How about we only count the votes of only those who have jobs or own property or only have a certain level of education .......

Even when my side has lost, I've never found compelling (and often find it dangerous) the argument of that but for a different electorate than the one that voted the losing side would have won.

[Eldon]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Eh, not worth it

[warriorOregon]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

Bravo for stupidity.


How about a 3/5th vote compromise.  Those older than 45 your vote means less.  /s

After all, the wisdom of 18 to 24 year olds like yourself is so on target.

Hey, while we are at it those that don't pay taxes their votes shouldn't count either.

[naginiF]

no problems-this is a new endeavor for us.  i built a 12,000 sq. ft bldg. in 2003)  we use half for my dental ofc. and my brothers accounting business.  so that left about 6,000sq. ft vacant.  our intentions were to turn it into more office space.  well, over the years, we had quite a few hits, all misses and then the economy chit out in 2008-09...my builder suggested self storage a few years ago and i laughed.  well here we are.  i was driving around one day and saw this beautiful indoor, climate controled self storage facility-BANGO!  if you go to a self storage blog, it's a whole different world.  my facility is relatively small(35 units) by industry standards, but i just want to get some cash flow going.  btw, i am about a month away from opening.  anyway, there are waiting lists for these, especially the indoor climate controled ones.  i have another acre plus just outside and that may become phase II and have 60 or so more units. i have a 500 unit apartment complex across the street from me.  self-storage has become a must-have for apartment dwellers, college students in transition, movers in transition, art, guns, motorcycles, snowmobiles, we have our township needing climate controll to store/archive hard copy stuff goingback years.  if you need storage, you don't need advertizing other than a web site and word of mouth.  the facility will be practically self run except for those who want a tour.  everything else can be done online.  i can monitor the facitlity from my phone of i-pad.  everyone, and mean EVERYONE i talk to say they cannot build these fast enough.  if you visit inside self storage, you will be amazed of how omnipresent this is

Interesting, thanks.

i figured i should get my thanks in before the lock and apparently, according to ChitownSpace, i need to go train for Logan's Run
(i do think the generation gap determined the outcome but that doesn't mean you ignore it, it means you need to energize the younger folks)

[warriorOregon]

Eh, not worth it

Your original quote, that the boomers were screwing you.  Maybe the boomers and the middle class think they are being screwed by non taxpayers.  Sure you want to dig your heels into this one?

[GooooMarquette]

The PM resigned, half the shadow cabinet has resigned.  This is the first time in the hundreds of years of parliamentary rule in the UK both major political parties been in such turmoil at the same time.  Markets around the world are crashing. If only everyone realized that none of this counts it would all go away.

It's over and BRexit won.  BRexit is happening and the only thing that is more dangerous than BRexit itself is this kind of talk that the vote does not count, The "let's ignore the will of the people" talk is what will lead to revolution, not BRexit.

A couple million people have already signed an online petition requesting a revote.  That number is the largest in UK history, and is growing by the hour as people realize that neither the ruling nor opposition parties have a clue what to do next.  (This cluelessness was even admitted by a member of Parliament who voted in favor of the Brexit.)  Anyhow, Parliament is required to debate any online petition that gets at least 100,000 signatures, so the will of the people who have signed this petition will be considered by Parliament.  And by the time Parliament gets to the debate, the petition might just very well have more signatures than there were votes in favor of Brexit.

Like you said - the will of the people.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Bravo for stupidity.


How about a 3/5th vote compromise.  Those older than 45 your vote means less.  /s

After all, the wisdom of 18 to 24 year olds like yourself is so on target.

Hey, while we are at it those that don't pay taxes their votes shouldn't count either.

I mean, based on the British economy absolutely tanking, those 18-24 year olds may not be as bad as decision makers as you think. I'm not ignorant to think there will never be another recession when my generation is in power, because there will be, however this one was very preventable.

[GooooMarquette]

It's not the will of the people though. It's the will of those who will be dead in the next 10-20 years, which frankly, shouldn't count.

You do realize that Brexit would very likely have failed if younger people had gotten out and voted, right?  Per the Financial Times, approximately 65% of 30-year old eligible people voted, while approximately 80% of eligible 50-year old eligible people voted. 

http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/06/24/brexit-demographic-divide-eu-referendum-results/

Given that more young people voted "Remain," the results would likely have been different if more 18-35 year olds just voted.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You do realize that Brexit would very likely have failed if younger people had gotten out and voted, right?  Per the Financial Times, approximately 65% of 30-year old eligible people voted, while approximately 80% of eligible 50-year old eligible people voted. 

http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/06/24/brexit-demographic-divide-eu-referendum-results/

Given that more young people voted "Remain," the results would likely have been different if more 18-35 year olds just voted.

Absolutely, and that's why I hate people my age too, talk a big game and don't always deliver (ahem,  bernie supporters) Basically I just hate people I guess is what I'm trying to get at here.

[Tugg Speedman]

A couple million people have already signed an online petition requesting a revote.  That number is the largest in UK history, and is growing by the hour as people realize that neither the ruling nor opposition parties have a clue what to do next.  (This cluelessness was even admitted by a member of Parliament who voted in favor of the Brexit.)  Anyhow, Parliament is required to debate any online petition that gets at least 100,000 signatures, so the will of the people who have signed this petition will be considered by Parliament.  And by the time Parliament gets to the debate, the petition might just very well have more signatures than there were votes in favor of Brexit.

Like you said - the will of the people.

Cameron spoke today and said they will debate it, and then not do it.

17.4 million voted to leave.  16.8 million vote to remain.  If 3 million remain voters sign a petition for a do-over, then what?  Another referendum?  And it Remain wins.  Then millions of leave voters will sign petitions to demand yet another referendum.

When does it end?  Answer, last week, it's over and they are out.

----------------

Regarding the idea that the vote was non-binding.  All votes are non-binding.

This November we will not be voting for President.  We will be participating in a non-binding popularity contest.  The actual vote for President is in December by the electoral college.   And they are not bound by the general election results.  They can vote anyway they want.  And some states apportion electoral college votes by congressional district, others by states.  History has examples of electoral college votes going against the popular election results of that state or district (it's rare and has not changed an outcome). 

So, our election this November, like the BRexit referendum, is non-binding.  They are all non-binding, everywhere.  And the second they are treated as non-binding, that country ceases to be a democracy.

[MU82]

Heisy:

If it is the will of the people to have a new referendum, why is that any less democratic than last week's vote?

And I'm not talking about a few million Brits. I'll be impressed when tens of million voters demand a new referendum. If that happens, they absolutely should have a do-over. If not, I agree with you that last week's decision should stand.

I'm guessing President Gore, Supreme Court Justice Merrick Garland and U.S. gun-control advocates would agree wholeheartedly with you that the will of the people should decide elections and other major issues.

[mu03eng]

Really enjoy the panic portion of the Superbar crowd making this thread laughable with their doom and gloom and continued expanding on ignorance as a basis for opinion making.

There are far too many unknowns to draw any conclusion from Brexit. A) we don't know if the UK actually ends up withdrawing B) if they do withdraw we have no idea what the new engagement/agreements look like so we can't determine if it's a better or worse deal for both/either parties C) we don't know what the world economy looks like 2 years from now if/when it takes effect.

Any initial reaction is 100% about uncertainty, fear, and unwinding of positions held assuming the UK voted to stay.

Let's discuss 6 months from now.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

You know what would be fascinating, if the English soccer team came out with a European flag. I'm sure the odds of that happening are like .01 percent but man would that spark a discussion.

[GooooMarquette]

Cameron spoke today....

As of Friday, Cameron's opinion doesn't mean much....

[Eldon]

A couple million people have already signed an online petition requesting a revote.  That number is the largest in UK history, and is growing by the hour as people realize that neither the ruling nor opposition parties have a clue what to do next.  (This cluelessness was even admitted by a member of Parliament who voted in favor of the Brexit.)  Anyhow, Parliament is required to debate any online petition that gets at least 100,000 signatures, so the will of the people who have signed this petition will be considered by Parliament.  And by the time Parliament gets to the debate, the petition might just very well have more signatures than there were votes in favor of Brexit.

Like you said - the will of the people.

Whoops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

Its inquiry is focused on the possibility that some names could be fraudulent - 77,000 signatures have already been removed.
More than 3.2 million signatures are on the petition, but PM David Cameron has said there will be no second vote.

From other sources, there were North Koreans who somehow managed to sign that petition, 39k people from the Vatican (pop of ~800), and Napoleon Bonaparte also managed to sign the petition.

Yeah.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Whoops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

Its inquiry is focused on the possibility that some names could be fraudulent - 77,000 signatures have already been removed.
More than 3.2 million signatures are on the petition, but PM David Cameron has said there will be no second vote.

From other sources, there were North Koreans who somehow managed to sign that petition, 39k people from the Vatican (pop of ~800), and Napoleon Bonaparte also managed to sign the petition.

Yeah.

I didn't expect a revote so much as I expected parliament just to say thanks but no thanks. If they don't leave the EU it's not going to be due to another referendum vote.