Marquette releases early designs for sports research center

[CKCS]

Blunder...millions spent on the land, millions more spent on planning and consultants, lost the Bucks, lost Aurora, went from an functional athletic facility for many teams to an expensive locker room and weight room for golf and lacrosse. Blunder. Claimed as recently as March of this year that Aurora was still in...now out. Blunder.

[NorthernDancerColt]

The $40 million was part of the deal when they were still talking about the original plan, a 300,000 square foot facility.  Now it's a 46,000 square foot facility.

It could be that they don't need the money to finance this smaller structure, and it looks like they changed the plans in anticipation of losing the deal. Maybe they were still trying to save at least part of it before they made this announcement.

Gotta believe it's some variation of this. Not at all a sky(dome) is falling situation, complete with burning bridges. Aurora doesn't want to have its name on any "little brother" center. Wouldn't surprise me if MU athletes (at least mens and womens basketball) have access at some point to the Bucks' facility.  We're certainly already performance-research driven as a program, and we will continue to be so, wherever we house the trappings.

As long as we don't have to return recruits who committed as a result of this bricks and mortar "state-of-art performance research" pitch, I'm cool with it.

[Dish]

I don't know enough if this is a blunder or not, but will say from where this project was dreamt of a couple years ago, to this announcement today, the optics are bad here for Lovell and MU. I'm not privy to the politics that went on, but in this game of musical chairs between the Bucks/MU/sponsors, MU appears to be the one without a chair.

[NorthernDancerColt]

I don't know enough if this is a blunder or not, but will say from where this project was dreamt of a couple years ago, to this announcement today, the optics are bad here for Lovell and MU. I'm not privy to the politics that went on, but in this game of musical chairs between the Bucks/MU/sponsors, MU appears to be the one without a chair.

Yes, definitely some sobering aspects to this. Wish someone would "leak" some real info as to what went down. MU can't afford to alienate a couple boosters, let alone large sponsors. Were the terse arena lease negotiations solely a product of this aprc bungling? Are they a harbinger of things to come as far as our relationship with the Bucks?

[jsglow]

Blunder...millions spent on the land, millions more spent on planning and consultants, lost the Bucks, lost Aurora, went from an functional athletic facility for many teams to an expensive locker room and weight room for golf and lacrosse. Blunder. Claimed as recently as March of this year that Aurora was still in...now out. Blunder.

It's really easy to throw stones at Marquette without any facts.  Millions spent on land?  Please, in a downtown environment you get it when you can, especially assuming the price is right.  'Lost' the Bucks?  Are you sure it went down that way given how difficult Bucks ownership has been in a variety of negotiations including their own arena naming rights?  Could it be that the Bucks asked for an arm and a leg?  And was a functional athletic facility (as you deem it) vs. a scaled down center PLUS the Valley Bubble really the right answer?  I certainly don't have enough facts to evaluate that. 

Consider this.  Maybe MU and Aurora decided to 'shift' that $40MM to another project yet to be announced.  Not saying it happened but there's no direct evidence that the relationship between the two organizations has soured.  I'd ask everyone to keep an open mind.

[warriorchick]

I am also wondering if Aurora's recent merger with Advocate Healthcare has anything to do with it. Their new partner may not have been too keen on this deal, especially given that Advocate whose footprint did not extend beyond Illinois borders, has no affinity to Marquette.

[CKCS]

How about this for a possible scenario...Marquette couldn't figure out how to pay their share of the larger project; so, Bucks got tired of waiting because they wanted something open at the same time as the arena so they built their own, Aurora got disappointed with the final version of AHPRC because it was so small and they pulled out; so MU is left paying $24 million to pay for locker rooms for three non-rev teams...that's exponentially more than they spent on the Al and the refresh of the men's bball locker room...just a theory...

[moomoo]

How about this for a possible scenario...Marquette couldn't figure out how to pay their share of the larger project; so, Bucks got tired of waiting because they wanted something open at the same time as the arena so they built their own, Aurora got disappointed with the final version of AHPRC because it was so small and they pulled out; so MU is left paying $24 million to pay for locker rooms for three non-rev teams...that's exponentially more than they spent on the Al and the refresh of the men's bball locker room...just a theory...

locker rooms and training facility for three non-revenue teams,

where their success has created millions of dollars in publicity to the school and will continue to do so. 

Additionally, for the high school kids who  are considering and attending Marquette, many of them now are from geographical areas that were historically never considered a recruiting ground for terrific students and student athletes.

Having impressive facilities for basketball, AND other sports, has a positive impact on basketball recruits, because it is more attractive to go to a school that has successful sports all year round.

[GGGG]

I don't know enough if this is a blunder or not, but will say from where this project was dreamt of a couple years ago, to this announcement today, the optics are bad here for Lovell and MU. I'm not privy to the politics that went on, but in this game of musical chairs between the Bucks/MU/sponsors, MU appears to be the one without a chair.

Yeah regardless of who's at fault, this doesn't look great.  But not sure it really hurts Marquette.

[jficke13]

How about this for a possible scenario...Marquette couldn't figure out how to pay their share of the larger project; so, Bucks got tired of waiting because they wanted something open at the same time as the arena so they built their own, Aurora got disappointed with the final version of AHPRC because it was so small and they pulled out; so MU is left paying $24 million to pay for locker rooms for three non-rev teams...that's exponentially more than they spent on the Al and the refresh of the men's bball locker room...just a theory...

Got some kind of, you know, information, sources, insight into your "just a theory?" Perhaps the willingness to not use an anonymous screen name with 4 posts to its name to share?

Otherwise, kindly don't take offense when the rest of us disregard you the way we do any old egg on twitter that's yapping from beneath his tin foil hat.

[warriorchick]

How about this for a possible scenario...Marquette couldn't figure out how to pay their share of the larger project; so, Bucks got tired of waiting because they wanted something open at the same time as the arena so they built their own, Aurora got disappointed with the final version of AHPRC because it was so small and they pulled out; so MU is left paying $24 million to pay for locker rooms for three non-rev teams...that's exponentially more than they spent on the Al and the refresh of the men's bball locker room...just a theory...

Also, please provide us with the definition of  "exponentially more".  Unless it means "substantially less", you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/facilities/AlMcGuireCenter.html

[Dr. Blackheart]

Why is this a surprise?  The Michigan Avenue project was walked back a while ago, with Lovell even publically talking about a MU arena in its stead.  Why should Aurora carry that liability on their books until more definitive plans are set in motion? 

The athletic facility construction underway is planned to have future phases that may make more sense for Aurora, especially with the locale.  MU has a lot of other higher priorities in its master plan right now. Hell, McCormick will sit waiting for demo for a few years.

[jsglow]

Why is this a surprise?  The Michigan Avenue project was walked back a while ago, with Lovell even publically talking about a MU arena in its stead.  Why should Aurora carry that liability on their books until more definitive plans are set in motion? 

The athletic facility construction underway is planned to have future phases that may make more sense for Aurora, especially with the locale.  MU has a lot of other higher priorities in its master plan right now. Hell, McCormick will sit waiting for demo for a few years.

Yep, frankly that's my theory given what I do know about the McCormick teardown delay.  Wouldn't it be logical for MU/Aurora to move their sponsorship over to the Health & Wellness Center that will no doubt cost double the Athletic Research Center?  There are only so many bites at every apple.

Nah, let's just go with the theory that Mike is a complete idiot and doesn't know how to analyze a project or a priority list or maintain good relations with major players in the community.

[Its DJOver]

Yep, frankly that's my theory given what I do know about the McCormick teardown delay. Wouldn't it be logical for MU/Aurora to move their sponsorship over to the Health & Wellness Center that will no doubt cost double the Athletic Research Center?  There are only so many bites at every apple.

Nah, let's just go with the theory that Mike is a complete idiot and doesn't know how to analyze a project or a priority list or maintain good relations with major players in the community.

If you can say, what is the reason for the delay?  Based on my, admitted somewhat dated, info, that was the next project in the queue.

[jsglow]

If you can say, what is the reason for the delay?  Based on my, admitted somewhat dated, info, that was the next project in the queue.

It is. (That is, after the Athletic Research and the PA Program, both of which have broken ground as you know.)  The reason for the delay is that the financial budget to tear McCormick down is a component of the Health & Wellness Center construction budget.  So if the whole thing is costing $50-75MM (total guess), the first couple mill of that is to tear down the old girl.  I don't suppose they had to do it that way but even think about how things are done in the private sector.  You often don't clear the lot until you're ready to build.

Hope that helps.   

[GOO]

I am also wondering if Aurora's recent merger with Advocate Healthcare has anything to do with it. Their new partner may not have been too keen on this deal, especially given that Advocate whose footprint did not extend beyond Illinois borders, has no affinity to Marquette.

My first thought as well.  It is not uncommon for a merger to change priorities or to simply focus on the merger first, and the new board would have to approve anything of this sort.  Two, the Bucks seemed to focus in on doing this next to the arena as part of their practice facility and not with Marquette.  So, I'm not sure it was Marquette pulling the plug with Aurora, it would seem to be Aurora and Marquette getting together based upon what the Bucks were doing with Aurora's main competitor. Aurora was likely a reaction to the Bucks/Froedert deal in the works and the pulling the plug with Marquette is likely to be associated with the Merger.

The curent building will still be used by the basketball team for performance research/testing/development, etc. It is a nice plus for MU Hoops.

The idea that buying up vacant land around the university was a mistake is beyond laughable and discredits the original poster.  He/She doesn't know Marquette, the built up neighborhood or what is going on in downtown Milwaukee.  This maybe the last great opportunity for  MU to buy a large section of vacant land near the university.  It would have been a hugh mistake to not buy this land asap and let it go to another.  There simply is not vacant land near Marquette.  The decision to buy this land should not have taken a second to pursue this land, even if they had no idea what they'd ever do with it.  To not buy it would have raised a lot more questions in my mind and would have been a failure now and in the future.

[Its DJOver]

It is. (That is, after the Athletic Research and the PA Program, both of which have broken ground as you know.)  The reason for the delay is that the financial budget to tear McCormick down is a component of the Health & Wellness Center construction budget.  So if the whole thing is costing $50-75MM (total guess), the first couple mill of that is to tear down the old girl.  I don't suppose they had to do it that way but even think about how things are done in the private sector.  You often don't clear the lot until you're ready to build.

Hope that helps.   

Makes sense, and thanks.  I just know that I first heard that it was going to be demoed almost 2 years ago, and know that despite its sentimentality its not exactly up to current standards for living.  Coupled with the new living quarters opening this fall on Wells there shouldn't be a shortage of beds.

[GOO]

Yep, frankly that's my theory given what I do know about the McCormick teardown delay.  Wouldn't it be logical for MU/Aurora to move their sponsorship over to the Health & Wellness Center that will no doubt cost double the Athletic Research Center?  There are only so many bites at every apple.

Nah, let's just go with the theory that Mike is a complete idiot and doesn't know how to analyze a project or a priority list or maintain good relations with major players in the community.

Would give Aurora some nice signage along Wisconsin Ave, if this turns out to be the case.

[jsglow]

Makes sense, and thanks.  I just know that I first heard that it was going to be demoed almost 2 years ago, and know that despite its sentimentality its not exactly up to current standards for living.  Coupled with the new living quarters opening this fall on Wells there shouldn't be a shortage of beds.

There isn't a bed shortage and the rooms aren't going to be used this Fall.  MU is putting some offices on the first floor so it doesn't fall victim to the 'vacant building' law.

[cheebs09]

There isn't a bed shortage and the rooms aren't going to be used this Fall.  MU is putting some offices on the first floor so it doesn't fall victim to the 'vacant building' law.

Why don't they just crush the beer can now? Based on your post above, is it because the costs of demolition have to be tied to the new building they put there?

[warriorchick]

Why don't they just crush the beer can now? Based on your post above, is it because the costs of demolition have to be tied to the new building they put there?

Not have to be, are.  There is no budget to tear down the building.  It will be part of the new building's budget, which at this time either does not exist or is not in effect.

And I am no civil engineer, but I assume it is more cost-efficient to start construction immediately after demolition than to knock the old building down, fill up the hole, landscape the area and maintain it, only to dig the hole again a couple of years later for the new building.  I would think that the only cost of letting the building stand is some utilities for the first floor and the cleaning service.  It's not like MU has to pay property taxes on the building.

[cheebs09]

Not have to be, are.  There is no budget to tear down the building.  It will be part of the new building's budget, which at this time either does not exist or is not in effect.

And I am no civil engineer, but I assume it is more cost-efficient to start construction immediately after demolition than to knock the old building down, fill up the hole, landscape the area and maintain it, only to dig the hole again a couple of years later for the new building.  I would think that the only cost of letting the building stand is some utilities for the first floor and the cleaning service.  It's not like MU has to pay property taxes on the building.

That makes sense. Thanks!

As someone who graduated from the business school, I've been keeping a closer eye on this. It's an exciting point in time for the university in their development. I'm just a little worried based on how some things have gone, that timelines could be pushed back.

The master plan for the new Rec Center and Innovation Alley seem like very cool initiatives.

[brewcity77]

Yeah regardless of who's at fault, this doesn't look great.  But not sure it really hurts Marquette.

Aesthetically, it's a blunder. Maybe they can make lemonade out of it, but it was plenty public that the Bucks were not happy when MU announced the Aurora partnership.

So MU cuts the Aurora deal, which leads to the Bucks backing out and pursuing their own project, which leaves Marquette alone with the Michigan location. They follow that up by moving it to a smaller location and losing the partnership that started this all in the first place.

The timing of things also looks bad. When the arena funding came up, there were questions if Marquette should contribute. I remember hearing the Bucks response was not to worry about it. Then this falls through and the rent negotiations are more difficult than expected. Maybe it's unrelated and it was always going to be a slog, but on the surface, it's a blunder.

[checkmarq]

Based on the information I've heard from people who know some of the Aurora situation, it was going to be a hard sell for the university to agree to Aurora's requirements. Some of what was proposed included:
-the student health clinics running through Aurora's system (read: potentially no way for Marquette to refrain from providing contraceptives).
-no free care for students
-no more of the department run nurse, pa, or dental clinics, no pro bono clinics, and all staff would be Aurora.(the clinics are a huge learning opportunity for students and would be a big hit to those programs)

Secondly, heard from an engineer friend that there is a large steam pipe running through the land on Michigan which forced Marquette to reassess what they were hoping to build.

[Dish]

Aesthetically, it's a blunder. Maybe they can make lemonade out of it, but it was plenty public that the Bucks were not happy when MU announced the Aurora partnership.

So MU cuts the Aurora deal, which leads to the Bucks backing out and pursuing their own project, which leaves Marquette alone with the Michigan location. They follow that up by moving it to a smaller location and losing the partnership that started this all in the first place.

The timing of things also looks bad. When the arena funding came up, there were questions if Marquette should contribute. I remember hearing the Bucks response was not to worry about it. Then this falls through and the rent negotiations are more difficult than expected. Maybe it's unrelated and it was always going to be a slog, but on the surface, it's a blunder.

Brew did a better job than I did of explaining it, but this was my takeaway. Also the March public statement by MU that Aurora was still a partner for this project seems misguided or completely unnecessary based on the announcement yesterday.